Winter tires or normal?

magnus500 · 15-12-2014 10:40pm #1

Hi all

I need four new tires on my Octavia 1.6 petrol and just wondering if I should get winter tires or if new normal tires would have good enough tread? Are there in between tires that would do both? I'm living near Blessington and commute to bray each day so a mix of back roads, a bit of up the hills and then m50.

Thanks for any input.

paulmclaughlin · 15-12-2014 10:45pm

Just buy normal tyres, we don't really need winter tyres in Ireland, especially with the paltry amount of snow we usually get.

Celly Smunt · 15-12-2014 10:48pm

A good set of normal tyres,perhaps look into which manufacturers use softer rubber and don't over inflate the tyres. (by not over inflating I don't mean do what the rest of Ireland does and drive on near flats,just bring the pressure down 1 or 2 bar if you're normally around 35-37)

CJhaughey · 16-12-2014 12:02am

Read down the forum a bit and you can see where summer tyres can end up
with you in a ditch.
Its not about snow, its about temperature.
Normal summer tyres go hard in the cold weather and don't grip that well.
Winter tyres stay pliable and grip much better in cold conditions.
I didn't feel the need for winters before I used them but after using them for the last 4-5 years I wouldn't be without them now.

Cheensbo · 16-12-2014 12:06am

Celly Smunt wrote: »

A good set of normal tyres,perhaps look into which manufacturers use softer rubber and don't over inflate the tyres. (by not over inflating I don't mean do what the rest of Ireland does and drive on near flats,just bring the pressure down 1 or 2 bar PSI if you're normally around 35-37)

FYP, I know its a typo but there's always one who could take that literally and go round with flat tyres! :eek:

Supergurrier · 16-12-2014 12:17am

Regular tyres and drive sensibly

Tail Docker · 16-12-2014 12:26am

Supergurrier wrote: »

Regular tyres and drive sensibly

The last frosty morning I passed 4 cars wrapped around ditches, one was a 131 and one a 141, the other two were older. All were wrecked to one degree or the other. I think the winter tyres I fitted are cheap compared to a trip to the ditch. We grit industrial estates and car parks, so are always out driving when conditions are dire.

I just smile resignedly when I hear lads saying winter tyres are a waste of time/ the AA don't reccomend them/they're a luxury.

Kevin McCloud · 16-12-2014 12:28am

When they reduce your braking by 50% and have better road traction they are a must.

bazz26 · 16-12-2014 12:29am

Ok so you buy winter tyres. What about the other 10 months of the year or so when we have higher temperatures? Winter tyres become ill effective at temperatures of about 8 degrees or above. I hope you are not thinking of keeping them on all year round.

Supergurrier · 16-12-2014 12:29am

But they are a waste of money in out temperate climate, the temperatures in which winter tyres are optimal last maybe 3 weeks in the year.

People wrap cars all the time, most people drive at speeds that don't suit the conditions in winter.

Driver education is the problem not the optimal temperature of afew inches of rubber.

stimpson · 16-12-2014 12:31am

bazz26 wrote: »

Ok so you buy winter tyres. What about the other 10 months of the year or so when we have higher temperatures? Winter tyres become ill effective at temperatures of about 8 degrees or above. I hope you are not thinking of keeping them on all year round.

Winter tyres are for winter. Summer tyres are for summer. If you're finding it difficult to remember you could write it down somewhere.

Kevin McCloud · 16-12-2014 12:32am

bazz26 wrote: »

Ok so you buy winter tyres. What about the other 10 months of the year or so when we have higher temperatures? Winter tyres become ill effective at temperatures of about 8 degrees or above. I hope you are not thinking of keeping them on all year round.

Its suppose to get very mild now next few days and will be 8 degree plus, what should one do for safety change back to summer tyres? Serious question.

bazz26 · 16-12-2014 12:35am

Tail Docker wrote: »

The last frosty morning I passed 4 cars wrapped around ditches, one was a 131 and one a 141, the other two were older. All were wrecked to one degree or the other. I think the winter tyres I fitted are cheap compared to a trip to the ditch. We grit industrial estates and car parks, so are always out driving when conditions are dire.

I just smile resignedly when I hear lads saying winter tyres are a waste of time/ the AA don't reccomend them/they're a luxury.

A contributing factor with those accidents could have been also that drivers simply don't adjust to the conditions they are driving in. I've seen idiots driving in poor conditions the same way they drive in good conditions.

There is a good argument for winter tyres but there is also an argument for driver education and a bit of cop on that you need to adjust your driving in our winter conditions.

bazz26 · 16-12-2014 12:42am

stimpson wrote: »

Winter tyres are for winter. Summer tyres are for summer. If you're finding it difficult to remember you could write it down somewhere.

No way Sherlock, have you a pen handy?

The OP is changing tyres, she/he asked about winter tyres instead of "normal" or summer tyres so unless he/she plans to buy a set of winter and summer tyres isn't it fair to assume he/she is going to leave the set that he/she buys on rather than switching?

rizzodun · 16-12-2014 12:43am

I know someone who went off the road with winter tyres on their car, they couldn't understand why the tyres didn't help.
That's kind of like the 4x4 argument.

I don't use winter tyres, I drive appropriate to the weather conditions, and wonder how we all lived without them in the past.

Sheldons Brain · 16-12-2014 1:03am

There are only 2 rational approaches, summer/winter or all season.

Supergurrier · 16-12-2014 1:05am

All season are summer tyres. Its just a buzzword used to sell winter tyres in some countries where they arent needed.

No tyre is just made for summer.

Sheldons Brain · 16-12-2014 1:07am

Supergurrier wrote: »

No tyre is just made for summer.

But some tyres are optimised for warmer drier conditions than are common on this island. Fine if you live in Malaga, less so for Wicklow.

Supergurrier · 16-12-2014 1:11am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

But some tyres are optimised for warmer drier conditions than are common on this island. Fine if you live in Malaga, less so for Wicklow.

Some tyres. Most mainstream tyres are optimised for wet conditions and manufacturers go to great pains to run tests on wet handling performance and thread patterns for optimal water dispersal.

That is unless driving on slicks or cheap chinese rubber

Senecio · 16-12-2014 9:15am

magnus500 wrote: »

Hi all

I need four new tires on my Octavia 1.6 petrol and just wondering if I should get winter tires or if new normal tires would have good enough tread? Are there in between tires that would do both? I'm living near Blessington and commute to bray each day so a mix of back roads, a bit of up the hills and then m50.

Thanks for any input.

Are you prepared to buy another set in March, and then change them twice a year for the life of both sets of tyres? If yes, get the winters. If no, get a good quality set of summer tyres that will cover all but the worst driving conditions that this country experiences.

Tail Docker · 16-12-2014 9:56am

Supergurrier wrote: »

But they are a waste of money in out temperate climate, the temperatures in which winter tyres are optimal last maybe 3 weeks in the year.

People wrap cars all the time, most people drive at speeds that don't suit the conditions in winter.

Driver education is the problem not the optimal temperature of afew inches of rubber.

- only because I hate the rolley-eyes one. I have invested in 3 Hawaii shirts too, for our 49 weeks of good weather... :pac:

stimpson · 16-12-2014 11:11am

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Its suppose to get very mild now next few days and will be 8 degree plus, what should one do for safety change back to summer tyres? Serious question.

The maximum temp will be 8 degrees plus. The average will be much lower than that. Most people will be driving at rush hour when temps will be lower. I have winters on the family car about 3 weeks now. Wet grip is much better than my daily drive which has brand new summer Goodyears.

Sheldons Brain · 16-12-2014 12:48pm

Supergurrier wrote: »

Some tyres. Most mainstream tyres are optimised for wet conditions and manufacturers go to great pains to run tests on wet handling performance and thread patterns for optimal water dispersal.

Well if you are suggesting that someone checkout these things before choosing a tyre, then fair enough. As said in other threads here, tyres are a balance of characteristics, the trick is to choose something whose balance suits your driving in Ireland and isn't too focussed on saving a couple of Euro at the expense of grip.

whomitconcerns · 16-12-2014 1:57pm

stimpson wrote: »

The maximum temp will be 8 degrees plus. The average will be much lower than that. Most people will be driving at rush hour when temps will be lower. I have winters on the family car about 3 weeks now. Wet grip is much better than my daily drive which has brand new summer Goodyears.

It does always shock me on boards that most people will say dont get winter tyres..yet every year we see multiple posts about peoples cars slipping and being written off in some cases on ice and frost, etc.

Winter tyres do work in Ireland..and if they save me once from a skid they are paid for. I pay 50€ a time to get the 4 swapped over, takes 40mins so not too bad.

CJhaughey · 16-12-2014 2:51pm

whomitconcerns wrote: »

It does always shock me on boards that most people will say dont get winter tyres..yet every year we see multiple posts about peoples cars slipping and being written off in some cases on ice and frost, etc.

I sound like a stuck record on this topic.
I too never believed that winter tyres were necessary in this country, until the winters of 09/10 showed me the difference between being just in control on Summer tyres where any slight error could result in a major accident.
OR driving carefully on Winter tyres where you have much more control.
They don't melt and turn into black puddles at temperatures over 8deg or even at over 15 degrees they just perform as normal tyres.
Where they do excel is on cold,greasy, wet and generally traction poor surfaces.

Replacing a door or bumper in a panel shop will cost you far in excess of a set of winter tyres, add to that the inconvenience and possible insurance ramifications and it becomes a no brainer to me.
I won't even mention the possible injuries etc etc.
My set cost me less than 300 fitted, to me thats very cheap for the benefit that they give.

I would ask any on here that are advocating using summer tyres to people living in rural areas and outside main roads to think very carefully, during periods of cold snowy weather its imperative to be able to drive, and not all roads get gritted.
Without good winter tyres you are really at the mercy of the weather on these roads.

cerastes · 16-12-2014 3:05pm

Tail Docker wrote: »

The last frosty morning I passed 4 cars wrapped around ditches, one was a 131 and one a 141, the other two were older. All were wrecked to one degree or the other. I think the winter tyres I fitted are cheap compared to a trip to the ditch. We grit industrial estates and car parks, so are always out driving when conditions are dire.

But who is to say the tyres were the cause, maybe it was the driver not driving to the conditions? people will drive off the road in winter tyres too.

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Well if you are suggesting that someone checkout these things before choosing a tyre, then fair enough. As said in other threads here, tyres are a balance of characteristics, the trick is to choose something whose balance suits your driving in Ireland and isn't too focussed on saving a couple of Euro at the expense of grip.

A complete replacement set of tyres is not just going to cost a few euro though.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

It does always shock me on boards that most people will say dont get winter tyres..yet every year we see multiple posts about peoples cars slipping and being written off in some cases on ice and frost, etc.

Winter tyres do work in Ireland..and if they save me once from a skid they are paid for. I pay 50€ a time to get the 4 swapped over, takes 40mins so not too bad.

Thats going to happen regardless of winter tyres or not.

CJhaughey wrote: »

I sound like a stuck record on this topic.
I too never believed that winter tyres were necessary in this country, until the winters of 09/10 showed me the difference between being just in control on Summer tyres where any slight error could result in a major accident.
OR driving carefully on Winter tyres where you have much more control.
They don't melt and turn into black puddles at temperatures over 8deg or even at over 15 degrees they just perform as normal tyres.
Where they do excel is on cold,greasy, wet and generally traction poor surfaces.

Replacing a door or bumper in a panel shop will cost you far in excess of a set of winter tyres, add to that the inconvenience and possible insurance ramifications and it becomes a no brainer to me.
I won't even mention the possible injuries etc etc.
My set cost me less than 300 fitted, to me thats very cheap for the benefit that they give.

I would ask any on here that are advocating using summer tyres to people living in rural areas and outside main roads to think very carefully, during periods of cold snowy weather its imperative to be able to drive, and not all roads get gritted.
Without good winter tyres you are really at the mercy of the weather on these roads.

Those winters were exceptional in the extreme, I drove in that weather with no problems and I knew others that did too, plenty didnt have any accidents at all either.
Take it handy, drive to the conditions. If the weather was that bad again, I have chains to put on and Id rather that than winter tyres I dont need for the rest of the year, deteriorating with age as they go unused, costing money sitting there, eventually requiring to be replaced because of age.
Unless you do a lot of mileage and you have 300 to spare and the car is worth it, sure, go for it,but its not the only option.

whomitconcerns · 16-12-2014 3:28pm

cerastes wrote: »

But who is to say the tyres were the cause, maybe it was the driver not driving to the conditions? people will drive off the road in winter tyres too.

Thats going to happen regardless of winter tyres or not.

thats true..but its less likely to happen with winter tyres on. Never said it wouldnt happen..if i slip/slide once it will cost me more than the €600 I spent on winters. And since its one set on one set off, my summers will last a season longer also!

Cuddlesworth · 16-12-2014 3:48pm

whomitconcerns wrote: »

It does always shock me on boards that most people will say dont get winter tyres..yet every year we see multiple posts about peoples cars slipping and being written off in some cases on ice and frost, etc.

They say don't get winter tires because they only see black or white, nothing in between.

I don't need winter tyres and I drive a motorbike most days. I live near the coast, my daily route is 100 feet to a main road, 1k to the M50 and its motorway all the way to my work. Everything is salted and treated and if it isn't we have bigger problems than me getting to work.

If I lived in Blessington or the midlands with colder on average temps, higher chance of snow and untreated roads, tight roads, steep hills, I'd have a pair on winters on the car 3 months of the year.

Or if I travelled 300 km a day, I'd do it in heartbeat.

If I was still driving the old back road between Blanch and Leixlip, I'd consider it, based on my car type and current tyre performance.

CJhaughey · 16-12-2014 3:59pm

cerastes wrote: »

Those winters were exceptional in the extreme, I drove in that weather with no problems and I knew others that did too, plenty didnt have any accidents at all either.
Take it handy, drive to the conditions. If the weather was that bad again, I have chains to put on and Id rather that than winter tyres I dont need for the rest of the year, deteriorating with age as they go unused, costing money sitting there, eventually requiring to be replaced because of age.
Unless you do a lot of mileage and you have 300 to spare and the car is worth it, sure, go for it,but its not the only option.

Yes those were exceptional for sure but even this year you can see that cold conditions have contributed to accidents, thats not saying that winters would have saved the situation but they very well may have been the difference between crashing and not crashing.
You say that plenty of people didn't have any accidents either but the ones that did would have I bet been glad of winters.
Yes, you can drive to the conditions and I have done so on summers BUT having had both and doing on average 25k miles a year in a 15 year old car I would much rather pay the 300 and arrive safely then have to drive like a granny and possibly still pay a price.
I'll wear a set of tyres out in a year easily and if I had two sets of rims like my wifes car then I'd swap them over for summers in a year.
I have had two sets for the other car since 09 and the winters will have worn out at the end of this winter.
5 years of safe winter driving spread out over 300 euro is 60 per year.
Is that too much to ask?
If it was a thread about people driving on bald tyres there wouldn't be any argument but having a set of winters seems to provoke an almost irrational streak in many people.

christy c · 16-12-2014 4:39pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Yes those were exceptional for sure but even this year you can see that cold conditions have contributed to accidents, thats not saying that winters would have saved the situation but they very well may have been the difference between crashing and not crashing.
You say that plenty of people didn't have any accidents either but the ones that did would have I bet been glad of winters.
Yes, you can drive to the conditions and I have done so on summers BUT having had both and doing on average 25k miles a year in a 15 year old car I would much rather pay the 300 and arrive safely then have to drive like a granny and possibly still pay a price.
I'll wear a set of tyres out in a year easily and if I had two sets of rims like my wifes car then I'd swap them over for summers in a year.
I have had two sets for the other car since 09 and the winters will have worn out at the end of this winter.
5 years of safe winter driving spread out over 300 euro is 60 per year.
Is that too much to ask?
If it was a thread about people driving on bald tyres there wouldn't be any argument but having a set of winters seems to provoke an almost irrational streak in many people.

Just out if interest Charlie, what speed were you able to do safely on snow covered roads? I remember doing 50k maybe a bit more on relatively narrow roads with summers on, but wouldn't have liked to try and stop suddenly!

ArnieSilvia · 16-12-2014 4:40pm

I used to sell tyres and you could tell the difference just by handling the tyres. On better ones it was easy to feel softer sidewall, softer (grippier) thread that didn't wear fast as was reported by happy customers. Ironically, best ever winter tyres I saw (couple years back, mind) were made by Japanese (Sumitomo) and, understandably, Norvegians (Viking). These were extremely good and still can't figure out why "tests" judge them poorly.

The "all season" tyres. From my experience (Debica Navigator) they will get you out of snow for sure (if you need it) and good value for money but won't excel in dry or icy conditions, yet still better than summer tyres when in trouble. Otherwise, in word - average. Good in snow, good on wet roads, good in summer. Can't remember the noise levels but expect higher than average.

Back to Ireland, I swapped recently summer Firestone's with 50% thread for brand new Uniroyal rain experts and I can tell you that the grip on Uniroyal's is just unbelieveable. I know every roundabout on my way to work and I push my car to the grip limits as it's communicating it in a progressive way but I'm just stunned at Uniroyal performance. I haven't reached their full potential yet as I didn't manage to lose grip yet (every time on Firestone's) which says it all. Haven't tested it on black ice yet but will report. Firestones on the back now and make the back end step out on wet road on a car that normally understeers

Had nankangs ditch finders on my other car could not wait to rid of them.

Seeing how the Uniroyal's perform, I find it hard to justify buying winter tyres but if I had cash I undoubtedly would. Preferably ones designed and made in country where winters are harsh.

Winter tires or normal?

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