Travellers jailed for attacking Gardai

corner of hells · 30-10-2014 11:56PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why are so many been let away with crimes and what really is the point in our Gardai catching them if they only get another suspended sentence.

This is a huge drain on our countries finances and also Garda time and resources also.

I always wanted to be a Gaurd but it is not a very appealing job anymore when we have corruption and a farce of a legal system they really all should be ashamed and judges should have to meet a standard and Gardai given more powers, better tools/equipment and also at least a tazer for protection.

When you say let away with crimes , do you mean getting acquitted or not charged at all or do you mean not being detected .A suspended sentence is a conviction with conditions.

Gardai could hardly blamed for the legal system , what powers do you think they need ?

Smiley92a · 30-10-2014 11:57PM

bubblypop wrote: »

How many travellers are there in Ireland? I'm not sure of numbers, but looking at census results it appears to be somewhere around 30,000.

What percentage of crime is committed by them? I don't know that either, but I'd be fairly happy that a huge percentage of reported/solved crime is committed by them.
In fact, I'd go so far as to imagine between 50 & 60% is.
That's a huge amount of crime committed by a relatively small amount of people.

Now you can shout racism if you like but that's what I have learned from experience.
Sorry if it doesn't suit pavee point.

Sure, I'll call racism on that!

"How much of the nation's crime is committed by Travellers? I don't know. Probably about 60%. That's a big number I just made up, isn't it?"

ZeroThreat · 30-10-2014 11:59PM

Smiley92a wrote: »

Sure, I'll call racism on that!

"How much of the nation's crime is committed by Travellers? I don't know. Probably about 60%. That's a big number I just made up, isn't it?"

Fair enough on criticising the poster for plucking figures out of thin air or based on anecdotal experience, but why do so many people in Ireland consider travellers to be a 'race'?
They're genetically indistinguishable from the settled Irish, despite pavee point's attempts to claim they share the same heritage as the roma community...

Archeron · 31-10-2014 12:00AM

"They threw missiles at gardai, including a small motor."

Somebody threw a toyota yaris at a cop?

Mountainsandh · 31-10-2014 12:02AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Many travellers aren't looking for employment, many seem happy enough to exist in the "black economy". Stop trying to put all the blame on "discrimination", travellers have to take a huge slice of the blame for their own situation.

+1
Some traveller ladies in particular show remarkable strength of character to persevere to an honourable educational level, although they are often actively discouraged by relatives. I have known traveller girls with great social skills, bright, and enough education to be employed. Sadly I think their efforts were in vain, not because people were unwilling to employ them, but because they were discouraged from taking the job due to cultural/family pressure and commitments. I don't think the girls resented that much, they seemed happy either way; awful waste and disheartening imo.
Employers didn't really come into the equation.

demanufactured · 31-10-2014 12:03AM

They are the same race as the rest of us... Therefore it's not racism.

Annasopra · 31-10-2014 12:05AM

tom_k wrote: »

But many companies would employ them if only they'd apply for positions. As I stated in an earlier post, I have worked with travellers in the past who got their jobs because they were willing to apply, sit a basic interview, show up every morning and do what the job required.

A huge amount of their community lack qualifications and marketable skills but the solution to this is engagement with education and training programmes. I'm not aware of any serious employer who'd bin a genuine application just because it's from a traveller. I know I wouldn't.

They cant be that direct because its illegal. I know many people who wouldnt hire travellers.

flutered · 31-10-2014 12:05AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A lot of this really is a vicious circle caused by and resulting in discrimination. A lot of unemployment is high because the settled community wont employ them. Some crime results because there is so much unemployment. Therefore because there is more crime this causes more discrimination.

they do not wish to work as in a steady job, this obviously interfers with exta curricular activitys, they get the dole the day they come of age to collect it, they do not have to jump thro hoops like the settled community to revieve it, also they are required to bring in a daily wage outside of the dole, its part of their culture, i had a chance to get a traveler a sports scholarship to the u.s. provided a program was followed, the clan godfather told me in no uncertain terms this was out of the question, school was to be finished early, early marraige within the family was required.

Annasopra · 31-10-2014 12:06AM

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Fair enough on criticising the poster for plucking figures out of thin air or based on anecdotal experience, but why do so many people in Ireland consider travellers to be a 'race'?
They're genetically indistinguishable from the settled Irish, despite pavee point's attempts to claim they share the same heritage as the roma community...

When did Pavee Point claim that? Got a link to this claim?

31-10-2014 12:35AM

Smiley92a wrote: »

Sure, I'll call racism on that!

"How much of the nation's crime is committed by Travellers? I don't know. Probably about 60%. That's a big number I just made up, isn't it?"

Well while I don't know the exact figure, because I'd imagine that's against data protection, I'm just guessing.
From experience.

Smiley92a · 31-10-2014 12:39AM

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Fair enough on criticising the poster for plucking figures out of thin air or based on anecdotal experience, but why do so many people in Ireland consider travellers to be a 'race'?
They're genetically indistinguishable from the settled Irish, despite pavee point's attempts to claim they share the same heritage as the roma community...

All races are genetically indistinguishable. Race is a fiction.

Racism, and it's effects, however, are very real.
As for Travellers, Pavee Point would argue they're an ethnicity. It's a fine distinction in most ways, but a big one is that you can prove an ethnicity exists. I can't remember the EU's exact criteria, but I think it included a shared experience, history, culture and language. Travellers have got all that.

The state has no interest in recognising it, obviously. Partly because they might find themselves forced to accommodate Travellers in ways they haven't before, but mostly, I think, because it wouldn't be popular to do so. I mean, take a look at this thread.

As for why they call it racism, well, no one seriously believes in genetic racism anymore, so racial hatered is based on ethnicity, on the way a group's culture and way of life is perceived to be different and wrong. Really, that's what racism was always based on, claiming there was a genetic difference was more of an excuse that made it all more reasonable-sounding.

There are Travellers who think getting recognition as an ethnicity might actually make things worse, give their opponents another weapon by claiming they're all the same, but people do that anyway.

Funnily enough, admitting there's no genetic difference between races can actually make it easier to get away with being racist nowadays. "Sure, I'm not racist! Race doesn't even exist! You'd have to be loopy to believe all that Nazi stuff. No, what I mean is that those Travellers/Africans/Jews/Muslims/Roma/Protestants/Catholics/WhateverGroupIWantToHaveAGoAt have got a BAD CULTURE that's just not compatible with ours!" Of course, carried in this is the assumption that all Travellers/Africans etc etc are all the same, rather than individuals. Remember that post further up that said Travellers need to "take a long hard look at themselves" as if they've got some sort of hive mind?

I can see the connection Travellers might have with Roma. People hate them for basically the same reasons.

Anyway, are you starting to see what I'm getting at? Ireland has lots of crime, but no one would suggest the Irish have 'a problem with criminality'. Travellers or Roma on the other hand....

smurgen · 31-10-2014 12:41AM

Anyone threading or undermining the guardai needs to have the book thrown at them.they're all that stand between us and chaos.two years doesn't cut it in this case.less face it.this individual isn't going to be reformed after that time.he'll be out endangering others in no time.

dublinman1990 · 31-10-2014 12:43AM

That young scrote with 92 convictions should have gone away for a much longer time than 2 years.

Assaulting Gardai on duty should be at least a ten year sentence or more for these type of scumbags.

corner of hells · 31-10-2014 12:46AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Well while I don't know the exact figure, because I'd imagine that's against data protection, I'm just guessing.
From experience.

I think theres a report recently released that traveller men have anywhere between 5 and 10 times more of a chance going to prison than other groups.I think its much higher with traveller women.
I don't remember any detail about types of crime commited , though it suggests higher conviction rate or a disproportionate amount being convicted.

Food for thought , I suppose.

Smiley92a · 31-10-2014 12:50AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Well while I don't know the exact figure, because I'd imagine that's against data protection, I'm just guessing.
From experience.

More likely no one's bothered counting. I think Traveller was only put on the census somewhere around 2004.

But come on. 60% is crazy.

Kristopherus · 31-10-2014 12:51AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

They cant be that direct because its illegal. I know many people who wouldnt hire travellers.

Would you?

TallGlass · 31-10-2014 01:03AM

ZeroThreat wrote: »

They're genetically indistinguishable from the settled Irish, despite pavee point's attempts to claim they share the same heritage as the roma community...

I hope to god, that Irish travellers get upset about this. I wouldn't even class Irish travelers in the same group even league as the Roma Gypsies.

I know people from Romania they say they are not even Romanian, I class Irish Travelers as Irish there are our own, just a bit stuck in the past maybe. The Roma Gypsies are a law on themselves and do as they please. Garda, Government they do what they want, when they want. I would go as far to say the males of the Roma Gypsies are into some serious orgainised crime.

31-10-2014 01:03AM

Crime figures do not include the ethnicity of offenders.
Presumably that's a racist thing to do.

If they did include it I think we could all see exactly what was happening in this country.

Smiley92a · 31-10-2014 01:09AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Crime figures do not include the ethnicity of offenders.
Presumably that's a racist thing to do.

If they did include it I think we could all see exactly what was happening in this country.

You really think more than half of all crime in this country is being carried out by 40,000 people, half of whom are under 15?

Those are some dedicated, enterprising criminals those Travellers have got

keano25 · 31-10-2014 01:13AM

Omackeral wrote: »

Threatening to kill a Garda. Subsequently producing a claw hammer and saying you'll open his head. All while banned from driving for 20 years and with 92 previous conviction.

Traveller or settled, that is the rap sheet of an utter scrote.

If he's been nabbed 92 times, how many times has he got away with things..

TallGlass · 31-10-2014 01:13AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Crime figures do not include the ethnicity of offenders.
Presumably that's a racist thing to do.

If they did include it I think we could all see exactly what was happening in this country.

Don't see whats the harm, might put a few myths to be. I say our 'own' are robbing us just as much % wise as any of the other groups.

punisher5112 · 31-10-2014 01:14AM

keano25 wrote: »

If he's been nabbed 92 times, how many times has he got away with things..

I would say a hell of a lot.

he is unlucky to have been caught so many times out of probably thousands of illegal activities.

Mountainsandh · 31-10-2014 01:19AM

Smiley92a wrote: »

You really think more than half of all crime in this country is being carried out by 40,000 people, half of whom are under 15?

Those are some dedicated, enterprising criminals those Travellers have got

A proportional study would be very interesting : of the overall travelling community, what percentage of males, females, age groups have convictions ? This could easily be paralleled with percentages for non nationals, and nationals non- travellers.

31-10-2014 01:19AM

Smiley92a wrote: »

You really think more than half of all crime in this country is being carried out by 40,000 people, half of whom are under 15?

Those are some dedicated, enterprising criminals those Travellers have got

Honestly? Yes I do.
There are certain parts of our community whose whole life is dedicated to stealing, robbing and burglerising the rest of the country.
And I so honestly believe that the majority of those crimes are committed by a small percentage of our population. One that we can't possibly understand because they are a completely different 'ethnicity' to the majority.

Smiley92a · 31-10-2014 01:21AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

A proportional study would be very interesting : of the overall travelling community, what percentage of males, females, age groups have convictions ? This could easily be paralleled with percentages for non nationals, and nationals non- travellers.

To what end?

SparkySpitfire · 31-10-2014 01:30AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Honestly? Yes I do.
There are certain parts of our community whose whole life is dedicated to stealing, robbing and burglerising the rest of the country.
And I so honestly believe that the majority of those crimes are committed by a small percentage of our population. One that we can't possibly understand because they are a completely different 'ethnicity' to the majority.

What...

Bongalongherb · 31-10-2014 01:37AM

Once the politicians have their main armed security outside their abode they feel grand and safe. Their personal instincts and memory regarding the rest of the citizens of Ireland are non-functioning... as 'living in a different reality to the rest of us-scenario'.

It is obviously the case when you look at gardai bringing a criminal into court explaining to the judge that this person has 90 previous convictions, and the judge (well one with a brain) would say.. right, this vermin has had enough chances, and will be sentenced appropriately.

But No, we are soo over-stretched regarding prison sentencing we have no-where to put them. Build a fecking prison so. The economy this, the economy that, it's moving Forward and UP. If this is the case, then why doesn't the government build a new prison or two instead of raping the working-taxpaying-citizen ?.

Build a couple of new prisons and lets be done with the new justice-system scenario of... ahh we'll give them community work of 200 hours that they have a year to complete. Fecking twilight-zone this government and justice-judges are living in.

the_syco · 31-10-2014 01:40AM

TallGlass wrote: »

I know people from Romania they say they are not even Romanian

Because Roma are not specifically Romanian. They're actually Indian. And live in Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, Egypt, Kosovo, Republic of Macedonia, and Bulgaria.

BlaasForRafa · 31-10-2014 01:46AM

Smiley92a wrote: »

I can see the connection Travellers might have with Roma. People hate them for basically the same reasons.

What reasons do you think that "people" have, hmm?

SparkySpitfire · 31-10-2014 01:46AM

Here you go bubblypop, I think you were a bit off with your 60% figure.

http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AITHS2010_TechnicalReport2_HR_PartC.pdf

In this prison health survey they count the number of travellers (male and female) and other Irish people on page 153:

Male 3,537 (96.5%) Male Traveller: 299 (93.4%)
Female 129 (3.5%) Female Traveller: 21 (6.6%)
Total 3,666 (100%) Traveller: 320 (100%)

So...320/3,666 = 8.7% ish (If my maths is correct!! :pac: ) Sure you were only around 51% off there.

Travellers jailed for attacking Gardai

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