Winter tires or normal?

GTE

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Logic would dictate they would wear quite fast but would offer comparable performance to Summers. Which others have tested and discovered to be true.

For me, the data set would have to include more than just one model per tyre category for anyone to say that the Winter category of tyre is comparable to the Summer category.

For example, even within the All Season category, I own the Vredestein Quatrac 3 which were tested in your link and found them to just float around corners during warm spells in the Summer. They are like jelly compared to my Hankook All Seasons - so much so I switched the Quatrac to the rear.

A 10% difference in braking is around 4 or 5 meters at 100kph, I think. I'd say bad Summers would be worse than the Winter model they used. Still, that is just one model.

GTE

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The difference between summers and winters in summer is much less than the difference in freezing or snowy conditions. Winters certainly are not "horrendous" in summer.

All the research I have done and the personal experiences I have had of different compounds in the Irish Summer suggest otherwise, relative to a good Summer tyre, of course.

GTE

Anjobe wrote: »

If someone has managed to drive safely through many years of winters on standard tyres why should they go to that inconvenience and expense?

The initial expense is important, but in the long run it would end up leveling out as you would be getting the same wear rates. Still, initial expense is important.

Anjobe wrote: »

The decision whether or not to use winter tires is for each driver to make for themselves, based on where, what and how they drive

Related to the first quote and the second one; where, what and how will not have an influence on the overall grip limits which the tyres give you in a situation. The upsides of a good All Season or Winter tyre in Ireland which I feel are important is the headroom you get by using them over Summer tyres.

Just because you drive slowly does not mean you have more grip than a Winter tyre user who is going a bit faster. The Summer tyre will always let go first if there is the need for avoiding action or emergency braking.

The 4 or 5 meter difference between two specific models of tyre in Summer conditions as discussed earlier is one thing, but the stopping distance will mean much more in the Winter so it is not good enough for the driver to make that call in the way you describe.

There will always be debate on forums like this until individuals find themselves in situations like I did on the N51, like I talked about earlier. I would say this is one of the things where an open mind is very important.

Anjobe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, no, lots of people tootle around Dublin and the suburbs, and seldom see bad winter conditions. They could probably drive their whole lives on Triangular Ling Lang Summers and not know the difference.

Hence the last part of my post, which you selectively failed to quote. Some drivers may find they need winter tyres, many don't. The drivers you describe above clearly don't, which makes your argument self-defeating.

dashcamdanny

The second hand tyre people always seem to have loads of nearly new branded winters from germany.

25 quid a pop.

BreadnBuddha

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Stuff is simple.
OP Buy a good set of All Weathers Hankook, Goodyear ..whatever research online .
In a few months time if you decide you have enough money then buy a set of Summers and if you can get a 4 cheap rims from a scrappy for €80 Euro or less all the better if you can't , it really doesn't matter. That's if you can afford summer tyres if you cant just keep driving the All weathers cause they really are good tyres on all surfaces.

Those who say you don't need Winter tyres in Ireland are theoretically correct- You dont.

You will have great peace of mind in bad weather on good all seasons . Some people will argue that winter tyres will give you 'Extra' peace of mind etc etc in the same way driving with your side lights on on a hot summer day will give you that same 'Extra' peace of mind etc etc It really depends on how much of a health & safety geek you are.

Also if you are keeping a car for 1, 2 years max your simply wasting money on winter tyres if you buy all season that money isn't wasted in that you can simply drive out the remainder of your car's duration on them because their 'All' weather.


The winter tyre lot can be a little irritable if I'm honest because they're posting on/starting threads every winter gloating abot how superior they are/feel and how 'necessary' these tyres are (all incorrect). Thankfully not too much of that the last few winters or the 'bring on the snow'/ 'praying for snow' type comments. like you see lads over in the weather forum making every year. But if there is a single full day of snow this winter you can be guaranteed the wayward, over the top and vomitus inducing gloating will start up all over again on motors.

And the 'you don't need winter tyres in Ireland' lot can be equally irritable when someone who has invested in winter tyres and actually experienced the benefits, real world not in a hypothetical world, asserts that they've made a sensible decision to go with winter tyres. Or all season tyres. Both much more suited to the range of winter driving conditions likely to be experienced by many drivers in Ireland than a set of summer tyres being used by the 'sure I've never had a problem with mine' brigade.

Sure why not forget about ABS, pre-tensioned seatbelts, airbags, side impact protection and all the other safety enhancements. Why not? Because these things are all there for the situations that occur outside of the normal driving experience. Just like driving on a road surface that's not what you'll experience on a summer day, be it a bit wet or bone dry.

Don't need them? That's not a black and white answer. Lots of people need them and know it, so they buy them. Lots of others don't know it and just make excuses out of ignorance or defense instead of keeping an open mind. Others still will try to ridicule those who value their safety and their considerable investment in a car. But sure it's Ireland, sure it'll be grand, won't it? :rolleyes:

christy c

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The second hand tyre people always seem to have loads of nearly new branded winters from germany.

25 quid a pop.

I think you may have opened another can of worms with second hand tyres. Could be fine but could also be buying tyres with problems not obvious to the naked eye

CJhaughey

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Those who say you don't need Winter tyres in Ireland are theoretically correct- You dont.

So Mike, which Winter tyres have you used?

Tail Docker

Tail Docker wrote: »

I'd imagine many ranting against winter tyres drive mainly on main-roads/towns. When it is frosty where we are(bogs of kildare) - just making it to a main road is an expedition down 1 track skating rinks. Once on the main road, you can drive on with everyone else.

Not only did I drive around the absolute back roads of country galway during both of the bad bad winters but I did it on bald budget tyres on a rwd car as I was broke at the time and it never stopped new going anywhere all through the bad spell, in fact I had great fun sliding the car around.*

I will gladly take on anyone in a brake test on a cold wet road on my eagle F1's vs a winter tyre and I'm confident there will be little of no difference in stopping distance.

*it wasn't a good idea doing it and I would never do it again but the point was I got around and never backed away from a trip even in the worst of the weather.

Supergurrier

Eagle F1's are a hilariously grippy tyre, very soft compound

Gazzmonkey

Genuine question...

Are winter tyres & snow tyres the same thing?

braddun

no snow so no need for winter tires

whomitconcerns

braddun wrote: »

no snow so no need for winter tires

And with that we start the classification of what winter tyres are again.....

whomitconcerns

whomitconcerns wrote: »

And with that we start the classification of what winter tyres are again.....

It's what they are really designed for though so it's a fair point though. Snow is the only reason they are compulsory in many countries. Eve look at the comparison between summers and winters the difference is only marginal except when it snows then there is a massive difference hence this is their biggest advantage.

A good wet weather tyre will suffice!

whomitconcerns

ok..well I lived in Eastern europe for 2 yrs and the winter tyres have to be on by law from late october to march..they only have snow prob 20% of that time max. Yes in snow they are a 100% must, but the shorter stopping distances and better traction at 10' or less makes it worth it for me. Most of our winters are 10' or less and most of our winter mornings are 3'/4' or less.

You can see a lot of video evidence from online, Top Gear, 5th Gear, Autobild, etc all show wet and rainy 8/9 degree weather winter tyres outperforming summer and all season tyres.

Anyway each to their own. For me If I can get even a tiny advantage in a bad situation then I will take that option.

Zubeneschamali

Nolan Dry Leakage wrote: »

I will gladly take on anyone in a brake test on a cold wet road on my eagle F1's vs a winter tyre and I'm confident there will be little of no difference in stopping distance.

So, what, winter tyres and all the tests showing that they grip, steer and stop better are a giant conspiracy?

CJhaughey

Nolan Dry Leakage wrote: »

It's what they are really designed for though so it's a fair point though. Snow is the only reason they are compulsory in many countries. Eve look at the comparison between summers and winters the difference is only marginal except when it snows then there is a massive difference hence this is their biggest advantage.

Not true, This test shows that they have many advantages over summer tyres in cold and wet conditions. With snow the difference is even more stark two tests were unable to be completed because the summer Goodyear couldn't actually do the test.
With the two tests they did do their performance was less than 40% on snow braking and less than 30% on snow traction.
In the cold and wet tests they took 5m more to stop, thats roughly a car length.
I am sold on them, but as I said its a judgement call by the driver involved but in the country outside the main road network that gets gritted/salted I would seriously recommend them to people, especially if they have to drive on high ground. Posters here that say summers are fine should bear this in mind.
No-one in their right mind would recommend driving on bald tyres even in summer so why would they recommend not using winter tyres in winter apart from cost issues when the performance gap is very similar.

CJhaughey

CJhaughey wrote: »

Not true, This test shows that they have many advantages over summer tyres in cold and wet conditions. With snow the difference is even more stark two tests were unable to be completed because the summer Goodyear couldn't actually do the test.
With the two tests they did do their performance was less than 40% on snow braking and less than 30% on snow traction.
In the cold and wet tests they took 5m more to stop, thats roughly a car length.
I am sold on them, but as I said its a judgement call by the driver involved but in the country outside the main road network that gets gritted/salted I would seriously recommend them to people, especially if they have to drive on high ground. Posters here that say summers are fine should bear this in mind.
No-one in their right mind would recommend driving on bald tyres even in summer so why would they recommend not using winter tyres in winter apart from cost issues when the performance gap is very similar.

One car length is nothing, you could have more than that between two different cars or a person having split second slower reaction times.

The difference between bald tyres or budget tyres is multiple car lengths compared to premium tyres so it's a poor comparison as I said. The difference is marginal. Except in the bad snow (very rare) I've never seen anybody have a difficulty getting around in my rural area and winter tyres are unheard of.

Winter tyres are an expense I or most people could not justify.

whomitconcerns

FYI Winter tyres at 10 degrees...not trying to change anyones mind but worth a look to dispel some misconceptions. longer braking but much safer handling to offset. They still recommend them over others

CJhaughey

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Genuine question...

Are winter tyres & snow tyres the same thing?

You can broadly categorise winter tyres into 3 camps, splitting out All-season tyres .
For the worst conditions, constant snow cover, ice etc you have Nordic studded tyres. These are not suitable for use here except in extreme conditions like 2009/2010 as the studs restrict speed and can wear badly on dry roads.

Then you have Nordic unstudded which give most of the performance of studs but in a tyre that can be used in dry conditions and higher speeds.
Again not really necessary for this country as temps are higher on average and wear rates can be excessive at higher temps.

Lastly you have winter tyres designed for Central European conditions that are designed for occasional snow but mostly cold, wet and slushy conditions these are the tyres that are most suitable for winter conditions here as they perform better than summer tyres in winter and wear rates are good compared to Nordic type tyres in warmer conditions.
Their snow performance is much better than summer tyres but not as good as Nordic type tyres.
Have a look at the Autoexpress test above^^
Swapped for summer tyres if necessary you should get a few years from a set if your mileage is average.

ednwireland

2 days this year i've been thankful of winter tyres driving down ice and snow covered roads (mind might not bother if i didnt live up 2 miles of hilly never gritted roads) firestone winterhawks

CJhaughey

Nolan Dry Leakage wrote: »

One car length is nothing, you could have more than that between two different cars or a person having split second slower reaction times.

Read the test parameters, these are multiple repeatable tests on the same car on a rail system.

Nolan Dry Leakage wrote: »

The difference between bald tyres or budget tyres is multiple car lengths compared to premium tyres so it's a poor comparison as I said. The difference is marginal. Except in the bad snow (very rare) I've never seen anybody have a difficulty getting around in my rural area and winter tyres are unheard of.

The ones that may have had difficulty may not have been able to get around and so may have just stayed off the road.

Winter tyres are an expense I or most people could not justify.[/QUOTE]
You are happy enough to use Eagle F1's which are premium tyres but cannot justify using a tyre which performs an order of magnitude better in winter?
Fair enough.
I can't really afford it either but my job entails a lot of driving in rural conditions and if it saves my NCB and car from being smashed up then they have paid for themselves.
Out of interest which winter tyres have you used?

LucidLife

whomitconcerns wrote: »

thats true..but its less likely to happen with winter tyres on. Never said it wouldnt happen..if i slip/slide once it will cost me more than the €600 I spent on winters. And since its one set on one set off, my summers will last a season longer also!

€600??? So you reckon they are worth more than €10 a week? Answer in February please

LucidLife

Nolan Dry Leakage wrote: »

It's what they are really designed for though so it's a fair point though. Snow is the only reason they are compulsory in many countries. Eve look at the comparison between summers and winters the difference is only marginal except when it snows then there is a massive difference hence this is their biggest advantage.

I live in Canada. The reason they are compulsory is not snow. It temperature.

CJhaughey

LucidLife wrote: »

€600??? So you reckon they are worth more than €10 a week? Answer in February please

But you are forgetting that these will last longer than 1 year if swapped out for summer tyres.
Spread that over 2-3 years and the price is 3 euro a week.
Cheap insurance IMO.

creedp

CJhaughey wrote: »

But you are forgetting that these will last longer than 1 year if swapped out for summer tyres.
Spread that over 2-3 years and the price is 3 euro a week.
Cheap insurance IMO.

They cost less than that as your summer tyres will now last longer so the're pretty much cost neutral in the long run. As I said previously, in my case they save me money as my winter tyre is a more common size and therefore cheaper than my summer tyre.

christy c

creedp wrote: »

my winter tyre is a more common size and therefore cheaper than my summer tyre.

How does that work? Different size rims or something?

CJhaughey

CJhaughey wrote: »

But you are forgetting that these will last longer than 1 year if swapped out for summer tyres.
Spread that over 2-3 years and the price is 3 euro a week.
Cheap insurance IMO.

What about the cost of either swapping the tyres onto your wheels (and risk of damaging them), or the cost of a new set of alloys which if you want your oem wheels will be big money, then there is tracking each time you change over to make sure nothing was put out each time you change etc all for minimum gains.

95%+ of people don't use winter tyres and in all but bad snow the country keeping moving and without any drama.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i took the middle route and got

4 hanook 4seasons 195/65/15 91 h 9 2013 date for 320 euro ( 85 a tyre ) for my yoke

and

4 hanook 4seasons 225/55/r16 99 v 2014 date for 520 euro ( 130 a tyre ) for the other halfs car.

after alot of research , i bargained the tyre place down .

so far they feel great .