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Travellers jailed for attacking Gardai

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    #182
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    kstand wrote: »
    Are you for real? He has rattled off the top of his head quite a number of incidents that he has seen and in one case where he has been set upon and you come back with it is to do with him and his prejudices? He has just given a list of real life incidents - and you are coming back at him that it is because he is prejudiced?
    How can anyone hold any sort of a rational debate about anything when they come up against this sort of irrational train of thought bordering on total stupidity.
    This is nothing to do with prejudices - much as you would like it to fit your own agenda.
    People are entitled to think what they want based on experience.

    I don't really place much stock in the anecdotes recounted as Gospel on an anonymous internet message board.


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    #183
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭SteM


    Barely There wrote: »
    Probably says more about you and your prejudices tbh, seeing as your the common denominator in all your 'stories'.

    I think people's experiences and interactions colour their view. I grew up in Wicklow, moved to Dublin city centre and had zero view on the traveller population. Never had any interaction a traveller iirc.

    I moved to Tallaght 7 years ago. I live on a generally quiet cul-de-sac but maybe 5 or 6 times there have been really violent drink related fights at night and they have all involved fights between various 'settled' traveller families. Garda vans called, people hauled away with blood over them. The whole nine yards. These are people that come in, rent for a year or so and then move on. We had an incredible experience a year after we moved in with a settled traveller family 2 doors down that escalated from me asking their 10 year old to not pee in my front garden garden to my wife being threatened with a knife and them attempting to burn down our back garden shed the following night.

    I've witnessed fights and arguments up in The Square on a Sunday, so many that I just steer clear of the place that day.

    My (overly long) point is that if I had have grown up where I live now then my view of the traveller population would definitely be different to the non existent view I grew up with. I don't think that's predjuice, it's just a fact.


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    #184
    cadaliac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭cadaliac


    Barely There wrote: »
    Probably says more about you and your prejudices tbh, seeing as your the common denominator in all your 'stories'.

    I too, have had poor experiences with the traveler community unfortunately and i can relate to Pedro K's experiences as mine are quite similar (working in a bar, dealings in public and dealings at school etc) but I'm not going to state any of my feelings towards the community as I think this thread has enough of that.
    Also, I must admit, I do not interact with the Travelers and I have very few dealings with them now in my adult life.

    I do want to ask you, what you propose society does as a whole with the Traveling community?
    Its all very well calling people out saying that they are anti travelers or are biased in a negative way - but supposing you manage to change someone to have a positive view about the travelers, what then?
    How do you tackle the unemployment issue and crime statistics that engulf this community ? How would you do things differently? You know, to change peoples prejudices?


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    #185
    kstand
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kstand


    Barely There wrote: »
    I don't really place much stock in the anecdotes recounted as Gospel on an anonymous internet message board.

    You don't have to.
    But there is plenty in the papers and in the media from court cases and all in the very recent past. Do a google search for "Ennis traveller feud".


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    #186
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    SteM wrote: »
    I don't think that's predjuice, it's just a fact.

    Prejudice is an unjustified or incorrect attitude (usually negative) towards an individual based solely on the individual's membership of a social group.


    Prejudice is rife on this thread. If a black kid came into my school and damaged some final year projects 15 years ago am I justified in making sweeping statements about black people based on this incident?


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    #187
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    This justification is comical :pac:


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    #188
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Cartoon_Head wrote: »
    the small minority of bad apples

    Ah, I needed a Friday evening laugh.


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    #189
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Should start with ten strikes rule. Ten convictions and your in for ten years with the eleventh.


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    #190
    CathalDublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭CathalDublin


    Leave it out, salt of he earth that bloke!


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    #191
    Frigga_92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Frigga_92


    Barely There wrote: »
    I don't really place much stock in the anecdotes recounted as Gospel on an anonymous internet message board.

    Well then why are you bothering with this thread? Or boards for that matter? :confused:


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    #192
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Cormac... wrote: »
    This justification is comical :pac:


    Are you a racist though?


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    #193
    kstand
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kstand


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Should start with ten strikes rule. Ten convictions and your in for ten years with the eleventh.

    Agree - everyone can make a mistake or two.
    But the sentence to my mind shouldn't be B&B in a cushy cell. 5 years hard labour might help them reflect on what they have amassed. 10 hours hard physical work a day, 6 days a week and no frills in the cell. Until something as drastic as this happens, then the problem in Ireland is going to get a whole lot worse. And the biggest threat to change in terms of cleaning this up is not from the perpetrators themselves - its from human rights groups.
    Shouldn't matter who you are - you get 10 convictions and you're 5 years hard labour.


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    #194
    kstand
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kstand


    Barely There wrote: »
    Are you a racist though?

    I thought you were for real - total troll.


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    #195
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    kstand wrote: »
    5 years hard labour might help them reflect on what they have amassed.

    They should make them do driveways!


    Oh wait...


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    #196
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Barely There wrote: »
    Are you a racist though?

    To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true: Aristotle


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    #197
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Prejudice : who decides if the opinion is incorrect or unjustified ? In the absence of objective statistical evidence, your BT perception is as valid or invalid as others.
    Anecdotal experience is very poor, if that can be utterly rubbished by statistics, then advocates for the travelling community should be asking for them too. Yet there seems to be some reluctance ("to what end ?")


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    #198
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Cormac... wrote: »
    Would love to get your take on it if a family of them moved in next door to you in 12 months
    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    tastyt wrote: »
    Jesus Christ can you not say anything about travellers without having the discrimination bull**** thrown at you. It's plain as day and there for all to see, in every town up and down the country they cause trouble .


    Wonder how quick the Mods would be swinging the Ban Hammer if the word 'Traveller' was replaced with 'Asians', 'Jews' or 'Blacks' in any of the small selection of posts above.

    Seems we're all comfortable being prejudiced against Travellers though.


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    #199
    tastyt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭tastyt


    Barely There wrote: »
    Wonder how quick the Mods would be swinging the Ban Hammer if the word 'Traveller' was replaced with 'Asians', 'Jews' or 'Blacks' in any of the small selection of posts above.

    Seems we're all comfortable being prejudiced against Travellers though.


    Wer actually the most tolerant country in the world, that's the problem


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    #200
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Cormac... wrote: »
    To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true: Aristotle

    I can see you're uncomfortable confronting your own prejudices. that's OK, that's quite normal.

    Let's try again, shall we?

    Is this a racist statement.
    Cormac... wrote: »
    .
    Would love to get your take on it if a family of them moved in next door to you in 12 months


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    #201
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Barely There wrote: »
    Wonder how quick the Mods would be swinging the Ban Hammer if the word 'Traveller' was replaced with 'Asians', 'Jews' or 'Blacks' in any of the small selection of posts above.

    It's more likely to be replaced with knack**, Pik** or Tink**. But sure there'd be murder then! :pac:


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    #202
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Barely There wrote: »
    Wonder how quick the Mods would be swinging the Ban Hammer if the word 'Traveller' was replaced with 'Asians', 'Jews' or 'Blacks' in any of the small selection of posts above.

    Seems we're all comfortable being prejudiced against Travellers though.

    Perhaps you should look on the fact that the bans aren't flowing as an indication there may be some measure of truth in those statements?


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    #203
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Barely There wrote: »
    I can see you're uncomfortable confronting your own prejudices. that's OK, that's quite normal.

    Let's try again, shall we?

    Is this a racist statement.

    Do you believe in God?


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    #204
    Frigga_92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Frigga_92


    Barely There wrote: »
    Wonder how quick the Mods would be swinging the Ban Hammer if the word 'Traveller' was replaced with 'Asians', 'Jews' or 'Blacks' in any of the small selection of posts above.

    Seems we're all comfortable being prejudiced against Travellers though.

    If you have an issue with posts use the report post function, that's what it's there for.


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    #205
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Barely There wrote: »
    I don't really place much stock in the anecdotes recounted as Gospel on an anonymous internet message board.

    Heres some statistics then. 80% are unemployed, 21.8% have completed lower secondary level, 0.1% of the population make up 5% of the prison population, 37% of women seeking refuge from domestic violence were travellers. Cant find an exact number but they also have a high rate of disability.

    Im sure you'll find anyone else to blame for it though.


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    #206
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    wexie wrote: »
    Perhaps you should look on the fact that the bans aren't flowing as an indication there may be some measure of truth in those statements?

    How would a Mod know?

    The more logical way to look at it is that there's a widespread societal acceptance of prejudice and casual racism against members of the Travelling community.


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    #207
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Barely There wrote: »
    The more logical way to look at it is that there's a widespread societal acceptance of prejudice and casual racism against members of the Travelling community.
    The thing is that if Travellers want to be treated the same as everyone else then they have to start acting the same as everyone else. They're a law onto themselves! They take land, they don't pay taxes, they actively exclude themselves from societal integration. I was once told by a policeman "They're impossible to keep track of. Sure a high percentage of them have multiple pps numbers and they claim multiple benefits."


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    #208
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    smash wrote: »
    The thing is that if Travellers want to be treated the same as everyone else then they have to start acting the same as everyone else. They're a law onto themselves! They take land, they don't pay taxes, they actively exclude themselves from societal integration. I was once told by a policeman "They're impossible to keep track of. Sure a high percentage of them have multiple pps numbers and they claim multiple benefits."

    Pretty much all of that sentence was prejudicial against Travellers.

    How would you like to be judged as an Irish person based on the behaviour of that group of J1 students who wreaked the house in America earlier this year?


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    #209
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Barely There wrote: »
    How would a Mod know?

    The more logical way to look at it is that there's a widespread societal acceptance of prejudice and casual racism against members of the Travelling community.

    Yes there is but posters who talk about there own experiences are allowed do that. It's not racist.


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    #210
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Barely There wrote: »
    How would a Mod know?

    The more logical way to look at it is that there's a widespread societal acceptance of prejudice and casual racism against members of the Travelling community.

    So what you're saying then is that the mods are all racist too?

    It's all of us right? We're all prejudiced racists and only you can see the truth....

    :rolleyes:


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    #211
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Cormac... wrote: »
    Do you believe in God?
    Barely There wrote: »
    Pretty much all of that sentence was prejudicial against Travellers.

    How would you like to be judged as an Irish person based on the behaviour of that group of J1 students who wreaked the house in America earlier this year?

    You haven't answered my question!


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