Winter tires or normal?

Anjobe

stimpson wrote: »

<insert irony joke>

No "accidental" misquoting to suit your own agenda please!

EDIT: I changed my original post to make the meaning clearer, in case this was a genuine misunderstanding!

stimpson

murphyebass wrote: »

I get that but surely they're not designed to be stacked on top of each other in the conditions for long periods.

Also when they're in those conditions they're rolling on the road and being regularly inflated, cared for etc..

In fairness though I'm no expert, if its fine to do so be it. Just strikes me as a not ideal.

Kinda like when you see a car off the road for ages and the tyres are flat and the rubber goes all shabby.

It's the recommended way of stacking wheels with tyres fitted. You reduce the air pressure before storage. It's perfectly safe.

stimpson

Anjobe wrote: »

No "accidental" misquoting to suit your own agenda please!

You've made two contradictory statements. Do you think it shouldn't be challenged?

You're trying to frame the argument so that it's not provable, but TBH, that video says it all to me. Shorter stopping distance = safer car.

Zubeneschamali

creedp wrote: »

if you don't have a garage and have nowhere to store them then just

leave them on all year, like I do.

Anjobe

stimpson wrote: »

You've made two contradictory statements. Do you think it shouldn't be challenged?

No I didn't - you misunderstood - although I agree that the way that you only partially quoted the second statement makes it seem that way. I have edited that post to make the meaning clearer.

stimpson wrote: »

Shorter stopping distance = safer car.

Explain please? Obviously it does to some extent, but I don't think it will make much difference in the sort of accident that might lead to death or serious injury. Do you take other measures to reduce your stopping distance?

Yes, I think the argument is unprovable either way, which is why I think it should be left to individual drivers to decide what they should do.

stimpson

Anjobe wrote: »

No I didn't - you misunderstood - although I agree that the way that you only partially quoted the second statement makes it seem that way. I have edited that post to make the meaning clearer.



Explain please? Obviously it does to some extent, but I don't think it will make much difference in the sort of accident that might lead to death or serious injury. Do you take other measures to reduce your stopping distance?

Yes, I think the argument is unprovable either way, which is why I think it should be left to individual drivers to decide what they should do.

Sorry, but you contradicted yourself and changed the post after the fact.

One example where a shorter stopping distance is safer is where a child runs out in front of your car from between 2 parked cars at a distance where you will hit them on summer tyres. With winter tyres you just need a clean pair of underpants.

I'm a little embarrassed for you that this needs an explanation.

ardmacha

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

leave them on all year, like I do.

This, in the form of All Season tyres, is the way to go.

Anjobe

stimpson wrote: »

Sorry, but you contradicted yourself and changed the post after the fact.

No, I merely put quotation marks around "winter tyres are better and you would be stupid not to fit them". I never argued that "winter tyres are not better" per se. Please read and understand a post before you misquote it to suit your own argument.

stimpson wrote: »

One example where a shorter stopping distance is safer is where a child runs out in front of your car from between 2 parked cars at a distance where you will hit them on summer tyres. With winter tyres you just need a clean pair of underpants.

Hmmm, and how many children have been hurt like this?

stimpson wrote: »

I'm a little embarrassed for you that this needs an explanation.

You just can't resist can you? I knew that asking for consideration and respect of others opinions on the motors forum was laughably naive.

CiniO

Anjobe wrote: »

Then why does every poster who suggests that winter tyres are not needed here get jumped on?

The are not needed really unless we have snow on the roads.
All depends how often that happen.

CiniO

harrymagina wrote: »

You do not need winter tyres, just a bit of cop on. I have normal good tyres all year round and if you drive sensibly and not like a spastic you will be grand.

Well.
2 days ago we had a good bit of snow on the roads here where I live in Mayo.
We have 2 cars in the family. One has summer tyres while other has winter tyres.
On the same road, in car with summer tyres I was able to drive about 30km/h safely, while on the same road in other car with winter tyres, I could easily do 80km/h safely.
Here's the difference.

stimpson

Anjobe wrote: »

No, I merely put quotation marks around "winter tyres are better and you would be stupid not to fit them". I never argued that "winter tyres are not better" per se. Please read and understand a post before you misquote it to suit your own argument.

I didn't misquote you. That's what you typed (the first time at least...)

Hmmm, and how many children have been hurt like this?

I don't have the figures to hand. but in that scenario, it will prevent death or serious injury (which was your question)

You just can't resist can you? I knew that asking for consideration and respect of others opinions on the motors forum was laughably naive.

If you have a problem with my posts I suggest you report them.

Alun

murphyebass wrote: »

Where do people store the 4 tyres for the 10 months of the year that they dont need them??

Discount Tyres in Blanch will store them for you, and charge the standard fee of €15 per corner to swap them over. I did buy both sets from them mind you, I don't know if they'd do that for anyone. BTW I keep my winters on November through March just in case, so 5 months, not 2.

Anjobe

stimpson wrote: »

I didn't misquote you. That's what you typed (the first time at least...)

You partially quoted me to give a distorted impression of what I wrote. I thought you had misunderstood but clearly you did it deliberately. And now you are trying to give a false impression of how I edited my post.

I wrote "I am arguing against the attitude that winter tyres are better and you would be stupid not to fit them"

You quoted "I am arguing against the attitude that winter tyres are better"

My only change to my post was to add some quotation marks. My post was quoted in its entirety before you quoted it so you cannot deny this.

Anjobe

Anjobe wrote: »

You partially quoted me to give a distorted impression of what I wrote. I thought you had misunderstood but clearly you did it deliberately. And now you are trying to give a false impression of how I edited my post.

I wrote "I am arguing against the attitude that winter tyres are better and you would be stupid not to fit them"

You quoted "I am arguing against the attitude that winter tyres are better"

My only change to my post was to add some quotation marks. My post was quoted in its entirety before you quoted it so you cannot deny this.

Infact it was quoted in its entirety by yourself, before you extracted the partial quote!

stimpson

Anjobe wrote: »

You partially quoted me to give a distorted impression of what I wrote. I thought you had misunderstood but clearly you did it deliberately. And now you are trying to give a false impression of how I edited my post.

I wrote "I am arguing against the attitude that winter tyres are better and you would be stupid not to fit them"

You quoted "I am arguing against the attitude that winter tyres are better"

My only change to my post was to add some quotation marks. My post was quoted in its entirety before you quoted it so you cannot deny this.

I take it by your selective quoting, that you now accept there is at least one scenario where winter tyres could prevent death or serious injury?

Anjobe

stimpson wrote: »

I take it by your selective quoting, that you now accept there is at least one scenario where winter tyres could prevent death or serious injury?

I never argued against this possibility. But it is an entirely hypothetical situation, has it ever actually occurred? The argument is all about probability and risk, and in the absence of data to back it up is not very meaningful.

stimpson

Anjobe wrote: »

I never argued against this possibility. But it is an entirely hypothetical situation, has it ever actually occurred? The argument is all about probability and risk, and in the absence of data to back it up is not very meaningful.

5 mins on Google turns up this:

http://www.wheels.ca/news/its-official-winter-tires-really-do-cut-collisions/

If in doubt about the effectiveness of winter tires, just look at the collision rates in Germany before and after winter tires were made mandatory in 2008.

In 2005, there were 12,539 personal-injury collisions. In 2008, there were just 6,033. I’ll bet those 6,506 German drivers who didn’t crash would be happy to endorse how effective winter tires can be in keeping drivers out of emergency rooms.

Of course, there were improvements in car safety during those same years, but car improvements alone did not reduce collisions by more than 50 per cent.

Even Quebec, which already had 96 per cent of drivers using winter tires before they became mandatory in 2008, showed a 5-per-cent drop in collision injuries that year.

After the law received royal assent, winter-tire use increased to 98 per cent — meaning there was a 5-per-cent drop in collisions after just a 2-per-cent increase in winter-tire use. Deaths and serious injuries declined by 3 per cent.

These improvements can be attributed to the simple fact that winter tires have more grip, make collision-avoidance easier, and stop quicker than all-season tires.

Popoutman

I've had the Goodyear Vector 4-seasons on the car now for the past 2 years or so. I've found them to be pretty much the same as the summer-only tyres in the hot weather - had the car in France during 35 degree heat and they didn't dissolve. Therefore, for me, as good as summer-only tyres.

Over the past few months, I've been paying attention to the feel of the car as I go around roundabouts locally on the way to the office, and I've felt very little decrease in grip in the cool and wet conditions compared to the warm and wet conditions of the autumn.

However on the light snow and frosty conditions recently I found that I had 80% of the grip that I had during the summer, and it still took a lot to engage the traction control. I could easily climb the hill into my estate, that I had serious trouble with when I had the Bridgestone Potenzas under me.

So, to the OP, I'd heartily recommend that you purchase a set of proper all-season tyres for the car, and to drive as appropriate for the conditions as per usual. The all-seasons will give you so much more margin of error compared to ordinary tyres in marginal conditions, and for most people it should be worth the cost difference for that.

To those that consider that ordinary summer-only tyres are sufficient for this country, please reserve your comments until you've actually driven distance on proper all-seasons in marginal conditions. It really does appear that a lot of Irish drivers do not care about having the extra margin of error that proper all-seasons will give you for the 4 months a year that they will work better than ordinary tyres, and those drivers also forget that the premium all-seasons will also outperform the average summer-only for the rest of the year.

Satts

Do you need them ?? Depends on where you live.
Flat urban areas, you can get away without them, but could still benefit from them.

For me I live in an area 700 feet above sea level in which I have to travel down a series of hills in just 4 miles to reach a plateau of 140 feet above sea level, where I travel onwards.

Winter tyres make my life easier, means I can get to work now with out skids, with out loosing one/two days of work a year, feel safer. You still have to go extremely slow going down these hills, but you will get there.
Coming back home the same, up hill all the way, winter tyres are great going up hill, I can get home now without spinning the tyres once, I don't have to walk the last two miles home any more, which happened occasionally with summer tyres in really bad weather.

Once upon a time I looked in to getting a 4x4 jeep, I don't need it now with these tyres.

I may consider getting an All Wheel Drive car with winter tyres in the future, to improve my chances further.

CiniO

stimpson wrote: »

5 mins on Google turns up this:

http://www.wheels.ca/news/its-official-winter-tires-really-do-cut-collisions/

That's probably all true.

But how many collisions could be avoided in Ireland if everyone used winter tyres?

Anjobe

CiniO wrote: »

That's probably all true.

But how many collisions could be avoided in Ireland if everyone used winter tyres?

Is it perhaps a little colder in Germany during the winter?

stimpson

CiniO wrote: »

That's probably all true.

But how many collisions could be avoided in Ireland if everyone used winter tyres?

Until it happens we'll never know. I'll bet its more than zero.

harrymagina

whomitconcerns wrote: »

ahh.....please go do some reading on the topic...has been discussed argued and rejected so many times......Need depends on circumstances....benefits..there is no doubt of them

I don't disagree that there are benefits. But for a country like Ireland they are not needed.

joujoujou

harrymagina wrote: »

I don't disagree that there are benefits. But I don't need them.

FYP :pac:

Zubeneschamali

harrymagina wrote: »

I don't disagree that there are benefits. But for a country like Ireland they are not needed.

"I don't disagree that they are better. But better tyres are not needed."

Try saying that about brand name summer tyres over chinese rubbish, and see how silly it sounds.

CiniO

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

"I don't disagree that they are better. But better tyres are not needed."

Try saying that about brand name summer tyres over chinese rubbish, and see how silly it sounds.

Well winter tyres are needed when there is snow or sleet on the roads.
Question is how often it happens in Ireland.

Zubeneschamali

CiniO wrote: »

Well winter tyres are needed when there is snow or sleet on the roads.

Again the word "needed". You don't "need" good tyres, or seatbelts, or ABS, or crumple zones.

Winter tyres are hugely better than summer on snow and ice, but they are a good bit better even without snow, whenever the road temperature is less than 7 centigrade.

Do temperatures get that low in winter in Ireland? Yes, roughly once a day, and all night.

Barr

Quick question, what is the way to tell you have winter or summer tyres.

Is there a symbol or something to tell the difference ?

George Dalton

Winter tyres are usually called something which gives the game away.

EG
Dunlop Wintersport
Pirelli Snowcontrol
Vredestein Snowtrac
Etc

Also there will be a snow symbol on the sidewall:

minterno

Tail Docker wrote: »

The last frosty morning I passed 4 cars wrapped around ditches, one was a 131 and one a 141, the other two were older. All were wrecked to one degree or the other. I think the winter tyres I fitted are cheap compared to a trip to the ditch. We grit industrial estates and car parks, so are always out driving when conditions are dire.

I just smile resignedly when I hear lads saying winter tyres are a waste of time/ the AA don't reccomend them/they're a luxury.

I spent the winter of 2012/2013 in alberta ca and the locals drive in the packed snow at there normal pace,everyone has the winter tyres on and they allow decent speeds on icey snowy roads,as a previous poster stated the rubber in the tyres we use here get very hard in low temps wheas the winter ones stay soft giving better grip