Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

lucernarian · 07-01-2015 11:16AM

5starpool wrote: »

In this 1.6m figure often quoted is this just counting all residences in an efibre enabled area or those premises that can actually receive efibre?

In rural areas for example an an exchange based in a town can be upgraded but those over a certain distance can't get even 1mb, never mind fibre. Are those houses counted?

I've made that point a few times on this forum but responses range from "ah I'm sure it is" to "eircom nowadays is not like what it used to be" and then different links from media outlets and so on. Never anything official or from something other than a press release.

ED E wrote: »

Everything points to it being based on the prequalification databases. That is the cab or rack in the exchange has to be in place and each line tested before a premises gets added to the count.

What's this everything? Are there some documents or stock exchange documents spelling out how many lines for instance qualify right now, how many are served by VDSL2 enabled cabinets and then the current total number of lines connected to ADSL exchanges or even the percentage proportions of total lines that can get ADSL and VDSL2?

garyc151 · 07-01-2015 11:43AM

I have rang again they said I should be able get it its a glitch in there system and they will ring me back

garyc151 · 07-01-2015 11:56AM

I have rang again they said I should be able get it its a glitch in there system and they will ring me back

bk · 07-01-2015 12:03PM

5starpool wrote: »

In this 1.6m figure often quoted is this just counting all residences in an efibre enabled area or those premises that can actually receive efibre?

In rural areas for example an an exchange based in a town can be upgraded but those over a certain distance can't get even 1mb, never mind fibre. Are those houses counted?

Well Eircom says that 1million premises can get VDSL.

I've had it confirmed to me by VERY reliable sources that this 1million number is based on the number of homes that pass pre-qualification, which means homes that can actually get VDSL.

However do note that can include speeds as low as 7mb/s

The Pre-qualification database is open to Comreg and all the other telecos (Vodafone, Sky, etc.) so this isn't something Eircom can lie about.

Obviously the 1.6m figure is a guesstimate as the VDSL cabs for the remaining 600,000 homes haven't been put in place yet and thus pre-qualification tests can't be run, however the figure should be accurate and very close (give or take a couple thousand).

lucernarian · 07-01-2015 12:26PM

bk wrote: »

Well Eircom says that 1million premises can get VDSL.

I've had it confirmed to me by VERY reliable sources that this 1million number is based on the number of homes that pass pre-qualification, which means homes that can actually get VDSL.

However do note that can include speeds as low as 7mb/s

The Pre-qualification database is open to Comreg and all the other telecos (Vodafone, Sky, etc.) so this isn't something Eircom can lie about.

It would help considerably with verifying this if we had an idea of what proportion of lines did not pass prequal after completed cabinet upgrades. Then the numbers could be compared and we'd know by having a figure for that, they weren't just counting every line connected to a VDSL2-enabled cabinet.

bk · 07-01-2015 01:31PM

lucernarian wrote: »

It would help considerably with verifying this if we had an idea of what proportion of lines did not pass prequal after completed cabinet upgrades. Then the numbers could be compared and we'd know by having a figure for that, they weren't just counting every line connected to a VDSL2-enabled cabinet.

And as I've told you time and time again, all the figures they have realised so far are accurate and taken from the pre-qualifying database, so I've no reason to doubt the 1.6 million figure.

ED E · 07-01-2015 01:38PM

I assume one of the design engineers in eircom has done the maths.

A. They know distance of main pair to CCP (copper cab)
B. They know total loop length to within a few hundred meters

They can thus easily determine the length of the cab-NTU segment to within a small margin of error. That means an educated guess as to how many on each cab will prequal when the VDSL cab is fitted. If they took conservative numbers from that type of educated guessing and added a small bit they could be confident in getting to the 1.6M figure with the cabs they have planned.

lucernarian · 07-01-2015 01:54PM

bk wrote: »

And as I've told you time and time again, all the figures they have realised so far are accurate and taken from the pre-qualifying database, so I've no reason to doubt the 1.6 million figure.

I know bk and I'd respect your opinion on this but I *only* have your word to say they are taken from the pre-qual database. And presumably the prequal database has the quantities of those lines served by cabinets but are not eligible for VDSL2. But those numbers aren't being released. Back in the IrelandOffline days, there was the occasional nugget dug out by Muck or others from Eircom IPO filings or an Oireachtas committee report or a leak of the exchange line database or other insider information that built up a picture of the state of lines. For this, we have a good source in you saying that these >1000000 lines are confirmed prequals but I haven't seen any way of getting even a rudimentary verification of their numbers.

I hate harping on about it as much as you probably get irritated reading my posts on this, but eircom's track record on this is very very bad and furthermore the govt. have no interest in highlighting lines that can't pass for VDSL2 within the areas on their new map that are supposed to get Next Generation Broadband. Lines that don't pass because they take a mad path around a town or city or suburb of Dublin and are in some standalone house that never got cabled by Cablelink etc. are something the Govt. currently has absolutely no answer for. The provision of such map data probably came with plenty of legal guarantees and "This isn't an official agreement to support every single connection request" or a Universal Service Obligation to provide all larger urban areas with NGB.

ED E wrote: »

I assume one of the design engineers in eircom has done the maths.

A. They know distance of main pair to CCP (copper cab)
B. They know total loop length to within a few hundred meters

They can thus easily determine the length of the cab-NTU segment to within a small margin of error. That means an educated guess as to how many on each cab will prequal when the VDSL cab is fitted. If they took conservative numbers from that type of educated guessing and added a small bit they could be confident in getting to the 1.6M figure with the cabs they have planned.

Again, I'm not disputing that ways exist to accurately calculate prequal numbers before rollout. Nor is my point targeted at the *eventual* total rollout claim specifically. I'm sure they wouldn't be carrying such a rollout if they didn't do some homework before making investments!

ED E, I want to know if eircom are actually being truthful with their data and not being at least misleading, like they were with their ADSL rollout during the early and mid-2000s. Remember during their rollout of ADSL to "every urban area with over 1500 people", they had newspaper advertisements claiming a milestone of over 1 million lines enabled to carry broadband? Posters in IrelandOffline managed to work out or find out that the actual pass rate back then was around the 83 or 84% mark due to pairgains and general network deterioration since the time TÉ was in final preparations for privatisation.

ED E · 07-01-2015 02:04PM

A tinfoil hat attitude is good to keep eye on the bullsh1t, kudos for the scepticism. The fact is vodafone and sky have access, so if eircom tried anything they'd be found in breach by COMREG pretty sharpish (has happened before on other grounds if you check their publications).

If you really want to get hard data submit an FOI request to comreg and see if they'll entertain it.

lucernarian · 07-01-2015 02:30PM

ED E wrote: »

A tinfoil hat attitude is good to keep eye on the bullsh1t, kudos for the scepticism. The fact is vodafone and sky have access, so if eircom tried anything they'd be found in breach by COMREG pretty sharpish (has happened before on other grounds if you check their publications).

If you really want to get hard data submit an FOI request to comreg and see if they'll entertain it.

Tried what exactly? Eircom advertised over a million lines enabled for ADSL when the real number was closer to 800,000. Apparently nothing illegal or in contravention with ComReg's codes of conduct for operators etc. about that. And what part of comreg would enforce advertising claims and press releases, exactly??? Pretty sure that's not in their mandate.

Furthermore, that is not a basis for making any kind of FOI request. Some of the numbers received for the proportion of lines that failed the test (several years ago) on enabled exchanges had to be garnered from IPO or stock exchange documents when eircom was re-floated. FOIs don't come into it for a private company with "commercially sensitive" information.

Also the OLOs have little to do with this, as they also benefit from exaggerated coverage claims and their opinion doesn't really matter if it appears to be legal to define "enabled" as simply being connected to an enabled cabinet. There were OLOs and resellers back in 2004 too.

jay93 · 07-01-2015 03:58PM

I'm within 300m of two VDSL cabs and still eircom cannot give efibre to anyone in my estate.. Called to sign up yesterday and they said my max speed would be 17mb/s which isn't bad better than 3 mobile broadband anyway.

markmurphy · 07-01-2015 05:01PM

Ordered my Efibre today, CAB went live today. Distance at least 700m to 800m. Sales rep. said I'd get 24 meg, and about 10 up. (was on 9meg on DSL)

Delighted !

Funny thing If I check my number on vodafone, or sky they say I only get DSL speed up to about 8-10.

10 days to get installed.

Mark.

Hackery · 07-01-2015 05:43PM

The pre qualification database is sent by eircom Wholesale to all NGA operators and ComReg on a weekly basis. There is no conspiracy here.

jay93 · 07-01-2015 05:45PM

Got connected already only rang last night at 8pm and it's on already impressed with that . Wish it could be fibre though hopefully they will upgrade my estate in the future but for now im really happy with the speed im getting

bk · 07-01-2015 07:56PM

jay93 wrote: »

I'm within 300m of two VDSL cabs and still eircom cannot give efibre to anyone in my estate.. Called to sign up yesterday and they said my max speed would be 17mb/s which isn't bad better than 3 mobile broadband anyway.

In fairness though, 17mb/s VDSL would be vastly superior to 3 mobile broadband.

It is called "mobile broadband" for a reason. It is designed for light mobile usage, not for heavy weird connection. Please remember that 3G is a shared medium, you are sharing the speed with all the other people connected to the same tower. That is why 3G can quickly drop to 2mb/s or less at busy times.

Also remember the small data caps of 3G, while VDSL will normally be unlimited.

Not the same at all.

garyc151 · 07-01-2015 08:19PM

I'm on 17 meg they told me that e fiber in my area but there's a glitch in system so its say 31/12/2099 not wat it meant b 31/12/14 and there sayin now could maybe month or two then they say two weeks they don't have a clue

garyc151 · 07-01-2015 08:29PM

But I'm only getting 1 to 6 meg mostly

mass_debater · 07-01-2015 08:43PM

garyc151 wrote: »

But I'm only getting 1 to 6 meg mostly

What speed is your modem syncing at?

markmurphy · 07-01-2015 10:03PM

I was just thinking.

Now that most major towns are done, in which they need say 100 cabs or 50 maybe.

Now that they are done. Won't the rural deployment of them be much much faster? Because you only need one Green Cab and not a pile of them? 192 homes per cab (I think).

Makes sense? Kilkenny alone has about 50.

Mark.

markmurphy · 07-01-2015 10:07PM

Hackery wrote: »

The pre qualification database is sent by eircom Wholesale to all NGA operators and ComReg on a weekly basis. There is no conspiracy here.

I have it ordered off Eircom. If I put my number into vodafone or sky just now, its still not available to buy! Just for fun to check.

M.

ED E · 07-01-2015 10:58PM

markmurphy wrote: »

I was just thinking.

Now that most major towns are done, in which they need say 100 cabs or 50 maybe.

Now that they are done. Won't the rural deployment of them be much much faster? Because you only need one Green Cab and not a pile of them? 192 homes per cab (I think).

Makes sense? Kilkenny alone has about 50.

Mark.

Not quite. Cabs have a 2km range, so in rural areas you need more "half full" ones, you can't always just put in one or two. They also have to be fed fibre, in citys there's ducting to blow this through, in rural areas it can mean digging miles of roadway.

The advantage now is the staff and contractors are well practiced. They'll be able to really fly at if they're pushed to. If the CoCo's comply with licences and wayleaves we could see them really get to it.

markmurphy · 08-01-2015 12:19AM

ED E wrote: »

Not quite. Cabs have a 2km range, so in rural areas you need more "half full" ones, you can't always just put in one or two. They also have to be fed fibre, in citys there's ducting to blow this through, in rural areas it can mean digging miles of roadway.

The advantage now is the staff and contractors are well practiced. They'll be able to really fly at if they're pushed to. If the CoCo's comply with licences and wayleaves we could see them really get to it.

2KM range?

Not so, around here anyway. We (friends) checked who could get it. After about 1.2K its not available. Maybe just around here. But I'm fairly right on this one.

garyc151 · 08-01-2015 06:46AM

mass_debater wrote: »

What speed is your modem syncing at?

17400

mass_debater · 08-01-2015 07:26AM

garyc151 wrote: »

17400

Turn off wireless and connect only your laptop by Ethernet, disconnect everything else, what speed do you get?

garyc151 · 08-01-2015 07:31AM

mass_debater wrote: »

Turn off wireless and connect only your laptop by Ethernet, disconnect everything else, what speed do you get?

Speeds of 1 to 6 meg even with test socket I use to install sky have try all eircom recs told me I should not have traffic on line but I do they changed my port worked for all of two days and back to this

garyc151 · 08-01-2015 11:05AM

After cutting contract I'll be with UPC 240mbp tomorrow

gerryk · 08-01-2015 11:19AM

garyc151 wrote: »

After cutting contract I'll be with UPC 240mbp tomorrow

I wish I had that option.

garyc151 · 08-01-2015 11:28AM

gerryk wrote: »

I wish I had that option.

Can you not get upc

The_Pretender · 08-01-2015 11:38AM

Sorry if this is off topic guys, but efibre was just made available and installed on my road on Tuesday. Delighted with it, we're getting about 18mg speed which is far better than what our old plan was (pay for 3mg speed and lucky if we got 1.5).

Only problem is the modem. We had this one which had great range, but when they installed efibre they said that it could not used used with fibre power and that we need to use the eircom modem they hooked up for us. It's annoying, because this new modem has terrible range, and while I'm going to get a range extender some time, our old modem was perfectly adequate for our house and even made our terrible download speed just about bearable.

Question is, can we really only use this eircom modem or will my old modem work/ can we buy another better modem/wireless router to work with efibre?

EDIT: Just read the description of the router on the link I provided, says it's for fibre optic broadband, so i assume it should actually work?

gerryk · 08-01-2015 11:42AM

garyc151 wrote: »

Can you not get upc

Nope... my only option is Eircom (and others that use their infrasctructure) and since I am a direct-connection 2.5km from the exchange, there is nothing positive on the horizon. I'm stuck with 3Mb/s for the forseeable

Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

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