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No contraception, no dole

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    #242
    Unknown Soldier
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Unknown Soldier


    DeJa VooDoo wrote: »
    I agree with a lot of this but I'm interested in where you get the 80%/20% figure from.

    Possibly Pareto's law


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    #243
    Vomit
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭Vomit


    Sounds like eugenics to me.














    Bring it on!


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    #244
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    I don't know what's more disturbing the actual idea or the fact so many on here agree with it.


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    #245
    moc moc a moc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    hollster2 wrote: »
    Ive a college degree behind me

    I have a hard time believing that, given the lack of punctuation in your post.


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    #246
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    ^Don't be mean! She could have written her post in a rush.


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    #247
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    ^Don't be mean! She could have written her post in a rush.

    Thanks I did doesn't bother me if he/she wants to be childish dont have time for that.


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    #248
    SMJSF
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭SMJSF


    sup_dude wrote:
    Why the implant? Many doctors refuse to put it in, my own included as the side effects occur so often that they haven't had one that they haven't take out within a month or two. What if a woman has a bad reaction? What if you use the injection and she has a bad reaction? If you're going to go down this route, at least think of the consequences...


    I can't myself get the implant, coils, or oral pill, because of a current problem with my sight and if I take anything else other than my two options I'd go blind.... so it's the depo provera (injection) or tubes cut...
    so I agree with you!


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    #249
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    SMJSF wrote: »
    I can't myself get the implant, coils, or oral pill, because of a current problem with my sight and if I take anything else other than my two options I'd go blind.... so it's the depo provera (injection) or tubes cut...
    so I agree with you!


    Exactly, and Depo Provera has caused side effects for me and I'm waiting for it to wear off before going down other routes. Shoving every woman on the dole on contraception is a narrowminded idea that involves no thought in the slightest. Hormones are very sensitive things. They're essentially what keeps our body systems working. You can't just go messing with them without thought, which is why everything is done through qualified doctors. Heck, with my last depo prescription, they're so strict on it that I had gotten it from a doctor in one county and went to a pharmacist in another and the pharmacist rang the doctor to make sure. Same with the doctor who gave me the injection, asking where I got the prescription, what pharmacist gave it to me etc.
    They're strict on these things for a reason. You can't go forcing people to use them without thinking of the side effects which can range from mild to severe.


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    #250
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    give all women on the dole of birthing age and with no kids a 1000euro bonus per year for not having kids, if they have had a kid anytime they lose the bonus. Simples.


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    #251
    big.bird84
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭big.bird84


    It's sad we have to have such discussions. My partner is unemployed a year (not for lack of trying to get a job), I lost my job in the summer and we have one child (we were both working when we had her). I went straight out and got the coil fitted to be absolutely sure we wouldn't end up trapping ourselves on SW with 2 kids. I have now gotten a new job but there will definitely be no more kids until I am made permanent in my job and I'm there at least 2 years. It's sensible decision making. We can afford the one we have but no more. Why would ya have something you can't afford?!


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    #252
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    Truly and genuinely... what the flying f#ck... is this thread a joke? Surely the bulk of you cannot be serious...


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    #253
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Dean0088 wrote: »

    Manchester, fly out Tue back Wed: €34.99 each way. So €70 euro. Say another €80 for a hotel room and €150 for the abortion (and many clinics offer discounts to people who give ROI addresses as they know the costs of travel). Throw in another €50 for a a few meals and public transport. We're talking €300 max.

    Could be had for less if you come and go on the same day.

    Not saying it's a solution to the problem in this thread. But abortions aren't the reserve of the rich like.

    Absolute nonsense that you can get an abortion for €150.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #254
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Fair enough. I have up to 9 weeks for €300 here though.
    So your €300 for everything is just basically a completely bad guess

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #255
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    myshirt wrote: »
    Truly and genuinely... what the flying f#ck... is this thread a joke? Surely the bulk of you cannot be serious...

    As has been said many times we've managed to create a leisure class, a sort of anti-aristocracy if you will in the form of an underclass. As happens with all aristocracies eventually people rise up against it.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to have some personal responsibility. I'd support the contraception rule but I'd also have some sort of system in place where the the father was tracked down and the dole reduced for every sprog out there.

    We're talking about people on the dole here for decades rather than a few months. Social welfare in this country has gotten out of hand, we can't afford to keep doing what we've been doing. The money should be going to people genuinely trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.


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    #256
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Huh! A €1,000
    bonus for not having kids. I've heard it all now. Do you know how many kids that could feed, clothe? I definitely didn't spend €1,000 on my child last year. Maybe I should have a few more to make up the difference!!


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    #257
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Bambi wrote: »
    Hmmm by that logic, did I pay for you to go to school? I probably paid mickey money to your ma too. Are you gonna pay that back?

    I wasn't saying that australia is unique in its capacity to produce obnoxious bawbags, this wee island can turn out some fine examples

    Difference being my mother worked her entire life, as did my faither. Never once unemployed, and neither have I nor any member of my family been.

    The 5 kids woman i refer to in my example is obviously unemployed and staying that way.

    Maybe you're fine with treating people like breeding sow's and that's why you're ok supporting it, but not for me thanks.


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    #258
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    Huh! A €1,000
    bonus for not having kids. I've heard it all now. Do you know how many kids that could feed, clothe? I definitely didn't spend €1,000 on my child last year. Maybe I should have a few more to make up the difference!!
    yeah its about 6 weeks creache fees or about 6-8 months worth of GP/prescriptions for a 6 month old kid.


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    #259
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    kylith wrote: »
    Maybe a child support cap would be better? X for the first child, Y for the second child, and nothing for subsequent children.

    Of course it would be impossible to implement such a policy without either coming up with 100% reliable contraception or legalising abortion since, currently, a woman who can't get to the UK has no option but to have the baby whether she wants it or not.

    For working mothers as well, I assume?


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    #260
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    DoYouEvenLift wrote: »
    If it was completely pain and discomfort free and 100% guaranteed reversible with instant recovery I would, but "the snip" is none of those. Can one really compare having a surgery with swallowing a pill?

    LOL. you're kidding right?

    Little bit about the possible side effects of the pill...................


    Increased risk of cervical and breast cancers
    Increased risk of heart attack and stroke
    Migraines
    Higher blood pressure
    Gall bladder disease
    Infertility
    Benign liver tumors
    Decreased bone density
    Yeast overgrowth and infection Increased risk of blood clotting - See more at: http://bodyecology.com/articles/dangers_birth_control_pill.php#.VLXFfSusXu0


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    #261
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Calina wrote: »
    The idea of medicating a section of the population for economic grounds, and doing it on a gender discriminatory basis comes under the heading of totalitarianism.

    Men getting dole would have to get this

    www(.)dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2750650/First-male-contraceptive-injection-available-THREE-years.html

    Greater chance if both parties are on contraception, they would probably use condoms too to stop STD's, condoms should be free to all on the dole atm.

    I know I get the pill free due to medical card, but men cannot get free contraceptive


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    #262
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    Huh! A €1,000
    bonus for not having kids. I've heard it all now. Do you know how many kids that could feed, clothe? I definitely didn't spend €1,000 on my child last year. Maybe I should have a few more to make up the difference!!

    You spent less than a grand on your child in a full year? Very hard to beleive


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    #263
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    ^How is it? She eats everything I eat, I buy her clothes on sale, she's out of nappies now, I don't spoil her with expensive toys and holidays etc. I look after her myself so no creche fees. Bringing up children doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.


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    #264
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Gatling wrote: »
    This is just for a family of 2 adults and 2 kids

    €32,000 per year not including child benefit and Medical cards .
    The medical card in your mind doesn't cost anything but the services used do this includes gp and hospital visits

    A family of 2+2 gets 19,354.80.
    Very disingenuous to give the figure of €32,000 as not everyone gets RA.

    Go back and use the figure of €19,354.80 for people who find themselves unemployed with a MORTGAGE and go from there.

    Its this kind of pitting people against one another that has us in the state we are in tbh.
    If there is soooooo much money to be had at claiming from the state, why isnt everyone packing up their jobs to do so?
    Because its utter rubbish and hyperbole and quite frankly life trolling.


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    #265
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    COYVB wrote: »
    You honestly reckon people would turn to crime instead of taking the pill?

    If there was a male version of the pill and it f*cked up body chemistry as much as the female version, I sure as hell would.


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    #266
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    DeJa VooDoo wrote: »
    Perhaps all women should be issued with chastity belts and the keys be held by the state until they have a good education and a permanent job they can't be sacked from. (The PS comes to mind)
    No, but how about people pay their way and take responsibility for their own welfare. Not exactly controversial.


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    #267
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    TheSheriff wrote: »
    Havent read the whole thread, I am sure there are some very valid arguments in it.

    Just wanted to contribute to the "its a good idea" team.

    I think it is a brilliant idea. I know of several women living in North Cork who have had children with the sole aim of going on benefits.

    Sickening bunch. We need progressive moves like this in Ireland.

    Several women?

    In the WHOLE of North Cork?????

    Couldn't be as many as that, surely? :rolleyes:


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    #268
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    ^How is it? She eats everything I eat, I buy her clothes on sale, she's out of nappies now, I don't spoil her with expensive toys and holidays etc. I look after her myself so no creche fees. Bringing up children doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.

    Sorry that's still hard to believe. Birthday and Christmas presents? Days out? Activities? Family meals out? Doctors visits? Surely even her share of the food eaten from the grocery shop would be more than €1000 over a year.


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    #269
    Photo-Sniper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Photo-Sniper


    Thread reminds me of some rte tv show where some fella was screaming and roaring that the ''gubbermint " wouldn't give him and his family a bigger house. I'm sure he had 7 or 8 kids.


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    #270
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    If there was a male version of the pill and it f*cked up body chemistry as much as the female version, I sure as hell would.

    The copper coil does not mess with hormones, the new male injection will have the same effect as that once it comes in, both are long lasting and reversible so if you get a job it can be undone.

    Copper coil is available now for women


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    #271
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    macyard wrote: »
    The copper coil does not mess with hormones, the new male injection will have the same effect as that once it comes in, both are long lasting and reversible so if you get a job it can be undone.

    Copper coil is available now for women

    Copper coil is by no means the magic side-effect free contraceptive that some would have you believe. I had to have mine removed after it gave me two periods a month, debilitating cramps and migraines. I've known a few friends who've had these symptoms.

    Fwiw I think this initiative is moronic- way to further dehumanise welfare recipients. I think that free contraception should be available as a choice rather than a condition.


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