Travellers jailed for attacking Gardai

To Elland Back

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness they can't help what they are born into. I'm sure some have ambitions beyond the norm but they aren't exactly blessed with parents or a community that supports their aspirations. Most parents would be delighted to have a child that wants to stay in school and gain a few qualifications, that seems to be actively discouraged in some traveller families. The real shame is that the State just lets it happen.

The State doesn't just let it happen, the powers that be are scared to tackle it and that will bite us in the ass in the next few years.

Greenmachine

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

Pedro K

Greenmachine wrote: »

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

Because the fact is the travelling community has a serious problem with crime. Sweeping it under the rug and dismissing it as just a small minority, like Pavee point does, does nobody any good.

eviltwin

Greenmachine wrote: »

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

This is part of the problem, there seems to be very little effort to connect the dots. Travellers have a very substandard of living compared to the settled community, that in turn just fuels the cycle that leads to people like the one in the OP. There is no point putting these guys in jail and hoping they reform, the work needs to be done when they are kids. Part of the problem is the lack of education, that is not running them down, its a genuine concern for them. Nothing will change for the next generation of Travellers if its not addressed.

nullzero

Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The solicitor defending scum like that should get the same sentence. Solicitors lie through their teeth in courts spinning stupid stories as excuses for their scum clients yet are never held to account and the okd line that they're acting on instructions from their client is horse****, they spin the stories all by themselves depending on how the case is going.

eviltwin

nullzero wrote: »

Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

Unfortunately you can't raise legitimate concerns about the community without being told you're a racist. Its nothing to do with racism, there is a real problem in the Traveller community and all this tip toeing around them and their "culture" just allows it to fester. I hate seeing kids who should have the same chances as any other child just allowed slip through the cracks because they are a Traveller child. We need someone in Government brave enough to start that conversation but no one seems to care.

Uriel.

nullzero wrote: »

Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

The laws already exist. There's just very little willingness to apply them, either by administrative bodies, public authorities, law enforcement or the judiciary. Others are afraid to call it out as the likes of pavee will scream discrimination at the drop of horse's hoof

Uriel.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The solicitor defending scum like that should get the same sentence. Solicitors lie through their teeth in courts spinning stupid stories as excuses for their scum clients yet are never held to account and the okd line that they're acting on instructions from their client is horse****, they spin the stories all by themselves depending on how the case is going.

To do so would prevent fair representation. In the main Solicitors/barristers don't lie, they present a specific version of the truth to provide their client the best possible defence.

nullzero

eviltwin wrote: »

Unfortunately you can't raise legitimate concerns about the community without being told you're a racist. Its nothing to do with racism, there is a real problem in the Traveller community and all this tip toeing around them and their "culture" just allows it to fester. I hate seeing kids who should have the same chances as any other child just allowed slip through the cracks because they are a Traveller child. We need someone in Government brave enough to start that conversation but no one seems to care.

You'll notice I avoided the term "racist" and opted for the term xenophobic instead. I have been on the receiving end of that drivel enough times to know exactly what you're talking about.

nullzero

Uriel. wrote: »

The laws already exist. There's just very little willingness to apply them, either by administrative bodies, public authorities, law enforcement or the judiciary. Others are afraid to call it out as the likes of pavee will scream discrimination at the drop of horse's hoof

Greater restrictions around the likes of scrap dealing/procuring of scrap etc... Would be incredibly beneficial. Anyone dealing in scrap would require a licence and training and no vehicle over five years old could be used by a scrap dealer, insurance for scrap dealers to be compulsory and fines in place for those who do not comply. That's just one area which would restrict a vast amount of criminality perpetrated by travelers.

punisher5112

Also would love to see those we buy car signs gone.

There are so many laws out there but it always seems to be targeted at the easy touch and fine the ones that work hard and that and tax us to the skies but sure poor dimmy has had a hard life and everybody is to blame but themselves.

Sad really and I hope noone ever has to rely on our legal system unless you are the defendent to a terrible crime.

VinLieger

catallus wrote: »

Like the ones about how about 10% die before they're 2 years of age?

The endemic unemployment through discrimination?

The escalated suicide rate?

The abominable poverty rate?

The third-world life-expectancy?

The only one of those that can attributed to outside forces in any way is employment and the majority of times it's far more to do with their lack of education and qualifications. But of course that would all just probably be considered part of their culture so it's probably racist to ask for a qualified employee these days as well

eamonnq

eviltwin wrote: »

Travellers have a very substandard of living compared to the settled community.

Have they yeah ?

All travelers ? I see plenty with a better standard of living than some of the 'settled community'.

BlaasForRafa

eviltwin wrote: »

This is part of the problem, there seems to be very little effort to connect the dots. Travellers have a very substandard of living compared to the settled community, that in turn just fuels the cycle that leads to people like the one in the OP. There is no point putting these guys in jail and hoping they reform, the work needs to be done when they are kids. Part of the problem is the lack of education, that is not running them down, its a genuine concern for them. Nothing will change for the next generation of Travellers if its not addressed.

It takes two to tango though, the traveller community will have to want to improve themselves or else it's just a waste of time and resources. They also need to stop blaming outsiders for their problems and take a deep hard honest look at themselves and their "culture". As well they need to drop the victim mentality, that's really doing themselves no favours, it alienates the settled community and it encourages themselves to not try and improve their ways.

Bipolar Joe

Greenmachine wrote: »

We have gone from talking about one individual scrote who happens to be a traveller to just slating their whole community. Didn't take long at all.

Why don't you start a thread documenting all of their humanitarian efforts and we can say nice things instead?

CharlieZeroOne

evident in this thread are two strains... those who hate travellers, and the more reasoned voices.

i can say ive been both. depending on where you live i think your life will be affected or not. Ive had a lot of run ins, bad run ins, with travellers over the years, enough to have a healthy fear of them.

but whatever. that was yesterday, today i live in the countyside away from people.

Yah this situation needs to be 'actioned' on, as manager type people say.

I can see parallels with other cycles of violence in the world today. The negativity and fear feeds itself and passes from gen to gen, in us and them.

The reply above by Nullzero, i think, is genius -


Eventually this thistle will have to be grasped. Travelers live outside the law because it is expedient for them to do so. Legislation has to be introduced to gradually clamp down on the unlawful behaviour of the malignant section of the traveling community. There is no silver bullet to eradicate this problem as it is endemic in the traveler culture only gradual changes made over time can make meaningful changes to the dynamic between travelers and the Irish people at large. People mindlessly attacking or defending travelers need to approach the issue from a more pragmatic point of view and we need to move away from the unwillingness to tackle the issues surrounding travelers because of fear of being labeled xenophobic or fear of retribution from travelers themselves.

Axel Lamp

I'm getting real sick of them and developing an intense hatred of them, all of em.

How many travellers are there in Ireland? I'm not sure of numbers, but looking at census results it appears to be somewhere around 30,000.

What percentage of crime is committed by them? I don't know that either, but I'd be fairly happy that a huge percentage of reported/solved crime is committed by them.
In fact, I'd go so far as to imagine between 50 & 60% is.
That's a huge amount of crime committed by a relatively small amount of people.

Now you can shout racism if you like but that's what I have learned from experience.
Sorry if it doesn't suit pavee point.

punisher5112

80% on dole also.

Annasopra

A lot of this really is a vicious circle caused by and resulting in discrimination. A lot of unemployment is high because the settled community wont employ them. Some crime results because there is so much unemployment. Therefore because there is more crime this causes more discrimination.

BlaasForRafa

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A lot of this really is a vicious circle caused by and resulting in discrimination. A lot of unemployment is high because the settled community wont employ them. Some crime results because there is so much unemployment. Therefore because there is more crime this causes more discrimination.

Many travellers aren't looking for employment, many seem happy enough to exist in the "black economy". Stop trying to put all the blame on "discrimination", travellers have to take a huge slice of the blame for their own situation.

punisher5112

selling tem gates cheap bosss also I see ya have a few slates up there missing. and so on.

Explain jhow so many have expensive cars and vans but yet don't work?

El Guapo!

Mod: Ok folks, this thread is headed in the same direction as every other traveller related thread.
Nobody is stopping you discussing the subject but when it goes down the usual route, the thread will be closed. Either engage in a grown up, civilised discussion or don't bother at all.
This is the final warning. Bans will be issued from here on.

Annasopra

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Many travellers aren't looking for employment,

Because they know that many settled people will discriminate and not employ them.

punisher5112

Why are so many been let away with crimes and what really is the point in our Gardai catching them if they only get another suspended sentence.

This is a huge drain on our countries finances and also Garda time and resources also.

I always wanted to be a Gaurd but it is not a very appealing job anymore when we have corruption and a farce of a legal system they really all should be ashamed and judges should have to meet a standard and Gardai given more powers, better tools/equipment and also at least a tazer for protection.

eviltwin

eamonnq wrote: »

Have they yeah ?

All travelers ? I see plenty with a better standard of living than some of the 'settled community'.

And I can show you halting sites that are little more than dumps. How many still live in caravans?

BlaasForRafa

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Because they know that many settled people will discriminate and not employ them.

Some probably do have that fear and there's something to it but for many they see that they can "earn" more by being in the black economy and not pay tax, USC, VAT or any of those other annoying taxes and charges like normal law-abiding citizens do.

As I said before, it takes two to tango, the travellers have to want to change and the settled community have to want to facilitate that. If travellers stick with the victim routine though, they'll stay in the situation they are currently in.

Bipolar Joe

eviltwin wrote: »

And I can show you halting sites that are little more than dumps. How many still live in caravans?

Did they move into a dump, or create it?

tom_k

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Because they know that many settled people will discriminate and not employ them.

But many companies would employ them if only they'd apply for positions. As I stated in an earlier post, I have worked with travellers in the past who got their jobs because they were willing to apply, sit a basic interview, show up every morning and do what the job required.

A huge amount of their community lack qualifications and marketable skills but the solution to this is engagement with education and training programmes. I'm not aware of any serious employer who'd bin a genuine application just because it's from a traveller. I know I wouldn't.