Travellers jailed for attacking Gardai

Barely There

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

So you weren't really wondering then?

Why - do you believe your post answers my question?
It doesn't unless the answer is '1 person'.

Frigga_92

Barely There wrote: »

Why - do you believe your post answers my question?
It doesn't unless the answer is '1 person'.

What?

Barely There

Cormac... wrote: »

Would love to get your take on it if a family of them moved in next door to you in 12 months

I'd probably judge them as individuals based on their behaviour, rather than assuming some common characteristic would apply to them based on their ethnicity - because you know, that would be racist.

Are you generally racist about certain ethnic groups?

eviltwin

eamonnq wrote: »

As you did not answer the all travellers question I assume that means not ALL travellers ?

Of course not ALL travellers. The problem isn't ALL travellers. But on the whole you don't get settled people living in caravans or in halting sites shut off from the rest of society and left to get on with it. You don't get settled people living transient lifestyles moving from place to place. Travellers have a lower life expectancy, are less likely to stay in education, less likely to work than settled people. Domestic violence and male on male violence is normal. If that is not a substandard lifestyle I don't know what is.

DeadHand

Barely There wrote: »

That's fine - your post is just anecdote masquerading as evidence.

So you challenge the forum to produce accounts of their experiences but dismiss any experience offered out of hand if it doesn't support your own narrow agenda?

Again, feeble.

Dr Turk Turkelton

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

I really take issue with this post.
In the past 12 months we have had 2 different traveller families move from one area about 20 minutes away from our house to another area about 5 minutes away from our house.
They left both places in a disgraceful manner and went about their daily lives while they were in both places in a disgraceful manner.

My husband was unemployed when they were living 5 minutes from our house and there was days when he didn't want to leave the house because they were constantly driving around the area checking places out, came up our driveway a few times for a look and one afternoon when my husband was at home one of the dogs started going absolutely ballistic and my husband walked around the side of the house to find some dirty fooker pulling one of our windows open, the dog ran around the side of the house (big german shepherd) and your man jumped in the car and they headed off. My husband called the gardai and they came out to the house, the guy had left a dirty hand print on the window and the gardai then radioed to the station in the next town (the direction they headed in) to warn the gardai.
I have posted in another thread about all of our immediate neighbours having been broken into (we think the only reason they stayed away from our house was because of the dogs), one of them an elderly woman, her home was broken into twice and she now refuses to live there and is renting a house in town, the gardai attributed all of that to the travellers in the area.

It was another 6 months before they were actually forced to leave.

I find it very hard to accept that there isn't a factual basis for the outrage expressed by the majority of the posters in this thread.

Edit to add - the above is just what has happened in the last 12 months.

Won't be long before the usual eejits come out to say your dog should be put down for being racist!

EazyD

Of the considerable number of times I've come across travellers, I can't say it's been pleasant. I used to work in the local shop and had problems week in, week out with shoplifting, abuse of other customer's, fighting, you name it.

Having said that, what got me most was the fact each and every time, the mother of these scrotes would be waiting in the car outside to collect them after a haul. When I did intervene (as my boss would expect), I was followed home numerous times after work. I wasn't getting paid anywhere near enough to put up with that kind of crap.

wexie

EazyD wrote: »

Of the considerable number of times I've come across travellers, I can't say it's been pleasant. I used to work in the local shop and had problems week in, week out with shoplifting, abuse of other customer's, fighting, you name it.

Having said that, what got me most was the fact each and every time, the mother of these scrotes would be waiting in the car outside to collect them after a haul. When I did intervene (as my boss would expect), I was followed home numerous times after work. I wasn't getting paid anywhere near enough to put up with that kind of crap.

Now now, I thought we'd established that first hand experience is only valid if accompanied with either video or photographic evidence.

Otherwise it's just an 'anecdote'

:rolleyes:

zl1whqvjs75cdy

My girlfriend used to work in retail in our town. Travellers would regularly come in and steal as much as possible. She was told by management to say nothing to them as they were dangerous. My gf is a bit stubborn so ignored that advice and confronted the travellers the next time they came in. They left with nothing but after work they were waiting for her in the car park. I drove down to collect her and they followed us around for 15 minutes before we drove into a garda station and they left. They regularly waited for her after work from then on.

Luckily she got a new job quickly after that but the guards were useless and did nothing. Suppose this doesn't count as evidence either.

Barely There

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Suppose this doesn't count as evidence either.

You're a quick learner.

Well done.

shruikan2553

eviltwin wrote: »

Of course not ALL travellers. The problem isn't ALL travellers. But on the whole you don't get settled people living in caravans or in halting sites shut off from the rest of society and left to get on with it. You don't get settled people living transient lifestyles moving from place to place. Travellers have a lower life expectancy, are less likely to stay in education, less likely to work than settled people. Domestic violence and male on male violence is normal. If that is not a substandard lifestyle I don't know what is.

Its a coincidence. To say otherwise makes you a racist

Generic Dreadhead

Barely There wrote: »

I'd probably judge them as individuals based on their behaviour, rather than assuming some common characteristic would apply to them based on their ethnicity - because you know, that would be racist.

Are you generally racist about certain ethnic groups?

Jesus wept, you are all up in arms over this aren't you? :pac:

That high horse does not like heights, must be hard to control it in an ivory tower

Let's make a list, as an informed group of intelligent adults of good experiences you've had with Travellers.

Who will be 1st?

1)

SEPT 23 1989

Cormac... wrote: »

Jesus wept, you are all up in arms over this aren't you? :pac:

That high horse does not like heights, must be hard to control it in an ivory tower

Let's make a list, as an informed group of intelligent adults of good experiences you've had with Travellers.

Who will be 1st?

1)

you are wasting your time the only time these apologists have good experiences with these people is when they are on their best behavior looking for more handouts from the state

eviltwin

I live beside travellers. I've also done some volunteer work with a local travellers group. I have never been personally targeted by anyone in their community but they can be anti social. Things that have been an issue are minordisagreements turning violent, this happened every few days when I was volunteering and we always had a hard time trying to break it up. My neighbours constantly park in front of my driveway, they fight constantly, the Guards are regular visitors, despite having a house they seem to do most of their socialising in the front garden which is noisy, rubbish is everywhere, their kids don't go to school regularly and are left minding younger siblings.

This is I'm told the travellers way and while that might suit their previously transient lifestyle it doesn't work in a settled estate. You can't just transplant people without showing them how to assimilate. But that's what happens and its not working.

Mountainsandh

Barely There wrote: »

I'm always amused at the amount of outrage any Traveller thread attracts.

I wonder how much direct interaction posters have had with a member of the Traveller community in the past 12 months - reading stories in the media doesn't count, I'm talking about a direct interaction.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say for the vast majority the answer is '

Now now, you are assuming a lot. A lot of people are in contact, and directly interact with travellers weekly.
I interact with travellers on a weekly basis, several days a week.

Barely There

Cormac... wrote: »

Jesus wept, you are all up in arms over this aren't you? :pac:)

Not especially, no - you seem far more invested trying to justify your position tbh.

Cormac... wrote: »

Let's make a list, as an informed group of intelligent adults of good experiences you've had with Travellers.

Who will be 1st?

1)

Maybe you should make a list of posters who are racist against certain ethnic groups instead?

You can put yourself at the top as I assume by avoiding my question, we can infer your answer is 'yes'?

Generic Dreadhead

EDIT: Not even worth it

cloud493

I work retail in a supermarket, and there's a traveller camp just down the road, so they come in pretty much every day, and they're awful.

tastyt

I know what will help, let's all give the next traveller we see a big hug and tell them we just wanna help and educate them....And that it's ok fir them to do what they want because it's not their fault that they like to steal and harrass, it's our fault for working and having stuff to steal.

They're actually a great bunch of lads if you think about it

eamonnq

eviltwin wrote: »

Domestic violence and male on male violence is normal. If that is not a substandard lifestyle I don't know what is.

What do you mean by 'normal' in this instance ?

Is it normal because it is 'accepted within their community' ? Or is it glorified to the level of arranged bare knuckle boxing that makes it normal ?

Barely There

Cormac... wrote: »

EDIT: Not even worth it

A man without the courage of his convictions it would seem :rolleyes:

Pedro K

Barely There wrote: »

That's fine - your post is just anecdote masquerading as evidence.

You make a statement regarding the lack of direct interaction you think people have with travellers. A poster provides some stories of her direct interaction with travellers. You dismiss it as anecdote masquerading as evidence.

Statistics are always going to be sparce for travellers because they generally don't do surveys or become involved in life outside their circle.

However here's two statistics, which I'm not going to link to because I have done in the past and they're easily found online. 86% of travellers are on social welfare. And they make up 5% of our prison population despite only making up around 0.5% of our general population.

As for anecdotes about direct interaction, I'll give you some, even though it won't sway you, if only to make you aware that many of us have indeed had direct interaction with travellers.

School. Various fights, when they bothered to come in. A traveller going around putting a drill through junior cert projects of people in my class. Projects they've worked a long time on. A traveller assaulting a teacher.

The square shopping centre on any given Sunday afternoon. Fights outside on the third level, security guards chasing groups of them around the place and kicking them out.

Halloween a number of years ago. One of them tried to rob me. I defended myself, before being set upon by a load of them.

Friend of mine fighting in a white collar boxing night. Two travellers on the card. Their respective clans gathered to support. All hell breaks loose. Fighting in the crowd, Tops off, blood spilled, gardai called, bar closed early, night ruined for everyone.

Work. When I was in the bookie shop three travellers tried to slow count me. When I worked in a bar, well, do I even need to say?!

There's more. I could go on. In all my dealings with travellers, and there have been dealings, I've only ever experienced one decent traveller. One. A girl in school who went on to do her leaving cert. Every single other experience I've had with travellers, in both a personal and professional capacity, has been bad.

Barely There

Pedro K wrote: »

Every single other experience I've had with travellers, in both a personal and professional capacity, has been bad.

Probably says more about you and your prejudices tbh, seeing as your the common denominator in all your 'stories'.

Pedro K

Barely There wrote: »

Probably says more about you and your prejudices tbh, seeing as your the common denominator in all your 'stories'.

Feeble attempt altogether. You obviously didn't read any of the examples I listed above that.

Edit: if you did you'd see that although I was there, I had absolutely no bearing on their behaviour.

EDIT II: And yes, my prejudice was what caused members of the travelleing community to try rob my wallet, put a drill through my classmates projects, start a fight in a hotel function room etc etc.

Cyber Ghost

92 previous convictions and countless hundreds he's gotten away with

Generic Dreadhead

Ok. now i'm 100% sure you're trolling, I can safely dismiss every unimportant thing you say hand over fist. Your thoughts, views and opinions are no longer valid in a conversation with me

Barely There

Pedro K wrote: »

Feeble attempt altogether. You obviously didn't read any of the examples I listed above that.

Edit: if you did you'd see that although I was there, I had absolutely no bearing on their behaviour.

Well, you managed to come up with about 5 anecdotes of fairly minor stuff - some of which didn't even involve you - covering the course of, what, a decade?

Have a little think for yourself about the number of negative incidents you've had involving members of the settled community over the same period.

Barely There

Cormac... wrote: »

Ok. now i'm 100% sure you're trolling, I can safely dismiss every unimportant thing you say hand over fist. Your thoughts, views and opinions are no longer valid in a conversation with me

Yes, I note you still refuse to answer the question as to whether you're a racist or not.

A simple yes or no will do.

eviltwin

eamonnq wrote: »

What do you mean by 'normal' in this instance ?

Is it normal because it is 'accepted within their community' ? Or is it glorified to the level of arranged bare knuckle boxing that makes it normal ?

It's nomal in that its seen as acceptable.

kstand

Barely There wrote: »

Probably says more about you and your prejudices tbh, seeing as your the common denominator in all your 'stories'.

Are you for real? He has rattled off the top of his head quite a number of incidents that he has seen and in one case where he has been set upon and you come back with it is to do with him and his prejudices? He has just given a list of real life incidents - and you are coming back at him that it is because he is prejudiced?
How can anyone hold any sort of a rational debate about anything when they come up against this sort of irrational train of thought bordering on total stupidity.
This is nothing to do with prejudices - much as you would like it to fit your own agenda.
People are entitled to think what they want based on experience.