Travellers jailed for attacking Gardai

Firewalkwithme

It looks like the small minority of bad apples in the Traveller community is giving the rest a bad name again....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/travellers-jailed-for-attack-on-garda%C3%AD-at-halting-site-1.1982351

I like this bit -

Mark Lynam, defending, said Thomas McDonagh was taking his newborn child out of the car at the time and thought there was a threat to the baby. He said his client lost control of himself. He grabbed the garda’s official notebook as they tried to take details of the car down and told them “f**k off or you’re dead”.

He then grabbed a claw hammer and raised it over his head in a threatening manner, telling gardaí: “If you don’t leave I will open your head”.

Thomas McDonagh is 22 and has 92 previous convictions and has previously been banned from driving for 20 years. A 2 year sentance seems very lenient considering his record.

Omackeral

Threatening to kill a Garda. Subsequently producing a claw hammer and saying you'll open his head. All while banned from driving for 20 years and with 92 previous conviction.

Traveller or settled, that is the rap sheet of an utter scrote.

PizzamanIRL

Subla

KERSPLAT!

MOD

8 Posts in and the bashing is in full swing. Discuss the topic or don't post. Report any trolling, etc

Awkward Badger

How the hell can a 22 year old have 92 convictions ? The Gardai there are risking their lives pinching these vermin and then judges are wagging fingers at them. What the fcuk is the point in any of it if they are not stopped committing further offences ??

Ruu

Doesn't matter who you are, 92 convictions is beyond a joke. "If I let you free, promise not to do bad things, ok?". Is that how it went each time?

michael999999

Ruu wrote: »

Doesn't matter who you are, 92 convictions is beyond a joke. "If I let you free, promise not to do bad things, ok?". Is that how it went each time?

Ah but think how much money hes barrister has made from free legal aid representing this fine young lad!

Berserker

Awkward Badger wrote: »

How the hell can a 22 year old have 92 convictions ?

If you are a serial offender who has been active since your early teens then you could have that many. His offenses are probably all of the less serious variety, eg petty theft etc.

Holsten

Why is this news?

This happens day in day out in the courts.

The Moldy Gowl

I love stories about travellers.

Jerichoholic

Berserker wrote: »

If you are a serial offender who has been active since your early teens then you could have that many. His offenses are probably all of the less serious variety, eg petty theft etc.

Ah yeah, he probably didn't do any harm....92 times before.

catallus

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I love stories about travellers.

Like the ones about how about 10% die before they're 2 years of age?

The endemic unemployment through discrimination?

The escalated suicide rate?

The abominable poverty rate?

The third-world life-expectancy?

Timberrrrrrrr

catallus wrote: »

Like the ones about how about 10% die before they're 2 years of age?

The endemic unemployment through discrimination?

The escalated suicide rate?

The abominable poverty rate?

The third-world life-expectancy?

The life they choose to live?

Molester Stallone II

Hes a career criminal and when he's released, he'll do something stupid and go away for a much longer stretch, hopefully he doesn't have enough time outside to get to conviction No.100

punisher5112

I find this island so backwards it's unreal.

The sytem protects the thugs/criminals more then the people it should be there for.

I wish the EU would stamp some of this messing out seen as they own us now.

cloud493

Well thats just silly. When can we say enough is enough with people like that?

eviltwin

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The life they choose to live?

In fairness they can't help what they are born into. I'm sure some have ambitions beyond the norm but they aren't exactly blessed with parents or a community that supports their aspirations. Most parents would be delighted to have a child that wants to stay in school and gain a few qualifications, that seems to be actively discouraged in some traveller families. The real shame is that the State just lets it happen.

Timberrrrrrrr

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness they can't help what they are born into. I'm sure some have ambitions beyond the norm but they aren't exactly blessed with parents or a community that supports their aspirations. Most parents would be delighted to have a child that wants to stay in school and gain a few qualifications, that seems to be actively discouraged in some traveller families. The real shame is that the State just lets it happen.

I agree with you but they still choose to live that lifestyle and then some choose to get into a life of crime. That's not traveller bashing as i know settled people also choose to take up a life of crime.

wicklowstevo

Holsten wrote: »

Why is this news?

This happens day in day out in the courts.

actually it doesn't unfortunately,

in the last week there has been six cases where gardai have been assaulted and in some cases permanently injured , this is the first case i ve seem where some one has actually got jail for it, although two years with one suspended , and a third remission as standard he will in all likley do 8 months

Kristopherus

That judge should be given some further training in dealing with that type of scum. Perhaps a month living in that caravan site would enlighten him.

eviltwin

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I agree with you but they still choose to live that lifestyle and then some choose to get into a life of crime. That's not traveller bashing as i know settled people also choose to take up a life of crime.

Oh I agree, all too often with anyone who has a bad start in life it becomes an excuse. People don't want to take personal responsibility but its horrible to see young kids in families where you know they are raised to fail in society. They will get zero encouragement, they are kept off school and have very little help with their education. What hope do they have? I just don't understand why the state allows that kind of lifestyle to flourish.

Berserker

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Ah yeah, he probably didn't do any harm....92 times before.

I was answering the poster's question as to how someone could building up such an offense list.

I'm not defending him in any way. I would buy an island off the coast of Galway and stick him in it along with similar convicts.

keeponhurling

Surely all sentences should increase if you've already had previous warning.

92 ?

Should be locked away for a very very long time

mikeym

Respectable people hit Gardai too

PropJoe10

How would it even be possible to have 92 previous convictions at the age of 22 and still be walking the streets? Its unbelievable.

willmunny1990

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

It looks like the small minority of bad apples in the Traveller community is giving the rest a bad name again....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/travellers-jailed-for-attack-on-garda%C3%AD-at-halting-site-1.1982351

I like this bit -



Thomas McDonagh is 22 and has 92 previous convictions and has previously been banned from driving for 20 years. A 2 year sentance seems very lenient considering his record.

LOL

This is a great line that is constantly thrown out by traveller apologists.

I just don't accept this drivel anymore, in the area I live its very much the majority that are causing problems as opposed to the minority and its the same elsewhere.

This has to be accepted if we are ever going to deal with the problems these people cause, they operate outside the law and It gets accepted because its their "culture".

They Dont have to obey the rules of the road, littering and wide spread animal cruelty are but a few major problems these people cause all over Ireland everyday.

Sonderkommando

Anyone with 92 convictions should be jailed for life. The judicial system in this country is sickening.

tom_k

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness they can't help what they are born into. I'm sure some have ambitions beyond the norm but they aren't exactly blessed with parents or a community that supports their aspirations. Most parents would be delighted to have a child that wants to stay in school and gain a few qualifications, that seems to be actively discouraged in some traveller families. The real shame is that the State just lets it happen.

I fully agree. I come from an area with a fairly large traveller population, some in houses and others in halting sites. I went to primary and secondary school with traveller children, their attendance was sporadic at best, conventional education was not valued by the parents. In my year, not one of my traveller classmates sat the Junior Cert. Now this may have changed somewhat but the problems still persist.

In my working life in this country, I've worked with countless nationalities and cultures but only two travellers, who were brothers. During the economic boom, when we couldn't fill vacancies for low skilled but quite well paid manual work, I asked one of these lads if he knew anyone that might be interested in a job. He said "Sure all I get is laughed at for working. I wouldn't know anyone that'd work here besides me and the brother." I didn't ask why others weren't willing to work when he was but he gave me the impression that his family were in some kind of an "outsider" situation with the rest of the travelling community.

The attitude to mainstream education within the traveller community seems to be the cause of a lot of their problems and causes the lower life expectancy, health issues and crime that they undoubtedly suffer.

However, the state can only offer opportunities, there needs to be cooperation from travellers themselves too in bettering themselves.

dd972

I'd say there's a fair bit of cash stashed away in most halting sites as they seem to operate in a cash economy.

F**ked if I'd try to go in and nick it though! :eek:

Pedro K

catallus wrote: »

Like the ones about how about 10% die before they're 2 years of age?

The endemic unemployment through discrimination?

The escalated suicide rate?

The abominable poverty rate?

The third-world life-expectancy?

Almost all of which are their own doing.

demanufactured

I don't even...
**** it just put him down....

To Elland Back

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness they can't help what they are born into. I'm sure some have ambitions beyond the norm but they aren't exactly blessed with parents or a community that supports their aspirations. Most parents would be delighted to have a child that wants to stay in school and gain a few qualifications, that seems to be actively discouraged in some traveller families. The real shame is that the State just lets it happen.

The State doesn't just let it happen, the powers that be are scared to tackle it and that will bite us in the ass in the next few years.

Greenmachine

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

Pedro K

Greenmachine wrote: »

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

Because the fact is the travelling community has a serious problem with crime. Sweeping it under the rug and dismissing it as just a small minority, like Pavee point does, does nobody any good.

eviltwin

Greenmachine wrote: »

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

This is part of the problem, there seems to be very little effort to connect the dots. Travellers have a very substandard of living compared to the settled community, that in turn just fuels the cycle that leads to people like the one in the OP. There is no point putting these guys in jail and hoping they reform, the work needs to be done when they are kids. Part of the problem is the lack of education, that is not running them down, its a genuine concern for them. Nothing will change for the next generation of Travellers if its not addressed.

nullzero

Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The solicitor defending scum like that should get the same sentence. Solicitors lie through their teeth in courts spinning stupid stories as excuses for their scum clients yet are never held to account and the okd line that they're acting on instructions from their client is horse****, they spin the stories all by themselves depending on how the case is going.

eviltwin

nullzero wrote: »

Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

Unfortunately you can't raise legitimate concerns about the community without being told you're a racist. Its nothing to do with racism, there is a real problem in the Traveller community and all this tip toeing around them and their "culture" just allows it to fester. I hate seeing kids who should have the same chances as any other child just allowed slip through the cracks because they are a Traveller child. We need someone in Government brave enough to start that conversation but no one seems to care.

Uriel.

nullzero wrote: »

Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

The laws already exist. There's just very little willingness to apply them, either by administrative bodies, public authorities, law enforcement or the judiciary. Others are afraid to call it out as the likes of pavee will scream discrimination at the drop of horse's hoof

Uriel.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The solicitor defending scum like that should get the same sentence. Solicitors lie through their teeth in courts spinning stupid stories as excuses for their scum clients yet are never held to account and the okd line that they're acting on instructions from their client is horse****, they spin the stories all by themselves depending on how the case is going.

To do so would prevent fair representation. In the main Solicitors/barristers don't lie, they present a specific version of the truth to provide their client the best possible defence.

nullzero

eviltwin wrote: »

Unfortunately you can't raise legitimate concerns about the community without being told you're a racist. Its nothing to do with racism, there is a real problem in the Traveller community and all this tip toeing around them and their "culture" just allows it to fester. I hate seeing kids who should have the same chances as any other child just allowed slip through the cracks because they are a Traveller child. We need someone in Government brave enough to start that conversation but no one seems to care.

You'll notice I avoided the term "racist" and opted for the term xenophobic instead. I have been on the receiving end of that drivel enough times to know exactly what you're talking about.

nullzero

Uriel. wrote: »

The laws already exist. There's just very little willingness to apply them, either by administrative bodies, public authorities, law enforcement or the judiciary. Others are afraid to call it out as the likes of pavee will scream discrimination at the drop of horse's hoof

Greater restrictions around the likes of scrap dealing/procuring of scrap etc... Would be incredibly beneficial. Anyone dealing in scrap would require a licence and training and no vehicle over five years old could be used by a scrap dealer, insurance for scrap dealers to be compulsory and fines in place for those who do not comply. That's just one area which would restrict a vast amount of criminality perpetrated by travelers.

punisher5112

Also would love to see those we buy car signs gone.

There are so many laws out there but it always seems to be targeted at the easy touch and fine the ones that work hard and that and tax us to the skies but sure poor dimmy has had a hard life and everybody is to blame but themselves.

Sad really and I hope noone ever has to rely on our legal system unless you are the defendent to a terrible crime.

VinLieger

catallus wrote: »

Like the ones about how about 10% die before they're 2 years of age?

The endemic unemployment through discrimination?

The escalated suicide rate?

The abominable poverty rate?

The third-world life-expectancy?

The only one of those that can attributed to outside forces in any way is employment and the majority of times it's far more to do with their lack of education and qualifications. But of course that would all just probably be considered part of their culture so it's probably racist to ask for a qualified employee these days as well

eamonnq

eviltwin wrote: »

Travellers have a very substandard of living compared to the settled community.

Have they yeah ?

All travelers ? I see plenty with a better standard of living than some of the 'settled community'.

BlaasForRafa

eviltwin wrote: »

This is part of the problem, there seems to be very little effort to connect the dots. Travellers have a very substandard of living compared to the settled community, that in turn just fuels the cycle that leads to people like the one in the OP. There is no point putting these guys in jail and hoping they reform, the work needs to be done when they are kids. Part of the problem is the lack of education, that is not running them down, its a genuine concern for them. Nothing will change for the next generation of Travellers if its not addressed.

It takes two to tango though, the traveller community will have to want to improve themselves or else it's just a waste of time and resources. They also need to stop blaming outsiders for their problems and take a deep hard honest look at themselves and their "culture". As well they need to drop the victim mentality, that's really doing themselves no favours, it alienates the settled community and it encourages themselves to not try and improve their ways.

Bipolar Joe

Greenmachine wrote: »

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

Why don't you start a thread documenting all of their humanitarian efforts and we can say nice things instead?

CharlieZeroOne

evident in this thread are two strains... those who hate travellers, and the more reasoned voices.

i can say ive been both. depending on where you live i think your life will be affected or not. Ive had a lot of run ins, bad run ins, with travellers over the years, enough to have a healthy fear of them.

but whatever. that was yesterday, today i live in the countyside away from people.

Yah this situation needs to be 'actioned' on, as manager type people say.

I can see parallels with other cycles of violence in the world today. The negativity and fear feeds itself and passes from gen to gen, in us and them.

The reply above by Nullzero, i think, is genius -


Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

Axel Lamp

I'm getting real sick of them and developing an intense hatred of them, all of em.

How many travellers are there in Ireland? I'm not sure of numbers, but looking at census results it appears to be somewhere around 30,000.

What percentage of crime is committed by them? I don't know that either, but I'd be fairly happy that a huge percentage of reported/solved crime is committed by them.
In fact, I'd go so far as to imagine between 50 & 60% is.
That's a huge amount of crime committed by a relatively small amount of people.

Now you can shout racism if you like but that's what I have learned from experience.
Sorry if it doesn't suit pavee point.

punisher5112

80% on dole also.