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Rental dispute with Landlord I live with

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    #62
    zagmund
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭zagmund


    Take a photo of the gas & electricity meters before you move out, just so there's no doubt about the levels in case an extra large bill is presented.

    You should also think off the personal details about salary levels, education track, employee counts, geographical locations, etc . . .

    z


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    #63
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    Just a quick note - I Spoke to Threshold who advised she being the Landlord can keep my deposit as we had a verbal agreement when I moved in that the standard notice would be a month, so I should pay her the rent for Jan and let her keep the deposit of 250 as I broke the "agreement".

    I told threshold there is nothing in writing she said it doesn't matter, that If I acknowledge there was an agreement, then I have to let her keep the deposit. I found they were not helpful at all.

    Thanks all.


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    #64
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    Just a quick note - I Spoke to Threshold who advised she being the Landlord can keep my deposit as we had a verbal agreement when I moved in that the standard notice would be a month, so I should pay her the rent for Jan and let her keep the deposit of 250 as I broke the "agreement".

    I told threshold there is nothing in writing she said it doesn't matter, that If I acknowledge there was an agreement, then I have to let her keep the deposit. I found they were not helpful at all.

    Thanks all.

    That seems about right, except she isnt your landlord


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    #65
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    cerastes wrote: »
    That seems about right, except she isnt your landlord

    So what exactly is she sorry I am just confused


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    #66
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Was there a verbal agreement that you'd give a months notice? Do Threshold know you live with her and its not a tenant-landlord relationship?


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    #67
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    So what exactly is she sorry I am just confused

    Because she lives with you it's a licensee arrangement. Officially she is not a landlord & you are not a tenant. Therefore neither of you can claim the rights or the obligations that fall under the legalities of a landlord/tenant relationship.


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    #68
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    So what exactly is she sorry I am just confused

    She's the home owner, owner occupier?
    A landlord she is not, thats someone that rents out a property.
    drumswan wrote: »
    Was there a verbal agreement that you'd give a months notice? Do Threshold know you live with her and its not a tenant-landlord relationship?

    Dont see how that matters, they have a verbal agreement, but the OP is in a better position paying in arrears, if she's been there a while so long as there is no inability for the person to rel let immediately then they shoyuld be able to do that now anyway.
    OP should pay till when they stayed, really,they should be giving notice for the period they were paying for. If the person is being difficult, well Id leave, and as the OP has somewhere, either count the deposit into whats owed and tell her you'll leave it at that.
    What are these grounds? is it a large garden or a huge garden?
    I wouldnt bother with the reporting, but then again I havent lived with her, its a good threat to use, and may make things easier for the OP but then requires no follow up, lose the hassle and move on.


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    #69
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    To be honest I do not recall any verbal agreement advising my notice period. She put nothing in writing either so I would have thought nothing was binding, so I have no proof of that maintenance fee either. I told threshold I was sharing a house with my "landlord" as a lodger and another girl also shares, so I was a licensee. They said It depends how you pay your rent if monthly, then you must give a months notice etc,

    Also I forgot to mention a tenant or licensee Moved out before me In July, then my friend moved in, she kept money from the previous lodger out of her deposit for a "deep clean" of the room, which was spotless already, and kept additional money for bills even though the bills did not cost as to what she kept. She held I think 150 euro from the previous lodger, who was German, The German girl tried to follow the LL For it, she ignored her calls.


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    #70
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    cerastes wrote: »
    Dont see how that matters
    Well it doesnt really, but it might go some way to explaining why the "landlord" here is upset if the OP agreed to give her a months notice.


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    #71
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    cerastes wrote: »
    She's the home owner, owner occupier?
    A landlord she is not, thats someone that rents out a property.




    What are these grounds? is it a large garden or a huge garden?
    .

    Hi The grounds are just the maintenance fees for the complex so we rent a 3 bed house, in a complex that has a management company that charges 1000 for the year for maintenance, Myself and the other lodger pay 300 each, so that's 600, and the "Person who rents the room" or LL Pays the additional 400. So she splits the maintenance fee amongst us but she bares a higher cost by 100 as she pays 400, she uses that as if she's doing us a favour,

    Thanks


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    #72
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    drumswan wrote: »
    Well it doesnt really, but it might go some way to explaining why the "landlord" here is upset if the OP agreed to give her a months notice.

    That's never been agreed or discussed with me as far as I can recall.


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    #73
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    To be honest I do not recall any verbal agreement advising my notice period. She put nothing in writing either so I would have thought nothing was binding, so I have no proof of that maintenance fee either. I told threshold I was sharing a house with my "landlord" as a lodger and another girl also shares, so I was a licensee. They said It depends how you pay your rent if monthly, then you must give a months notice etc,

    Also I forgot to mention a tenant or licensee Moved out before me In July, then my friend moved in, she kept money from the previous lodger out of her deposit for a "deep clean" of the room, which was spotless already, and kept additional money for bills even though the bills did not cost as to what she kept. She held I think 150 euro from the previous lodger, who was German, The German girl tried to follow the LL For it, she ignored her calls.

    Generally speaking, the period of payment will indicate the notice period.
    In the current climate, I suspect she wont have trouble re letting.
    Some of this should have rang alarm bells if they didnt have a genuine reason to withold some of it.
    drumswan wrote: »
    Well it doesnt really, but it might go some way to explaining why the "landlord" here is upset if the OP agreed to give her a months notice.

    I mean, it doesnt matter if it was only a verbal agreement, it would still be an agreement, I can understand why they might be annoyed but there are possibly other issues. Having said that, I said the OP should pay up to what she has stayed and I mean including bills, the grounds fee seems a bit irregular and may account for any outstanding small amount, as the owner shouldn't have gotten into a being payed in arrears arrangement.
    While Id agree someone has some right to notice, if they are being a dick about things, its only a room letting they should be then making something more formal if thats what they want, which I wouldnt advise for a person letting rooms in their own home.


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    #74
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    That's never been agreed or discussed with me as far as I can recall.

    Then its irrelevant and what Threshold are telling you is nonsense. Not for the first time based on threads on here. You have no obligation to a notice period.


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    #75
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    I wonder do social welfare know shes getting 1150 a month no doubt she wouldnt be getting a payment off these if they knew that, op dont let her bully you do exactly what you said you would she had no right to keep your 250 deposit money either!


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    #76
    Meathlass
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Meathlass


    You are a licensee, you are not bound by RTA that Threshold were talking about.

    You are nothing more than a house guest and have no rights. A licensee could go home today, move out and not give any notice and they are perfectly entitled to do so. Conversely you could go home today and find that the owner-occupied wants you to move out tomorrow.

    TBH you've just confused yourself and this thread by consulting Threshold who haven't given you correct information.


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    #77
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    The maintenance fees for the complex so we rent a 3 bed house, in a complex that has a management company that charges 1000 for the year for maintenance, Myself and the other lodger pay 300 each, so that's 600, and the "Person who rents the room" or LL Pays the additional 400. So she splits the maintenance fee amongst us but she bares a higher cost by 100 as she pays 400, she uses that as if she's doing us a favour,

    Thanks

    That's a bit cheeky (to do that so blatantly)! Her house, her fees.


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    #78
    selous
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭selous


    It's still just house sharing, see her as another girl in the house, you DONT pay management fees, amenity bills yes, Management fee is owners own baby and if bins are communal, you don't pay them either, they're included in the Mgt fees.
    She has no prob being a Bee-atch to you, and you want to leave on good terms, hmmm. sometimes its nice to be nice, other times....it's not.
    Best of luck to you,


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    #79
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    Thank you Mrs OBumble I wondered the same as she has no income only our rent can she still collect social welfare. I think she can

    On estimate, myself and my friend, pay her 1150 per month in rent (She charges my friend 600) and about 70 each on bills, and then that maintenance fee of 600 (combined 300x2) Annually she would collect an estimated 16k on us through rent and bills etc, so if the 7500 is tax free, she will have to pay tax to about 2k on unearned income under case v (I may not be right in this so correct me If I am wrong taxed at 25%...

    So anyway what I am saying is I don't want to go down the route of threats to welfare or revenue etc as I could look like a fool (I am a trainee after all I am no tax expert) but I will if I have to. She is not an accountant but a project manager so she doesn't have an accountancy background.

    I think Mrs OBumble is right as to maybe I should stick to the facts and the facts are legally she cannot hold my deposit or demand Feb rent. Notice periods are not agreed, in writing I am not a tenant per se. I can leave when I want and pay what is actually owed which is Jan Rent and bills.

    I will take photographic evidence of the room to prove zero damage and move ASAP, Tonight and tomorrow. Then Friday pay what is owed and send her an email detailing why I am paying what I am paying.

    She will FREAK OUT. I Know this. She is a powerful lady, so I was considering contacting threshold also, to maybe get a mediator if it comes to this.

    Thanks guys. x

    OP, she's a failed big four alumnus who is now unemployed. Having worked in Big Four for the guts of a decade, and now a client, I would consider a manager as the general dogsbody - the information gatherer. If I have to answer my phone, it better be to a director or SM - or if someone fvcked up, a grovelling partner. The point I'm making is that she's about as powerful as my dog walker.

    You've got some great advice here. Use it and stop looking for excuses. You owe her for January and bills. No more. No less. I would be paying her the rent owed, less the deposit as she is clearly going to keep that.

    Then, for good measure I would be contacting Revenue and social welfare with your suspicions. You don't need to prove if your suspicions are right. They will investigate.

    Then move on with your


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    #80
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    Just a quick note - I Spoke to Threshold who advised she being the Landlord can keep my deposit as we had a verbal agreement when I moved in that the standard notice would be a month, so I should pay her the rent for Jan and let her keep the deposit of 250 as I broke the "agreement".

    I told threshold there is nothing in writing she said it doesn't matter, that If I acknowledge there was an agreement, then I have to let her keep the deposit. I found they were not helpful at all.

    Thanks all.

    Threshold !!! this is the same agency that was telling a tenant who was about to be evicted on a RTE documentary before Christmas that they could overhold which meant they could continue to stay in the apartment until the landlord had to bring a case to the PRTB to get the tenant out.
    I'd be taking their advice with a pinch of salt. You've just confused yourself even more by contacting them.

    Pay her the rent owed, less the deposit, she is trying to screw you over and bully you into giving her the money.

    You also should also contact the revenue about your suspicions


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    #81
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    Ok. About to face the big clean now and take some pictures. Thanks for the advice i will use it, in reference to confusing the thread by calling threshold I don't agree I rang them to ask for back up essentially if the s*** hits the fan and the lady said I owed the deposit end of story I explained all, she said regardless I owed it? I rang citizens advice they said legally I don't, enough of the ringing people for ME today!

    tbh I am happy enough to trust boards on this she's getting rent and bills that's it for jan and minus the 250 which should be 550 only she paid "maintenance" with the 300.

    Thanks all
    X


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    #82
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Powerfairy, threshold advise on tenancy law, which doesn't apply in your situation that's why you got a different answer.


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    #83
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    OP, I'm ex Big Four, if she banged on about you in the future in one of those firms, she would be looked at as an idiot. It would be seen as totally unprofessional on her part. I can imagine if I did it now, my former colleagues would think I was off my game, I'd simply look ridiculous. I wouldn't let this worry you.


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    #84
    ...__...
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    I would tell her you are moving out on saturday just to keep the peace then on Friday send the rent minus the deposit and walk out the door never looking back.


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    #85
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    ...__... wrote: »
    I would tell her you are moving out on saturday just to keep the peace then on Friday send the rent minus the deposit and walk out the door never looking back.

    Thanks a mill, I am actually moving tonight :) Did a huge Huge clean last night until 2 in the morning!! Even shampoo'd the carpet in any patches where were stains, (That were there before I moved as I used a giant rug in the room that hid the floor)

    I packed up my stuff put it in the garage, so today she has 3 viewings, When they are over after work I am getting my friend over to dismantle my desk and bits and then Cya :) still guilty about the paying minus the deposit but that's just me being a fool. I am soft.

    Her strategy last night was to be nice and say she will miss me, then I felt super guilty, but no its an act. shes getting 400 max. :) Thanks again x


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    #86
    BeatNikDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭BeatNikDub


    Stick to your guns OP :)


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    #87
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    Powerfairy wrote: »

    Her strategy last night was to be nice and say she will miss me, then I felt super guilty, but no its an act. shes getting 400 max. :) Thanks again x
    It is an act and don't buy it, You have to remember that the previous tenant before you got left out of pocket as well.
    If she pulls any stunts like refusing to give you back your stuff don't give in to her demands!


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    #88
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    Hi Guys

    So the time has come, to pay the rent, (I got paid today) & the Landlord has emailed my WORK, Saying that my clean is not satisfactory and she will be getting a cleaner in at a cost of 30 euro, or I Have to call today and do it again myself. ITS A TRAP. If I go to that house she will lose the plot with me

    I Have to do the bank transfer now, Should I pay her the rent 550 - minus deposit of 250 & plus bills of 100 = 400 & then an additional 30 for cleaning?

    Should I Respond to her email.

    The next few days are going to be rough. Advice would be great. Afraid to reply to her emails as if I engage with her, it could get nasty from her side...


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    #89
    Powerfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Powerfairy


    Sorry Guys I was going to email her this if its ok let me know

    Hi

    Unfortunately, I can’t clean the room as my father has his scan today and I am working from home.

    I spoke to citizen’s advice & got legal advice re the leave of notice, my rights as a lodger (not a tenant as it is owner occupied) and also the fact that there is no signed contract in place.

    Legally you are not in any way allowed to keep my deposit unless I caused actual damage, which I did not, and I have taken many photos to affirm this fact. I have been legally advised to pay the rent minus the deposit, which I will be doing today. Regarding rent alone, you are getting €300 (550 – 250).

    Bills are estimated as 100 which you agreed to. I will pay you for cleaning no problem @ €30 which is fine. I really did clean everything as best I could and if I was moving in, I would be happy with its current condition.

    In all, you will receive €430 tonight.

    Also you have a person who is ready & willing to move in tomorrow so you are at no financial loss whatsoever.

    I am being more than fair here.

    Thanks a million & I wish you all the best for the future.

    <Snip>


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    #90
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    Powerfairy wrote: »
    Hi Guys

    So the time has come, to pay the rent, (I got paid today) & the Landlord has emailed my WORK, Saying that my clean is not satisfactory and she will be getting a cleaner in at a cost of 30 euro, or I Have to call today and do it again myself. ITS A TRAP. If I go to that house she will lose the plot with me

    I Have to do the bank transfer now, Should I pay her the rent 550 - minus deposit of 250 & plus bills of 100 = 400 & then an additional 30 for cleaning?

    Should I Respond to her email.

    The next few days are going to be rough. Advice would be great. Afraid to reply to her emails as if I engage with her, it could get nasty from her side...


    What a horrible woman just pay the 400 dont be afraid of her your paying what you owe and nothing more, shes only trying to get an extra 30 off you, she seems like a right money grabber! I presume all of your things are gone from there?


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    #91
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Powerfairy, don't reply to her, just pay your rent & bills owed - do not pay her the 30 euro.

    Get on with your life and look after your Dad - she is not important right now.


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