Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

smurgen · 25-10-2014 4:30pm

wexie wrote: »

Can someone confirm if that's true? That'd be insane :eek:
Surely they'd have upgraded brakes, heavy duty bumpers, suspension and all that stuff?

That's pretty much what I was told

AlekSmart · 25-10-2014 4:57pm

tayto lover wrote: »

True and it doesn't matter that they were Travelers either.
What matters is that they were out on bail to continue a rampage around the country.

The nub of the matter!

However,Judges,when considering their sentencing are obliged to be mindful of many different elements,such as Supreme Court decisions,precedents and pleas for mitigation.

It has been pointed out before that our Prison population has a disproportionate amount of certain social groupings,with a hint that sentencing any more would be against Social Policy.

Right now,it is salutory to bear in mind that Diana Harton's death has effectively ended this State's responsibilities towards her.

From here on in,the Irish State will seek to Fully Protect and encourage those who were responsible for her death.

The 23 year old Driver,already possessing a good solid CRIMINAL record of 20+ CONVICTIONS,along with the fact that 3 out of the cars 5 occupants are already On BAIL.

One can safely assume therefore,that the Irish State already has a very full account in relation to Legal expenses for this group,with every expectation now that even more law abiding citizens contributions will now be required to mount a defence for these people.

At the end of the day,that shame is on us,the voters and other responsible,solid minded Citizens who have blind-eyed what has been going on all around us for years.

Sadly,a rarefied Supreme Court has ring-fenced the entire area of entitlement to Bail,something which has already cost innocent lives.

Another referendum on the issue of Bail for repeat offenders is urgently required.

Remember,The Gardai are constantly thwarting and arresting these people,but to little avail,as another branch of the same State rushes to thwart and frustrate the Gardai in their efforts.

You could'nt make this stuff up !! :mad:

Sofiztikated · 25-10-2014 5:05pm

wexie wrote: »

Can someone confirm if that's true? That'd be insane :eek:
Surely they'd have upgraded brakes, heavy duty bumpers, suspension and all that stuff?

Yup, general patrol are boggo standard.

Don't get me wrong, Yaris', Fiestas and such are good for what they are designed for, little nippy city cars, but we don't particularly have much of a city that they are required for. And the Mondeos, Avensis' and such are basic, bottom of the line petrol or diesel versions.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The nub of the matter!

However,Judges,when considering their sentencing are obliged to be mindful of many different elements,such as Supreme Court decisions,precedents and pleas for mitigation.

It has been pointed out before that our Prison population has a disproportionate amount of certain social groupings,with a hint that sentencing any more would be against Social Policy.

Right now,it is salutory to bear in mind that Diana Harton's death has effectively ended this State's responsibilities towards her.

From here on in,the Irish State will seek to Fully Protect and encourage those who were responsible for her death.

The 23 year old Driver,already possessing a good solid CRIMINAL record of 20+ CONVICTIONS,along with the fact that 3 out of the cars 5 occupants are already On BAIL.

One can safely assume therefore,that the Irish State already has a very full account in relation to Legal expenses for this group,with every expectation now that even more law abiding citizens contributions will now be required to mount a defence for these people.

At the end of the day,that shame is on us,the voters and other responsible,solid minded Citizens who have blind-eyed what has been going on all around us for years.

Sadly,a rarefied Supreme Court has ring-fenced the entire area of entitlement to Bail,something which has already cost innocent lives.

Another referendum on the issue of Bail for repeat offenders is urgently required.

Remember,The Gardai are constantly thwarting and arresting these people,but to little avail,as another branch of the same State rushes to thwart and frustrate the Gardai in their efforts.

You could'nt make this stuff up !! :mad:

TL;DR

We pay to catch them, we pay to keep them out, we pay to catch them again.

Tail Docker · 25-10-2014 5:07pm

I was told they were released without charge today...as you do..

Rubberchikken · 25-10-2014 5:13pm

why do the gardai insist on racing after these types of people and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

Potential-Monke · 25-10-2014 5:13pm

wexie wrote: »

Can someone confirm if that's true? That'd be insane :eek:
Surely they'd have upgraded brakes, heavy duty bumpers, suspension and all that stuff?

Standard, lowest spec cars, radio removed, tetra put in, livery put on, lights put on. There's your Garda fleet. Oh, and 1.6 diesel i30's. At least the Avensis were 2.0L Diesel.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

The ERU of the Gardaí would have modified Volvos alright and I'd imagine the SDU and similar units have access to high powered vehicles. I don't see why local Gardaí should need anything more special than i30s but the Transit connects are not fit for purpose.

Because local Gardaí do most of the work. RSU/ERU are very limited resources. And the thing with the Transit Connets, they're grand for public order, easier to maneuver than the big Fiats, but after that they're crap, and extremely loud inside.

KERSPLAT! · 25-10-2014 5:15pm

Tail Docker wrote: »

I was told they were released without charge today...as you do..

Any links?

freshpopcorn · 25-10-2014 5:16pm

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why do the gardai insist on racing after these types of people and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

If they didn't chase them, people would be posting that the Gardai don't care\do nothing and that's why something happened!

Hitchens · 25-10-2014 5:33pm

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why do the gardai insist on racing after these types of people and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

there have been incidences of thugs in cars who weren't being chased, crashing into and killing innocent victims, as well

Sofiztikated · 25-10-2014 5:40pm

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why do the gardai insist on racing after these types of people and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

And how do you guarantee that that route is the one they'll take? You can turn off every road in the country easily. A pursuit car can force them to go the route they are supposed to go.

Yes, you can hide a car in Ireland. Very easily. Into an estate, left, right, left, left, park, and run. Or into a car park, or underground car park, or multi story, or out into the country in dark lanes, or bomb up the motor way and into a different country, or hell, pull into someones garage beside their lawn mover.

Again, you are blaming the wrong people. The dick heads driving the Polo, that had burgled and terrorised people already, and were driving dangerously BEFORE the Gardai got involved are solely to blame. They forced the situation. The Gardai responding to the situation, trying to stop these little ****s, to try and return the **** they had stolen to it's rightful owners, to fucking stop them from inflicting pain and misery and suffering on others are not to blame here.

Is it upsetting that Ms Harton got involved? Absolutely. Is it terrible that her involvement ended in her death? Fucking sure it is. Did the Gardai set out to hurt someone that day? Unlikely. Did these arseholes set out to do harm? Yes. In some way or another, yes they fucking did. Whether it was harm by killing someone, injuring someone, or by invading their property, and stealing their possessions, they did not end up in that position by accident.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 25-10-2014 6:45pm

beer_diva wrote: »

true but in the case of the media , when a funeral parlour owner denied service to a deceased young mans family , backrounds are highlighted

in this case of criminality where a young woman lost her life , no mention is made of the culprits backround

There is an issue in there, not necessarily the main issue at stake here which is whether the Garda chase was conducted professionally, regardless of who the culprits were.

But, yes, there is a high degree of partiality in what facts the media think they can let us know. It's pointless, as the country is small enough for us all to find out quite quickly that the culprits were Travellers. There's a peculiar editorial line that allows this kind of coverage

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-tough-action-needed-on-marauding-gangs-30691798.html

It appears that those involved were members of a gang who live in the Dublin area, but target vulnerable communities in rural Ireland.

So its sort of OK to vaguely hint that the culprits are from Dublin, travelling out of the city to pillage decent rural folk. But we can't, apparently, come out straight and say they are Travellers. We have to vaguely hind that these are folk from (say) a local authority housing estate, who you'd find on Hill 16 of a Sunday.

OK for the media to vent stereotypes about Clondalkin. Not OK to state actual facts about the people involved. Can't figure it out, Ted.

wicklowstevo · 25-10-2014 6:47pm

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why do the gardai(Police) insist on racing after these types of people(criminals) and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

im struck by the ill informed nature of that comment ? have you been in many car chases your self there ? how to you keep track of a car on the motorway system with out keeping eyes on it? in the north they have a effective camara system . in the south we dont . remmber very little air support , even if there was what do you do when they get back to where ever they are going and vanish like rats in a hole .

wexie · 25-10-2014 7:03pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Yup, general patrol are boggo standard.

Don't get me wrong, Yaris', Fiestas and such are good for what they are designed for, little nippy city cars, but we don't particularly have much of a city that they are required for. And the Mondeos, Avensis' and such are basic, bottom of the line petrol or diesel versions.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Standard, lowest spec cars, radio removed, tetra put in, livery put on, lights put on. There's your Garda fleet. Oh, and 1.6 diesel i30's. At least the Avensis were 2.0L Diesel.

Considering most of our country isn't city or motorway that's really not much good. Certainly wouldn't fancy chasing a bunch of thugs/burglars/joyriders/whatever in an Impreza down a dark country road in a Yaris.

Surely they could get some Mondeo ST. Focus ST's or something along those lines? Doesn't have to be super cars, just something a little bit more beefy?

end of the road · 25-10-2014 10:04pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

There is an issue in there, not necessarily the main issue at stake here which is whether the Garda chase was conducted professionally, regardless of who the culprits were.

But, yes, there is a high degree of partiality in what facts the media think they can let us know. It's pointless, as the country is small enough for us all to find out quite quickly that the culprits were Travellers. There's a peculiar editorial line that allows this kind of coverageSo its sort of OK to vaguely hint that the culprits are from Dublin, travelling out of the city to pillage decent rural folk. But we can't, apparently, come out straight and say they are Travellers. We have to vaguely hind that these are folk from (say) a local authority housing estate, who you'd find on Hill 16 of a Sunday.

OK for the media to vent stereotypes about Clondalkin. Not OK to state actual facts about the people involved. Can't figure it out, Ted.

but how is it relevant. whats mentioning the fact they are travelers going to do.

Cienciano · 25-10-2014 10:14pm

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why do the gardai insist on racing after these types of people and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

So if a car drives fast away from a crime, the gardai just let them go. Brilliant.
Also, on spike strips, you should tell your local garda station about them, they probably just dont know about them.
I suppose when there's a shoot out between gardai and criminals, the gardai should shoot the guns out of their hands?

JillyQ · 26-10-2014 2:07am

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burglary-gang-in-fatal-m7-pileup-bought-car-for-100-30692851.html

The the article just about sums up the scumbag we are dealing with in this case.

old_aussie · 26-10-2014 3:02am

Sofiztikated wrote: »

TL;DR

We pay to catch them, we pay to keep them out, we pay to catch them again.

Then why quote something you didn't read?

king of the sheeple · 26-10-2014 3:17am

Ihateblackties wrote: »

Typical to see tinkers involved in this woman's death.

Do those complete scum contribute anything to society? Filthy pikeys all have multiple medical cards each, claim every welfare going, free housing, every allowance going.

And they pay no tax, no car insurance and break every law going. That's before you get to them terrorising people. Padraig Nally should have been given a medal of commendation from the President for his work in eradicating one of those filthy vermin who was robbing him blind.

Compulsory sterilisation is the only way to control their numbers. If they want welfare they can suffer it.

Banned

TheNog · 26-10-2014 9:36am

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why do the gardai insist on racing after these types of people and effectively putting innocent peoples lives at risk|?
this is ireland, not the middle of america where there's a chance of a car being able to hide.

As I said before pursuits happen almost daily throughout the country that are not reported in the media so you do not hear about them. Yes pursuits are dangerous but are very necessary as part of policing. They can be managed to a certain degree but are in essence unpredictable. Many pursuits are cancelled due to dangerous driving which put innocent people at risk. The ongoing investigation by the Gardaí and GSOC (separate investigations by the way) will be able to tell us if the pursuit should/could have been called off before the fatal collision.

chances are gardai know these people anyway.
why not radio ahead and have garda cars somewhere along the route putting out the thing that punctures tyres (sorry don't know actual name)?

I think you underestimate the amount of criminals in the country. Gardaí in Laois/Offaly division will not know first hand who criminals from Blanchardstown actually are.

As for using the Stinger device (puncture tyres) the car needing to be stopped has to be followed to see where it is going. Looking at a map of the M7 and presuming the VW Polo was first seen around Junction 18 and pursued to Junction 13 (Kildare). There is one off ramp and one on ramp at every junction so that's 12 ramps they can use. These fellas would use any ramp available to them whether they be on/off ramps, they really don't care. They could turn around and go against the flow of traffic on the motorway which has happened in the past.

Another thing that comes into play is resources. How many Gardaí would be working in the Kildare Division at that particular time and there locations within the Division at the time the radio message came through. Have a look at this link here. It gives you an idea how stretched the Kildare Division really is

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/counties-ireland-just-half-number-2964853

Take into consideration the pursuit probably lasted about 25km which can be done in minutes at speed.

it just all seems so pointless and in the end someone who was minding their own business gets killed and those that insist on breaking the law/upholding the law get their jollies and then walk away.

It is not pointless, it is very, very unfortunate. No comfort to the deceased family

Gosub · 26-10-2014 10:22am

The government spend loads of our euros on high powered cars. Not for the Garda fleet, of course. Look at some of the fleet our masters are driven around in. Surely they could be driven around in a 1.6 diesel Focus, without radio or aircon.

26-10-2014 10:33am

Ihateblackties wrote: »

Typical to see tinkers involved in this woman's death.

Do those complete scum contribute anything to society? Filthy pikeys all have multiple medical cards each, claim every welfare going, free housing, every allowance going.

And they pay no tax, no car insurance and break every law going. That's before you get to them terrorising people. Padraig Nally should have been given a medal of commendation from the President for his work in eradicating one of those filthy vermin who was robbing him blind.

king of the sheeple wrote: »

Compulsory sterilisation is the only way to control their numbers. If they want welfare they can suffer it.

Mod

Good morning, welcome to After Hours.

After your bans are up, I suggest you read the charter and familiarise yourself with what is allowed in this forum. These posts, for example, are not.

Hitchens · 26-10-2014 10:57am

Some posters on this thread seem to believe that the Gardai should never pursue thugs who are causing mayhem once the said thugs are escaping in a car.

Can they point to any country in the developed world where this is even a policy..........let alone a successful policy?

Cienciano · 26-10-2014 12:02pm

Hitchens wrote: »

Some posters on this thread seem to believe that the Gardai should never pursue thugs who are causing mayhem once the said thugs are escaping in a car.

Can they point to any country in the developed world where this is even a policy..........let alone a successful policy?

Tbh, I don't think they believe it. But they'll say black is white to get an argument going. Quick look at their posting history will confirm

kupus · 26-10-2014 12:17pm

Hitchens wrote: »

Some posters on this thread seem to believe that the Gardai should never pursue thugs who are causing mayhem once the said thugs are escaping in a car.

Can they point to any country in the developed world where this is even a policy..........let alone a successful policy?

To be honest, I think these type of people would blame a girl for getting raped because she was wearing a short skirt.

Gustav_Holst · 26-10-2014 12:26pm

Why are Travellers so deeply involved in crime in Ireland?

mrsbyrne · 26-10-2014 1:25pm

Gustav_Holst wrote: »

Why are Travellers so deeply involved in crime in Ireland?

the vast majority of Travelers are not involved in any kind of crime at all. Just like the vast amount of settled folk. There are some encampments of Travelers who have so removed themselves from the rest of society that they only recognize their own rules and laws. Their lives are based loosely in violence. Every minor disagreement is solved with violence. Entertainment is violence. Dog fighting. Bare knuckle fights. An atmosphere of lawlessness and recklessness dominates their lives. Getting caught by the Garda is an occupational hazard. Doing time is no bother. More violence in there. These kids thoroughly enjoyed driving recklessly in the uninsured car, robbing the premises down the country, crashing through the toll, the Garda chase and even the fatal crash. They don't give a flying **** about the dead woman or her family. But then neither would a bunch of scrotes from the settled community either.

Galwayguy35 · 26-10-2014 1:33pm

Gustav_Holst wrote: »

Why are Travellers so deeply involved in crime in Ireland?

Lots of money in crime and it's tax free, although I have very little time for Travellers TBH not all of them are involved in crime but when you consider that there are only about 50,000 of them in the Country the percentage is very high.

anncoates · 26-10-2014 1:36pm

Lapin wrote: »

What kind of cretinous arseholes bring a child on a burglary spree?

Cretinous arseholes, generally

DildoFaggins · 26-10-2014 1:38pm

No I don't think there is a country out there which doesn't have a policy of not chasing thugs it's pretty comical to suggest you should let them go and rampage on the motorway driving recklessly putting lives at risk, the blame is not with gardai but with the joke of a ponzhi scheme government in this country.
We see time after time Scumbags etc get away with it in court because it is beneficial for the governemnt and courts to let these "scum" loose in society.
I really sympathise with the Gardai they are made out to be nothing but a joke because of the lack of resources they get and lack of respect they get from every community.Our police force is looked down upon as a bloody joke and I'm getting sick of it.

At the end of the day someone died for no reason whatsoever because a group of delinquent morons yes not a "gang" who thought they were "mad" for robbing a few shops out for 40euro and a few socks.
It is not the fault of the Gardai whatsoever anyone who thinks otherwise should get their head examined the blame is on the government letting scumbags run loose on this country time after time. Do you not know the police force is ridiculously underfunded compared to places like the UK? If your going to blame the Gardai present good facts instead of talking out your ass please, sure if a single Gardai was in a shoot out with 10 crimals you'd probably call him a joke if backed down to cover right? He should be well enough trained to shoot the gun out of every criminal's hand and arrested them single-handedly while no civilian got hurt right?
We might aswell be living in Nazi Germany the way Ordinary folk are treated by the government.

Car accidents happen all the time a lot of the time it's just an accident but this is just not acceptable they could have killed anyone someone reading this
could have their friend/brother/school mate/wife etc killed right now if the circumstances were different, if they took another route.

I am sure normal travellers are sick of scumbag travellers to since it just leads to more generalisation and abuse towards them.

Sorry I just can't contain my rage when I see ordinary people suffering from illness/disability/debts and these arseholes getting away with everything because of the government things need to change quickly.

anncoates · 26-10-2014 1:38pm

Gustav_Holst wrote: »

Why are Travellers so deeply involved in crime in Ireland?

Because racism.

Lol.

Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

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