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Why is tipping not part of irish culture ?

1246

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭FrStone


    feargale wrote: »
    People on the receiving end of tips need to understand that a tip is gratuitous, not a legal obligation. Be grateful for the tips you get, not resentful of those who don't tip.

    I'm not resentful of those who choose not to tip, I'm just trying my best to ensure non tippers don't put another order in for delivery again. If someone doesn't tip, I generally break even on the delivery out to them, so as you can see I do my best to get that person to go elsewhere or to actually come and collect it themselves.
    feargale wrote: »
    You have no right to penalise those who don't tip.

    That's for me to decide. Next time your passing fast food outlets, look around and see if they have a sign up looking for drivers. Drivers are very difficult to get so if someone wants me to drive for them, it will be done on my terms.

    Also why would one tip if they don't receive a better service than those who don't. Not discriminating leads to the free rider problem.

    feargale wrote: »
    In the interests of my business I wouldn't give someone with your attitude to tipping a job cleaning toilets.

    That's well and good, but thankfully I've no interest in cleaning toilets anyway.

    The whole problem would be alleviated if tipping became like it is in the US where you are pretty much obligated to tip, or if no one tipped at all and jobs like doing deliveries were paid properly. This half and half option leads to no one really benefiting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Got a take away deliver tonight. The total was 17.50, paid 20 and your wan didn't have change spent ages looking for change probably hoping I'd say keep it, got €2 back and she said she'd be back with .50. Had to say keep it.
    Hate people like that. They should know if your bill is 17.50 you will pay the correct amount €18 €20 or €50. So have 2.50 and €30 for the 50.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Why do we not have a culture of tipping in Ireland ?
    In places like the states your expected to tip for everything like services in restaurants, cafes, hotels ect.

    My uncle was in New York recently and didn't leave a tip. So the manager followed him out and aggressively demanded to know why he didn't tip.

    I have a cousin who is a waiter in the states and earns $1000+ per week because of all the extra money he makes in tips.

    So why don't we tip like the states.

    Because it's complete bollox.
    If you have any other questions, shoot me a pm.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Pay for my taxi with Hailo
    Pay for my take away with just eat app

    Settle up the card when I get paid. I know I can add a tip with Hailo but they take 12% of that which is a bit mean.

    One day few enough of us will pay cash. It cuts out the fumbling in the dark for aaaaaaages hoping I'll tell them to keep it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭omen80


    FrStone wrote: »
    I'm not resentful of those who choose not to tip, I'm just trying my best to ensure non tippers don't put another order in for delivery again. If someone doesn't tip, I generally break even on the delivery out to them, so as you can see I do my best to get that person to go elsewhere or to actually come and collect it themselves.
    What an idiotic attitude. You're living in Ireland. You get paid by your employer. Just because you deliver something doesn't mean you're entitled to a tip. Cop the f*ck on.


    FrStone wrote: »
    That's for me to decide. Next time your passing fast food outlets, look around and see if they have a sign up looking for drivers. Drivers are very difficult to get so if someone wants me to drive for them, it will be done on my terms.
    It's for your employer to decide.

    FrStone wrote: »
    The whole problem would be alleviated if tipping became like it is in the US where you are pretty much obligated to tip, or if no one tipped at all and jobs like doing deliveries were paid properly. This half and half option leads to no one really benefiting.
    There is no problem here. There is only a problem when people like you start expecting tips as the norm. The whole idea of tipping is completely unnecessary here. We have minimum wage which is above what it is in other countries. It's not up to the customer to pay your wages. I used to work in IT support for years. When I fixed someones PC I didn't get a tip, I didn't expect one either. But just because you deliver fast food means you get a tip?! Either find a better paying job or be grateful for the one you have.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Maybe it's different where I go in Dublin, but it seems like tipping *is* part of the culture here.

    The two barber shops I've been too both had out tip jars of some sort and people regularly gave. Many of the restaurants I go to (outside of fast food) frequently have a tip jar or whatever. I'm pretty sure I've paid with a credit card before and it had a separate line so I could add a tip. Eddie Rockets has some dish sitting next to the register for tips.

    Anyway, I love pizza...and I order it a lot. I guess delivery driver turn-over is pretty high in Dublin, but even still, I recognize almost all of the pizza guys that deliver to me. I always tip.

    It's like when you pay extra when booking your flight so you can pick the nicer seats and ensure you get to sit with your significant other. You pay a little extra and you get a little more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    omen80 wrote: »
    What an idiotic attitude. You're living in Ireland. You get paid by your employer. Just because you deliver something doesn't mean you're entitled to a tip. Cop the f*ck on.




    It's for your employer to decide.



    There is no problem here. There is only a problem when people like you start expecting tips as the norm. The whole idea of tipping is completely unnecessary here. We have minimum wage which is above what it is in other countries. It's not up to the customer to pay your wages. I used to work in IT support for years. When I fixed someones PC I didn't get a tip, I didn't expect one either. But just because you deliver fast food means you get a tip?! Either find a better paying job or be grateful for the one you have.

    I work in IT too - and if I have 8 different 'URGENT' requests, it's up to me to decide which order I take them. Admittedly, our 'customers' are other departments within the company, but I'll absolutely give preferential treatment within the confines of the priority assigned to the tickets.

    It seems like common sense. When the guy who is a dick comes and says, 'FIX THIS THING FOR ME NOW' - sure, it's my job, so I'll fix it. but if I have five other people saying the same thing, well, I'll get around to helping him last.


  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭omen80


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I work in IT too - and if I have 8 different 'URGENT' requests, it's up to me to decide which order I take them. Admittedly, our 'customers' are other departments within the company, but I'll absolutely give preferential treatment within the confines of the priority assigned to the tickets.

    It seems like common sense. When the guy who is a dick comes and says, 'FIX THIS THING FOR ME NOW' - sure, it's my job, so I'll fix it. but if I have five other people saying the same thing, well, I'll get around to helping him last.

    That's fair enough in that situation. But someone who doesn't tip isn't the same as the guy who is the dick in your example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I work in IT too - and if I have 8 different 'URGENT' requests, it's up to me to decide which order I take them. Admittedly, our 'customers' are other departments within the company, but I'll absolutely give preferential treatment within the confines of the priority assigned to the tickets.

    It seems like common sense. When the guy who is a dick comes and says, 'FIX THIS THING FOR ME NOW' - sure, it's my job, so I'll fix it. but if I have five other people saying the same thing, well, I'll get around to helping him last.

    That is kinda different. You're setting your order based on the customers attitude towards you not out of an exception of which customer will tip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭Nadser


    I've a mate who runs a chipper. One night she was short a driver and decided to do deliveries herself. She said she couldn't believe the amount she made in tips - way more than she gets paid as manager. I swear she seriously considered packing it in and being a delivery driver herself!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    UCDVet wrote: »

    It's like when you pay extra when booking your flight so you can pick the nicer seats and ensure you get to sit with your significant other. You pay a little extra and you get a little more.

    It's not

    Tipping is a reward for above standard service not an optional extra to ensure above standard service.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    omen80 wrote: »
    That's fair enough in that situation. But someone who doesn't tip isn't the same as the guy who is the dick in your example.

    It's kind of the same thing.

    I have four orders to deliver - A, B, C and D. I know A never tips, B always tips and I don't know anything about C and D. Now, it'll depend on where they are located on the map - I'd still want an efficient route - but I'm going to TRY and get to B first. I know B, he's a regular, he orders the same thing, he recognizes me, and he always gives a nice tip.

    Guy A - nothing wrong with Guy A. He orders a lot, but he never tips. I'm not going to spit in his food or anything, he doesn't *have* to tip me. But I also don't have to go out of my way to try and get his food to him first. I'll probably go to him last, unless it's impractical not to.

    I want to keep guy B happy, because he takes care of me.
    Person C and D - I don't recognize them, so I dunno what to think. I'm neutral towards them. If I do get a tip, I'll remember them for next time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Jester252 wrote: »
    It's not

    Tipping is a reward for above standard service not an optional extra to ensure above standard service.

    That might be YOUR definition of what tipping is. But it's not the definition you'd find in a dictionary (or at least, not the only definition you'd find). And you're free to tip or not tip as you see fit.

    Still, it's naive to think there isn't a symbiotic relationship between customers and service providers. If you sit around and wait for 'above standard service', you may never get it. And, on the flip side, if someone like me gives a tip the first time, maybe I *won't* get preferential treatment. And that's fine. Both come with risks.

    I can say, with 100% confidence and sincerity, there are situations where giving a tip for an initial, perfectly average, service results in better service. For me, when it comes to certain things, I'm happy to take that gamble.


  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭omen80


    UCDVet wrote: »
    It's kind of the same thing.

    I have four orders to deliver - A, B, C and D. I know A never tips, B always tips and I don't know anything about C and D. Now, it'll depend on where they are located on the map - I'd still want an efficient route - but I'm going to TRY and get to B first. I know B, he's a regular, he orders the same thing, he recognizes me, and he always gives a nice tip.

    Guy A - nothing wrong with Guy A. He orders a lot, but he never tips. I'm not going to spit in his food or anything, he doesn't *have* to tip me. But I also don't have to go out of my way to try and get his food to him first. I'll probably go to him last, unless it's impractical not to.

    I want to keep guy B happy, because he takes care of me.
    Person C and D - I don't recognize them, so I dunno what to think. I'm neutral towards them. If I do get a tip, I'll remember them for next time.

    Nope, it's not the same thing. And your last post is a great example of the bad attitude when you feel you are entitled to a tip.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    omen80 wrote: »
    Nope, it's not the same thing. And your last post is a great example of the problems when you feel you are entitled to a tip.

    1.) Nobody is entitled to a tip. I don't feel that way and I haven't made that claim.
    2.) It is the same. My reasons for liking or disliking people are my own....but I don't think they're much different than everyone else's. If I don't know you, you're neutral to me. If you do something nice - I like you a little more. If you do something mean - I dislike you a little more. If you're attractive a female, well, I'm sorry, but I like a little more.

    So, whether I dislike someone at work because they talk too much in meetings or don't do the work they are meant to, or because they make me wait for 4 minutes before they answer their door, it's all the same to me. And if someone gives me a tip, well, I'm sorry, I like money....so I like them a bit more.

    When I have a choice in deciding, I'm going to give preferential treatment to those that I like. Whether it be because they're attractive, friendly, or because they tip. Depending on my job and the situation I might not have any control, or I might have a lot. But I'll try to take care of people I like and I'll do the minimum required for people I dislike.

    It was true when I was a paperboy. Most people - I didn't know, I delivered their paper. Whatever. Some people were extra nice, and I would make extra sure they got their paper all they way to their door - on an extra windy day I'd even stick it in their door or something. A few people, I didn't like, for whatever reason. I toss their paper on their lawn and called it a day. I did my job, but within the limits of my job, I treated people how I felt they deserved to be treated.

    I've worked a lot of jobs, and it's never really any different. Some jobs give me more or less freedom, but it's only human nature. I'm always going to prefer doing things for people I like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Jester252 wrote: »
    That is kinda different. You're setting your order based on the customers attitude towards you not out of an exception of which customer will tip.

    Attitude is expressed in many ways.

    Someone who kindly thanks me and goes out of their way to be friendly, well, they're expressing a nice attitude. I'll appreciate that, and I'll prefer them.

    Someone who kindly thanks me *with a tip* is also expressing a nice attitude. I'll appreciate that, and I'll prefer them.

    To be clear - I don't expect a tip. I'm not entitled to a tip. But if someone chooses to give me a tip, I'll appreciate the attitude that they are expressing with that tip. I'll prefer them. If someone doesn't tip, I don't think any less of them for it. I'm still happy to do my job, after all, I'm being paid. I'll deliver the pizza, and I'll do it happily.

    But if I have two deliveries to make and nobody has dictated the order, of course, I'm going to go to the guy who tips first.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    omen80 wrote: »
    Nope, it's not the same thing. And your last post is a great example of the bad attitude when you feel you are entitled to a tip.

    I don't think you'll find many in Ireland that feel entitled to a tip. They may treat people who tip them better but that's it. North America is a different story.

    Take the delivery driver example. It might help not to look at it as a tip, even the person tipping looks at it usually as paying forward for slightly special treatment. The driver is basically a delivery company and there's a minimum delivery fee (for most takeouts) which will see your goods arrive in a reasonable time but some people pay extra and get faster shipping. Seems fair to me. Why should they guy paying an extra few bucks quid (note to self: you're still Irish) not get faster delivery?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    UCDVet wrote: »
    That might be YOUR definition of what tipping is. But it's not the definition you'd find in a dictionary (or at least, not the only definition you'd find). And you're free to tip or not tip as you see fit.

    Tipping has and always will be defined as a reward for a service beyond the expectation.

    You need a better dictionary.
    Still, it's naive to think there isn't a symbiotic relationship between customers and service providers. If you sit around and wait for 'above standard service', you may never get it. And, on the flip side, if someone like me gives a tip the first time, maybe I *won't* get preferential treatment. And that's fine. Both come with risks.

    No they both don't come with risks.

    If you are waiting for the above average service, you still get the average services.

    If you tip on an average service your gambling on the hope for a excellent service in the future. Also you've set a groundwork that you'll tip of an average service.
    I can say, with 100% confidence and sincerity, there are situations where giving a tip for an initial, perfectly average, service results in better service. For me, when it comes to certain things, I'm happy to take that gamble.

    I can say, with 100% confidence and sincerity, there are situations where giving a tip for an initial, perfectly average, service results in the same service. For me, when it comes to certain things, I'm not happy to take that gamble.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Attitude is expressed in many ways.

    Someone who kindly thanks me and goes out of their way to be friendly, well, they're expressing a nice attitude. I'll appreciate that, and I'll prefer them.

    Someone who kindly thanks me *with a tip* is also expressing a nice attitude. I'll appreciate that, and I'll prefer them.

    To be clear - I don't expect a tip. I'm not entitled to a tip. But if someone chooses to give me a tip, I'll appreciate the attitude that they are expressing with that tip. I'll prefer them. If someone doesn't tip, I don't think any less of them for it. I'm still happy to do my job, after all, I'm being paid. I'll deliver the pizza, and I'll do it happily.

    But if I have two deliveries to make and nobody has dictated the order, of course, I'm going to go to the guy who tips first.

    That is completely different to your other post, you where equating a non tipper to an a$$hole. Also the fact in deciding the order you knew the attitude of the people involved. You don't know who is going to tip?

    Also as a deliver person you would lose more money than you make it tips plaining your root based on who might tip.

    Most deliver people plan their stops in order to achieve the least driving time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    a


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  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭FrStone


    omen80 wrote: »
    What an idiotic attitude. You're living in Ireland. You get paid by your employer. Just because you deliver something doesn't mean you're entitled to a tip. Cop the f*ck on.

    You can tell me to cop on all you like, it doesn't change the fact that I will continue to serve those who tip before those who don't. Most drivers will do the same. People will try and be rational.
    omen80 wrote: »
    It's for your employer to decide.

    First off most delivery drivers are not employees they are self employed and provide a service to the takeaway. The only exception to this would be if you have a company car etc. However in most places you drive your own car and have to cover petrol, wear and tear, insurance etc. There is no minimum wage if you are not an employee. You can earn significantly above minimum wage but this is purely on the basis that you get tips. In most delivery service jobs if you don't get tips you will probably earn enough to cover your expenses.

    Thankfully around 80% do tip.

    Seecondly, the only person it is up to to decide is me. I've delivered for quite a few takeaways and they have always been told that it's my way of the high way.
    omen80 wrote: »
    Either find a better paying job or be grateful for the one you have.

    Nobody does takeaway deliveries full time it is just something on the side as the money isn't in it. I've given it up a few years ago, however I still get calls asking will I cover if they are stuck. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, however it is always on my terms.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    FrStone wrote: »
    here is no minimum wage if you are not an employee. You can earn significantly above minimum wage but this is purely on the basis that you get tips. In most delivery service jobs if you don't get tips you will probably earn enough to cover your expenses.

    Thankfully around 80% do tip.

    If they charge say 1.50 to 2 euro delivery fee which is pretty standard does the driver get that?

    I always thought the takeaway gets the food money and the driver gets the delivery money.

    Am I wrong? Just a handful of deliveries per hour would easily get you to minimum wage


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭FrStone


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    If they charge say 1.50 to 2 euro delivery fee which is pretty standard does the driver get that?

    I always thought the takeaway gets the food money and the driver gets the delivery money.

    Am I wrong? Just a handful of deliveries per hour would easily get you to minimum wage

    In Cork generally delivery would be free where. What usually happens is you get paid a flat rate of €50 for the night (7 hours), in a night you might deliver 30 deliveries and you get paid another €1 per delivery by the takeaway.

    You pay for your own petrol and you provide your own car, I also pay my insurance company a bit extra to make sure I'm covered (most don't..). Your responsible to pay your own tax too.

    So as you can see if you didn't get paid any tips you definitely wouldn't reach minimum wage. However, seeing as most tip it can be worth your while.

    I've read previously on boards about different people who do the deliver and some would have a lower flat rate but may work in a busier takeaway etc. Some trip could take me twenty minutes return.

    In essence the driver buys your order from the takeaway and then charges you for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Tipping has and always will be defined as a reward for a service beyond the expectation.

    You need a better dictionary.

    Really?

    define: tip
    noun
    noun: tip; plural noun: tips
    1.
    a sum of money given to someone as a reward for a service.

    That's from Google. You can go to Google and type 'define: tip' and see the definition provided. It says it is a 'reward for a service'. It says nothing about the quality of the service. It could be poor service or great service or average service. If you give someone money as a reward for that level of service it is A TIP.

    Dictionary.com says:
    a small present of money given directly to someone for performing a service or menial task; gratuity:

    No mention of the quality or level of service in relation to expectations. A tip is simply money given for performing a service or menial task.

    Dictionary.Cambridge.org says:
    tip noun [C] (PAYMENT)

    a small amount of money given to someone who has provided you with a service, in addition to the official payment and for their personal use:

    Again, no mention of the level of service. Only that a service was provided and that the payment is in addition to the official payment and for their personal use.

    collinsdictionary.com says:
    noun

    a payment given for services in excess of the standard charge; gratuity

    Again, no mention of the level of service received. ONLY that the service was provided and that the payment is in excess of the standard charge.

    Please, provide an example of a better dictionary than the sources I've listed.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Greedy Dublin takeaways charging me delivery fees when the Corkonians get it free :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Jester252 wrote: »
    That is completely different to your other post, you where equating a non tipper to an a$$hole. Also the fact in deciding the order you knew the attitude of the people involved. You don't know who is going to tip?

    Also as a deliver person you would lose more money than you make it tips plaining your root based on who might tip.

    Most deliver people plan their stops in order to achieve the least driving time.

    I'm not equating a non-tipper to an a$$hole. I'm saying I prefer people that I prefer and tipping probably means I'll prefer you.

    I've also said that, I'll give preferential treatment only to the degree that it makes sense. If I have two deliveries - ignoring very extreme traffic patterns, it will take just as long to go 'A - B' as it will 'B - A'. The driving time would be the same, whether person A gets their pizza first or person B does, is entirely up to me. If I have three and it makes sense to go A - B - C, I could often just as easily go C - B - A without adding time or distance - so again, deciding A over C is up to me. And sure, maybe lots of times I won't do anything differently, but sometimes I will.

    And no, I'm not psychic. I don't know who will tip. But I don't need to. It's enough to work on averages. If, on average, 20% of houses tip me and I get an order from a new house, I can estimate a 20% chance of receiving a tip. If I know from past experience that the house at 118 Leeson Street has tipped me every single time I've delivered them - well, I can estimate something like a 95% of getting a tip from them again - as well as having a desire to help them out.

    So, given the choice, I'm going to try and get the pizza to 118 Leeson Street first. Then, I'll go to the new house. If the new house tips me, well, they'll move up on my list of customers. If they don't, they won't.

    We're using a fictitious example of delivering pizzas - but it's just as true in a crowded bar, only without concern for traffic patterns and petrol costs. If I'm making drinks and I've got seven customers all up to the bar, who am I going to serve first? If one of them is a regular who always tips me, I'm going to serve him or her first. Because, why wouldn't I? It's not like everyone is in a single file line. Sure, I'll get around to everyone, and I'll do my job like I'm meant to....nobody has to tip me. But why wouldn't I look out for the guy who is looking out for me?

    Particularly in a crowded bar where I might not even know what order those customers arrived in. At that point, I'm left to either randomly select a customer *or* go to the guy I know and like first. Of course I'm going with the regular who tips. Followed by the regulars I like, followed by people I don't know, followed by regulars I dislike.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    FrStone wrote: »
    In Cork generally delivery would be free where. What usually happens is you get paid a flat rate of €50 for the night (7 hours), in a night you might deliver 30 deliveries and you get paid another €1 per delivery by the takeaway.

    You pay for your own petrol and you provide your own car, I also pay my insurance company a bit extra to make sure I'm covered (most don't..). Your responsible to pay your own tax too.

    So as you can see if you didn't get paid any tips you definitely wouldn't reach minimum wage. However, seeing as most tip it can be worth your while.

    I've read previously on boards about different people who do the deliver and some would have a lower flat rate but may work in a busier takeaway etc. Some trip could take me twenty minutes return.

    In essence the driver buys your order from the takeaway and then charges you for it.

    Question for you, if you don't mind....

    If you don't get any tips and end up below the minimum wage for a night/week/pay period - does the employer have a legal obligation to pay you so you hit the minimum wage? Or do you just get whatever you get.

    (I'm guessing this doesn't happen very often / ever? But I was curious)


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭FrStone


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Question for you, if you don't mind....

    If you don't get any tips and end up below the minimum wage for a night/week/pay period - does the employer have a legal obligation to pay you so you hit the minimum wage? Or do you just get whatever you get.

    (I'm guessing this doesn't happen very often / ever? But I was curious)

    It had happened once, you get what you get. Your not really an employee so there is no legal obligation to increase it.

    Also like the takeaway doesn't know how much you spent on petrol or how much tips you earned.

    Most takeaway drivers are considered self employed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Supposing a house orders 5 pizzas.

    You arrive to the house, it's a big house party of UCC students. They take the pizzas and slam the door on you without paying. House full of lads and you're on your own so not a whole lot you can do.

    Will the owner charge the driver for them? Even if the driver tells the truth the owner would say not my problem, they are probably your buddies and you must pay?

    Well first thing you'd do is call the police.

    And after that presumably the driver has to cover the loss.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Question for you, if you don't mind....

    If you don't get any tips and end up below the minimum wage for a night/week/pay period - does the employer have a legal obligation to pay you so you hit the minimum wage? Or do you just get whatever you get.

    (I'm guessing this doesn't happen very often / ever? But I was curious)

    Who decided that the person delivering was self employed rather than an employee ?

    If as a student and deliveries were your only source of income, delivering for only one take away, whose owner told you who to deliver to.......that makes you an employee in my eyes.

    In slower periods it may have been worth more to you as an employee.
    Guessing it was the take away owner's choice which suited him\her


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭FrStone


    Flem31 wrote: »
    Who decided that the person delivering was self employed rather than an employee ?

    If as a student and deliveries were your only source of income, delivering for only one take away, whose owner told you who to deliver to.......that makes you an employee in my eyes.

    In slower periods it may have been worth more to you as an employee.
    Guessing it was the take away owner's choice which suited him\her

    Well generally one of the Revenue guidelines for deciding if a perswon is self employed is "does the person provide their own tools" and a takeaway driver provides there own car and fuel and don't claim mileage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    FrStone wrote: »
    Well generally one of the Revenue guidelines for deciding if a perswon is self employed is "does the person provide their own tools" and a takeaway driver provides there own car and fuel and don't claim mileage.

    That is only one of multiple indicators and anyone can pass one indicator or even a few but fail numerous others.
    Re the mileage, that suits the takeaway and is convenient for them.

    The main indicator is probably .....who decides where you deliver and to whom.....do you take those instructions from one person or a number of people (your final contact is the customer but he didn't order from you in the first place).

    Personally, I think if you were an employee you would make more money, because the one part that the takeaway owner can use to reduce his employee\mileage costs is the cash tips.......but he doesn't have control over that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    I tip based on the quality of service I receive. I did my time waitressing in my younger days, so I know what it's like. Some people will never tip regardless of how great the service is. Americans, in my experience, are the stingiest tippers and they will run you ragged getting them umpteen glasses of tap water.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Desolation Of Smug


    You don't leave a tip because the service was brilliant, you leave a big tip because the next time you go there, the service will be brilliant. Tipping 101.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,986 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Ive been to America a good few times and the Servers provide a good service whenever ive went out to restaurants.

    If you eat out in America you have to tip because its frowned upon if you dont.

    I only tip if I get great service over here.

    Why should I tip a Taxi man that takes the long way to get to my destination?

    Btw some chippers charge for delivery in Co.Cork.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    WE have good unions in ireland,
    wages are lower in the usa ,
    you can still tip in restaurants, and tip taxi drivers if you want.
    many states in the usa have very low minimum wages .
    The point of a tip is you only tip if you get good service.
    otherwise just pay what,s on the bill.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf




  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Why do we not have a culture of tipping in Ireland ?
    In places like the states your expected to tip for everything like services in restaurants, cafes, hotels ect.

    My uncle was in New York recently and didn't leave a tip. So the manager followed him out and aggressively demanded to know why he didn't tip.

    I have a cousin who is a waiter in the states and earns $1000+ per week because of all the extra money he makes in tips.

    So why don't we tip like the states.

    In America, why should employers pay their staff when they can guilt-trip the public into doing it instead.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Minimum wage is the main answer.

    Traditionally in the US there was no or a very low minimum wage, people that worked in service industry depended on tips to live. In Ireland this is not the case.

    I like the tip culture of the US mainly because it results in you getting very good service. Tipping has crept in to Ireland in the last 10-15 years.. the only difference I see is that here staff feel entitled to the tips without offering good service.

    I don't see how you can get dreadful service from a barman. If you are sitting with your friend at a bar for a couple of hours and give him a nod when you need a new drink whenever and he obliges then that's hardly excellent service. If he's serving someone else and eventually gets to you, that's hardly bad service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    FrStone wrote: »
    Well generally one of the Revenue guidelines for deciding if a perswon is self employed is "does the person provide their own tools" and a takeaway driver provides there own car and fuel and don't claim mileage.
    And what are the revenue guidelines on declaring tips for income tax purposes because I would imagine in 99% of cases that does not happen.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    MadsL wrote: »
    It's a worldwide thing actually, there are many cultures where tipping is part of the culture. In the Czech Republic for instance you are expected to round up the tab in a bar to approx the nearest note. "Keep the change" basically. It's also a nice gesture to buy the barman "a drink" when getting a round in the UK.

    That's a nice gesture anywhere. But it's not a custom and it's not expected and I've never seen it done so I call bullshit on that one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Egginacup wrote: »
    That's a nice gesture anywhere. But it's not a custom and it's not expected and I've never seen it done so I call bullshit on that one.

    "And one for yourself", happens all the time, or certainly used to. I was always told I could take a half of bitter, or cash alternative.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    MadsL wrote: »
    Do-able, if you are an good waiter in a fine dining place.

    3*3 covers a night average $200 check = $40 per table = $360 a night.

    But as you point out fine dining involves tipping out the other staff, there are bussers etc. And if they have a sommelier that is going to slash your average check.

    It's not restricted to "fine" dining. You're expected to give 10% to the barman and 15% to the bus-boy in dumps like TGIF, Bennigan's and standard bar-grill-restaurant type places as well. And I don't know of any restaurant that's rammed 7 nights a week nor do I know of too many waiter/waitresses who work 7 nights a week.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Cannot believe people tip in Ireland. We really are becoming more and more Americanised, even in the stupid traditions like this. Tipping shouldn't even be expected in America, how could restaurants possibly still be allowed to pay so badly with nobody complaining about it?


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Triboro wrote: »
    Most American bars give a free drink after every 2-3 drinks so it kinda balances out with the tipping.

    Usually the 4th drink is free. But sometimes I just want 2 drinks, or maybe max 3. I might want to do a pub crawl, i.e. 1 or 2 in a few different establishments. That means I never see the freebie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    MadsL wrote: »
    It's a worldwide thing actually, there are many cultures where tipping is part of the culture. In the Czech Republic for instance you are expected to round up the tab in a bar to approx the nearest note. "Keep the change" basically. It's also a nice gesture to buy the barman "a drink" when getting a round in the UK.

    It's very unusual in the uk to buy the barman a drink and often seen as ostentatious or crass, although it might be different now, and if you do it out in the country cue all of the other drinkers to stare at you as if you're from another planet!


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Where ? Genuinely interested, have never seen that and God knows I drank in my fair share of pubs over there.

    I lived in New York for 7 years and it was the norm in many places if the barman wanted to keep you there or if you were a regular. But it wasn't a hard and fast rule. I'm a pint drinker so in my local back in the day I would have 3 pint then get given a free one, but by the time I got up to my next freebie 7 pints I'm beginning to get a bit stewed. It just depends on the barman. The sign of a good barman is one who keeps on top of it and takes care of you. The sign of a GREAT barman is one who remembers that you only had 2 or 3 the last time you were there so have a freebie coming once you walk in the door.
    I don't know what it like in the rest of the country but when I was in other spots I didn't experience it so much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    I don't tip :cool:

    Most people who tip are only doing it to make themselves look good


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭heroics


    Does seem to be becoming the norm in Ireland though I think it's weird.

    People waiting on customers have to do all the ass-kissing and then deal with the complaints and abuse if something is wrong, so to me they should be getting all the tips rather than people who don't deal with customers at all. Kitchen Porters:eek:.

    Also I think a lot of people tip for the service from whoever looked after them so don't really realise it might go elsewhere which again is unfair if tips go to other people.

    I know this is a huge source of debate in many places of work but that is my view and I no longer deal with people in my current job, having done plenty when I had to deal with plenty of crap.

    If I am leaving a tip in a restaurant it is generally based on food and service. The people waiting on the customers are only part of that. I wouldn't tip if the food was bad, just as I would tip more if the food was really good.
    I think its only fair that the chefs etc should get a share of the tips


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    UCDVet wrote: »
    1.) Nobody is entitled to a tip. I don't feel that way and I haven't made that claim.
    2.) It is the same. My reasons for liking or disliking people are my own....but I don't think they're much different than everyone else's. If I don't know you, you're neutral to me. If you do something nice - I like you a little more. If you do something mean - I dislike you a little more. If you're attractive a female, well, I'm sorry, but I like a little more.

    So, whether I dislike someone at work because they talk too much in meetings or don't do the work they are meant to, or because they make me wait for 4 minutes before they answer their door, it's all the same to me. And if someone gives me a tip, well, I'm sorry, I like money....so I like them a bit more.

    When I have a choice in deciding, I'm going to give preferential treatment to those that I like. Whether it be because they're attractive, friendly, or because they tip. Depending on my job and the situation I might not have any control, or I might have a lot. But I'll try to take care of people I like and I'll do the minimum required for people I dislike.

    It was true when I was a paperboy. Most people - I didn't know, I delivered their paper. Whatever. Some people were extra nice, and I would make extra sure they got their paper all they way to their door - on an extra windy day I'd even stick it in their door or something. A few people, I didn't like, for whatever reason. I toss their paper on their lawn and called it a day. I did my job, but within the limits of my job, I treated people how I felt they deserved to be treated.

    I've worked a lot of jobs, and it's never really any different. Some jobs give me more or less freedom, but it's only human nature. I'm always going to prefer doing things for people I like.


    Tip all you want. It's your money but people who try to use emotional blackmail against those who don't see the need to tip by stating that waitresses in the US rely on tips for a living are just highlighting the problem and that is that service industry employers have found a great way of dicking their employees out of a living wage by slashing their pay and passing the cost on to the customer.
    If a waitress is working on a certain day when it's pissing rain and nobody comes in then she goes home with fuck all in her pocket even though she's worked a 8 or 10 hour shift (that is if the employer hasn't dicked her even further out of the miserable 2 bucks an hour she gets by sending her home early) and that's not right.
    And now you have even further exploitation by having these kind of workers "on-call" as it were. They are on a kind of make it up as you go along rota, i.e. be available should the place get busy and expect to be sent home at anytime if the place is not so busy...even before you start a shift, meaning that mothers can't schedule when to pick up their kids or do various personal tasks like doctor's/bank/college/interview for a better damn job appointment.

    It's a pisstake.


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