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No contraception, no dole

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12357…11

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    #122
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    DeJa VooDoo wrote: »
    Don't forget to mention that it's down from 6.2% of births to under 20 year olds to 2.3% though, eh.

    Where does it say it's the highest in Europe?

    You might need to read that again.

    I read it in the article you linked.


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    #123
    Gone Drinking
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭Gone Drinking


    Its not a bad idea in fairness. I earn an ok wage but if I totted up the different bills/expenses that come with having two kids, I can honestly say I couldn't afford to.

    If I was jobless however.. where's the fairness in that?


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    #124
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    listermint wrote: »
    Oh god...

    Groan.

    Sarcasm!;)
    It was the way the thread was going.....


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    #125
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    zcorpian88 wrote: »
    He's right really, lot of people out there procreating carelessly and then get handed extra benefits and the keys to a nicer house than my own off some ballbag parish pump TD looking for an extra vote.

    Where's my house on subsidized rent? I'll be f**king waiting since I'm single and childless, stuck living at home like a complete tit.

    I'm a single mother- where's mine?

    And from working with those at risk of homelessness it's actually not that easy to get a "free house" or rent somewhere and claim rent supplement anymore. Single mothers with kids or not. So many assumptions and generalisations in this thread.


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    #126
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    I read it in the article you linked.

    No you didn't.


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    #127
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Could some people please educate themselves on the changes this government have made in Budget '14 to the One Parent Family Payment once a child turns 7. The parent is then automatically put onto JSA if still not working at that stage. Some people on this thread are coming up with ideas that are already in place!


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    #128
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    One quarter Of babies born in 2010 were to non nationals.

    Interesting statistic.


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    #129
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    One quarter me babies born in 2010 were to non nationals.

    Interesting statistic.

    Still claiming we have the highest rate of births to teenagers in the EU?


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    #130
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    One quarter Of babies born in 2010 were to non nationals.

    Interesting statistic.

    Not really. Most people who came into the country were young with no roots in their home nation and they obviously reached their "having babies" stage when they were over here.

    Plenty of Irish young wans firing out babies in the States, Canada and down under but we don't like to talk about that.


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    #131
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    Could some people please educate themselves on the changes this government have made in Budget '14 to the One Parent Family Payment once a child turns 7. The parent is then automatically put onto JSA if still not working at that stage. Some people on this thread are coming up with ideas that are already in place!

    Actually no, those that have been on opfp long term are put on jobseekers allowance transition. Which is quite different to jsa as the genuinely seeking full time work criteria and the 4 in 7 day rule don't actually apply.


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    #132
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    DeJa VooDoo wrote: »
    Still claiming we have the highest rate of births to teenagers in the EU?

    No you're right I read it wrong.


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    #133
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    No you're right I read it wrong.

    6th highest in the EU and falling.


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    #134
    yipeeeee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭yipeeeee


    DeJa VooDoo wrote: »
    6th highest in the EU and falling.

    Marvellous stuff.


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    #135
    lakesider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭lakesider


    I think the australian guy has it sorted, but what about those hard working folks with kids who lose their job and end up claiming?..sure by his logic we gotta euthanise those kids cos they are now a burden on the state..well arent they?..but sure that will throw work when we build the child euthanisation camps which is good for the exchequer and will help us pay off the banks that have this country by the neck for generations to come..but thats neither here nor there!!!!!


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    #136
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    yipeeeee wrote: »
    Marvellous stuff.

    It is actually.
    Shows what a bit of education and proper information can do.
    Also kinda disproves a lot of the sh1te posted on this thread.


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    #137
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    lakesider wrote: »
    I think the australian guy has it sorted, but what about those hard working folks with kids who lose their job and end up claiming?..sure by his logic we gotta euthanise those kids cos they are now a burden on the state..well arent they?..but sure that will throw work when we build the child euthanisation camps which is good for the exchequer and will help us pay off the banks that have this country by the neck for generations to come..but thats neither here nor there!!!!!

    The babies of today are, hopefully, the taxpayers of tomorrow.
    We need them to pay off the debts.......


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    #138
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    Could some people please educate themselves on the changes this government have made in Budget '14 to the One Parent Family Payment once a child turns 7. The parent is then automatically put onto JSA if still not working at that stage. Some people on this thread are coming up with ideas that are already in place!

    Yup it's amazing what people make up in their head about welfare. People not remember not long ago a few TD's were going to live off the dole for a few weeks ? What happened to that, Ah yeah I'm guessing they got told the rate of payment and what it would buy you. You know then having them look down their nose at people and coming out with stupid comments like “Cant pay the water charge” hmm were did you get that smart phone then...


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    #139
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    lakesider wrote: »
    I think the australian guy has it sorted, but what about those hard working folks with kids who lose their job and end up claiming?..sure by his logic we gotta euthanise those kids cos they are now a burden on the state..well arent they?..but sure that will throw work when we build the child euthanisation camps which is good for the exchequer and will help us pay off the banks that have this country by the neck for generations to come..but thats neither here nor there!!!!!

    To be fair those are the people who we should be looking after. The people who have never worked a day in their live are the ones we really can't afford to support anymore. The VEC had to close a training centre not too long ago because all the teenage girls got pregnant to get the full rate of of €188. They would have only got €100 if they had just of signed on. With a child you get the full €188. Those who worked and contributed should also get a bit more tbh when unemployed.


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    #140
    Kim Kardashi Un
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Kim Kardashi Un


    super_furry wrote: »
    Hahaha, some of you lot won't be happy until the government taxes getting the ride. Sex licences for some, jail terms for others.

    Five euros a finger


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    #141
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Chris___ wrote: »
    To be fair those are the people who we should be looking after. The people who have never worked a day in their live are the ones we really can't afford to support anymore. The VEC had to close a training centre not too long ago because all the teenage girls got pregnant to get the full rate of JSA. They would have only got €100 if they had just of signed on. With a child you get the full €188. Those who worked and contributed should also get a bit more tbh when unemployed.

    Dam them for availing training opportunities... Did they get a free house too ?


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    #142
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    Anyone saying that they don't want their taxes to pay for other people's children are Hypocrites with a capital H! The children's allowance or child benefit as it's called now was introduced many moons ago to help families with the cost of bringing up a child. We have all benefited from it over the years as our parents were in receipt of it. I know it was a huge help to my parents. I can't now turn around and give out if other parents get money to help feed and clothe their babies. I ain't a hypocrite!


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    #143
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Dam them for availing training opportunities... Did they get a free house too ?

    And a 50" flat screen tv.....


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    #144
    wexandproud
    Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    My own experience. Let's not go down the usual route in AH of requesting figures which simply don't exist.

    It's not like the Department of Social Protection can go around to people's houses and inspect their living rooms.

    I'm from a working class area, and have worked in many others around Dublin. I have old acquaintances on the dole along with extended family, some of whom spend their lives going between jail cells and social housing.

    I have eyes and it's fairly obvious to see. When someone who spends every weekday in a pub, wearing a tracksuit with five days stubble is telling me about how their new Smart TV connects to the internet, I can be fairly confident in guessing that they're not paying for it in a 9-5.

    I have also had numerous people actually tell me how they bounce between SW schemes or dodge the "reviews" they get called in for every six months.

    It's very often routed into certain families. Little johnnie sees Mammy and Daddy sitting on their holes his entire life, so when he turns 18 he know the SW game better than most!

    This country has a growing problem with long-term SW lifers who impoverish themselves. Ireland has a great SW welfare system with very generous amounts given. The UK give nothing compared to us. And yet, we still hear cries of "it's not enough".

    You might claim that I'm talking through my hole here with 20% figure. But I guarantee that in my area and many others it'd be upwards of 60% of those on the dole are taking the piss. 20% would be a national average I reckon.
    agree 100%.. yes of course there are people in need of social welfare and of course there are are people who would by far prefer to be working , but i think a lot of people need to take their head out of the sand and look around , there is a certain mindset out there who think its their god given right not to work and the government is obliged to keep them at a standard of living higher than people in jobs , and if people cant see that around them they must live on another planet

    regarding the childrens allowance , unmarried mothers [the ones making a career out of welfare] should be made provide fathers name, and child support should be taken automatically from his welfare or salary and then given to the mother with child benefit reduced accordingly.


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    #145
    Fukuyama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Jesus wept.

    Anyone who doesn't think our SW system is full of lifetime, career mothers and barstool layabouts are off their head.

    We have a cushy system and as many have pointed out, people who go to college, work hard, get a good job actually can't afford to have kids.

    There's a decreasing incentive to work in this country. We need a fairer model. I think one more heavily based on what you've contributed in the past would be better.

    Right now JSA is a cushy weekly wage for many.


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    #146
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    wexandproud wrote: »

    regarding the childrens allowance , unmarried mothers [the ones making a career out of welfare] should be made provide fathers name, and child support should be taken automatically from his welfare or salary and then given to the mother with child benefit reduced accordingly.

    I'm assuming you mean their social welfare should be reduced if maintenance is paid (which currently happens as it stands) and not child benefit? Or do you actually think child benefit, a flat rate universal payment, should be reduced for single parents who receive maintenance?


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    #147
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    wexandproud wrote: »
    regarding the childrens allowance , unmarried mothers [the ones making a career out of welfare] should be made provide fathers name, and child support should be taken automatically from his welfare or salary and then given to the mother with child benefit reduced accordingly.

    Child benefit isn't just given to unmarried mothers, it's given to everyone. Also, there's such thing as single fathers. Also, it can be difficult enough to get a partner to pay maintenance at times, nevermind that.

    Where are people getting all these "majority" "most" and other sweeping statements from? I'd also like to find out where to avail of these massive tvs and smart phones


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    #148
    DeJa VooDoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    wexandproud wrote: »
    regarding the childrens allowance , unmarried mothers [the ones making a career out of welfare] should be made provide fathers name, and child support should be taken automatically from his welfare or salary and then given to the mother with child benefit reduced accordingly.

    That was my suggestion earlier in the thread, well not reducing child benefit, reducing the weekly payment.
    'the ones making a career out of welfare' isn't helpful btw if we're trying to have a rational discussion.


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    #149
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBzoUx7pUP4


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    #150
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    DeJa VooDoo wrote: »
    That was my suggestion earlier in the thread, well not reducing child benefit, reducing the weekly payment.
    'the ones making a career out of welfare' isn't helpful btw if we're trying to have a rational discussion.

    They do exist though, I agree we have no idea of the real numbers and whether its a tiny minority or not but trying to make out they arent out there is just ignoring reality.

    What we need is definitive statistics from the department of social welfare of how many people receiving the dole have never worked or have been on it longer than they have worked etc. It would put these arguments to bed once and for all about how many of these "spongers" actually exist.


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    #151
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    VinLieger wrote: »
    They do exist though, I agree we have no idea of the real numbers and whether its a tiny minority or not but trying to make out they arent out there is just ignoring reality.

    What we need is definitive statistics from the department of social welfare of how many people receiving the dole have never worked or have been on it longer than they have worked etc. It would put these arguments to bed once and for all about how many of these "spongers" actually exist.


    What an awful lot of people do is try to make out that all or majority of dole receivers are spongers, and that's ignoring reality on a worse scale. I'd love to see those statistics, but they'd also have to define circumstance.


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