Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 26-10-2014 1:38pm

end of the road wrote: »

but how is it relevant. whats mentioning the fact they are travelers going to do.

Oh, I do agree. The main story here is simply that a woman was killed by criminals trying to avoid capture. The criminals could all be graduates of Trinity College. It really doesn't matter.

But, building on what you've said, my point is why is it relevant to say

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-tough-action-needed-on-marauding-gangs-30691798.html

It appears that those involved were members of a gang who live in the Dublin area, but target vulnerable communities in rural Ireland.

when that presents such a partial and, tbh, inaccurate picture.

In other words, if the background of the gang is irrelevant, why talk about it in an evasive and misleading fashion, such as in that Indo editorial?

I think it was the Daily Star who actually came outs straight and said the criminals involved were Travellers. We might think that fact is relevant, or irrelevant, but at least it's stating a plain fact.

Gustav_Holst · 26-10-2014 1:55pm

mrsbyrne wrote: »

the vast majority of Travelers are not involved in any kind of crime at all. Just like the vast amount of settled folk. There are some encampments of Travelers who have so removed themselves from the rest of society that they only recognize their own rules and laws. Their lives are based loosely in violence. Every minor disagreement is solved with violence. Entertainment is violence. Dog fighting. Bare knuckle fights. An atmosphere of lawlessness and recklessness dominates their lives. Getting caught by the Garda is an occupational hazard. Doing time is no bother. More violence in there. These kids thoroughly enjoyed driving recklessly in the uninsured car, robbing the premises down the country, crashing through the toll, the Garda chase and even the fatal crash. They don't give a flying **** about the dead woman or her family. But then neither would a bunch of scrotes from the settled community either.

But it wasn't people from the 'settled' community, it was Travellers - as usual. When the story broke I knew it was Travellers. Every time it's a story about diesel oil theft I know the name will be a Traveller one (McDonagh, Ward, Mongan etc). Every time it's a story about metal theft it's them. Every time it's a story about dog theft it's them. Every time it's a near riot at a wedding it's them. Every time it's a story about slavery in Britain it's them. Every time it's a story about horse neglect in a city like Kilkenny it's them. Every time it's a story about rioting in Waterford it's them. And on and on. They have the market cornered in many types of crime. An entire Garda operaton (Fiachla) has been setup for years now, entirely dealing with Travellers criminals roaming around the Country robbing isolated elderly people. Why are you drawing parallels when there isn't really any parallel?

As for 'it's only a small minority' - what are the rest? hard working, tax paying citizens? I've never worked with one, never met one in all my years beyond them asking me for money on the Train or holding me up with their sulky racing. They have no interest in interacting with the wider community unless there's a grant in it for them. 86% of them are on the scratcher. 86% !!

Lots of other statistics are here. For a small minority of trouble makers, they somehow manage to punch well above their weight when it comes to anti-social statistics.

reddit.com/r/travellers/comments/237ngq/traveller_statistics/

eviltwin · 26-10-2014 1:55pm

Part of the problem with travellers is that you can't discuss the problems within the community without being called a racist. I have no issue at all with travellers but having recently done some volunteer work with a group that supports traveller women its obvious that there are major social issues that have yet to be addressed properly. The people I met were all lovely and all wanted better for their children but didn't seem to want to do what needed to be done to make that happen. They were very emotionally immature, had very limited social skills - not their fault, they grow up in a very tribal, insular environment - but with all this money being put into traveller development programs its not racist to ask where the value is.

26-10-2014 2:20pm

Mod

Hi there Gustav_holst. Thank you for signing up to boards.ie to troll this forum and this thread

Please have a week off and don't post here again. Thanking you.

Can we move on from the traveller bashing now please folks. That would be just marvellous.

wicklowstevo · 26-10-2014 3:44pm

feel like i ve posted this before but , at what point does it stop being traveller bashing and become fact based on first hand personal experiences empirical statistical evidence and solid gold facts ?

while to one " positive " traveller in the media limelight is what ?? kelly mongan ??

tayto lover · 30-10-2014 2:07pm

Those saying that the Garda should not get involved in high speed chases would think otherwise if one of their relatives was taken at knife point in her own car.

Of course the garda should chase them --

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1030/655837-longford/

nelly17 · 30-10-2014 2:17pm

I think multiple Air support unts would be a help here - from my limited knowledge (and by limited I mean by watching Police camera Action) If a chase gets too dangerous the Police in the UK simply back off and leave it up to Air support to track until they are in a safer location to try and apprehend.

tayto lover · 30-10-2014 2:21pm

nelly17 wrote: »

I think multiple Air support unts would be a help here - from my limited knowledge (and by limited I mean by watching Police camera Action) If a chase gets too dangerous the Police in the UK simply back off and leave it up to Air support to track until they are in a safer location to try and apprehend.

The Garda have only the use of ONE helicopter it seems so that is a non-starter if it is already in use, pilot off, sick, holidays, bad flying conditions etc

nelly17 · 30-10-2014 2:23pm

Yeah thats kind of my point if they had multiple Air support units they could make better use of it as a service

tayto lover · 30-10-2014 2:26pm

nelly17 wrote: »

Yeah thats kind of my point if they had multiple Air support units they could make better use of it as a service

Can't see it happening with the country broke. They are driving around in 2001/2 cars at the minute as far as I can see. Bangers.

allibastor · 30-10-2014 3:10pm

Gustav_Holst wrote: »

But it wasn't people from the 'settled' community, it was Travellers - as usual. When the story broke I knew it was Travellers. Every time it's a story about diesel oil theft I know the name will be a Traveller one (McDonagh, Ward, Mongan etc). Every time it's a story about metal theft it's them. Every time it's a story about dog theft it's them. Every time it's a near riot at a wedding it's them. Every time it's a story about slavery in Britain it's them. Every time it's a story about horse neglect in a city like Kilkenny it's them. Every time it's a story about rioting in Waterford it's them. And on and on. They have the market cornered in many types of crime. An entire Garda operaton (Fiachla) has been setup for years now, entirely dealing with Travellers criminals roaming around the Country robbing isolated elderly people. Why are you drawing parallels when there isn't really any parallel?

As for 'it's only a small minority' - what are the rest? hard working, tax paying citizens? I've never worked with one, never met one in all my years beyond them asking me for money on the Train or holding me up with their sulky racing. They have no interest in interacting with the wider community unless there's a grant in it for them. 86% of them are on the scratcher. 86% !!

Lots of other statistics are here. For a small minority of trouble makers, they somehow manage to punch well above their weight when it comes to anti-social statistics.

reddit.com/r/travellers/comments/237ngq/traveller_statistics/

While the post is a bit of a troll, it does have a point unfortunately.

Looking at cold statistics of the traveller community the crime rate perperson in comparison with a settled person is very, very high.

This very unfortunate accident would have been not better off it it was asettled person as opposed to a traveller, the poor lady would still be dead,but why does it count as trolling to point out a very blatant fact.

I actually tried once in the past to give a traveller a job, He seemed likea nice guy and was interested in working on a site. Do you know what, He workedwell for 2 weeks then didnt come back. He left on a Friday, a day after we hadfibre optic cable dropped to site and on Sunday Morning the roll was stolen. Don’tknow if it was a coincidence or not but VERY suspicious

nelly17 · 30-10-2014 3:14pm

Personally I did'nt see it as trolling but perhaps this was a re-registered user with a history so what do I know

Yellowblackbird · 30-10-2014 3:18pm

allibastor wrote: »

He left on a Friday, a day after we hadfibre optic cable dropped to site and on Sunday Morning the roll was stolen. Don’tknow if it was a coincidence or not but VERY suspicious [/FONT]

why would he leave. the worst that could happen is you would sack him. there's a chance you mightn't of suspected him and he could go on sharing info with his friends.

allibastor · 30-10-2014 3:22pm

No Idea why he left, but we did chase him for a PPS no. for the two weeks he was there and didnt get it, so he was paid by cheque.

I had heard after the fact from some other site based people that this did happen, or lads would come to clean sites, perform other small duties etc, and things would go missing right afterwards.

Bit off topic on the lady who was killed, but I doubt the crash had anything to do with the people being travellers, as mentioned before, scrots will be scrots no matter where they come from.

punisher5112 · 30-10-2014 3:36pm

Does it get any bigger then this.

The writing font I mean.

As said befrore R.I.P to the woman and hopefully the culprits are made suffer but I will not hold my breath as it will be a miracle if they ever improve our legal system.

We need someone to actuaally stand up to these thugs and carrer criminals and approach things a little different.

For some reason Ireland and it's do gooders oh and legal system are all for the criminal and what rights and entitlements they have.

We need special units set up and a trainning sytem set up to give proper education to the Gardai with driving tactics.

That car should have been forced off the road at the start as if they weren't going to stop for a barrier they were not going to stop for Gardai.

P.I.T should be thought and used here as the only ones that would potentially be hurt are the criminals once done correctly and at the right time.
We know the chase/following went on for some time and this should not be tolerated and yes we have a chopper but by the time that would have gotten there the car could be gone.

The motorway was the best place to P.I.T them and should have been done.

Things have to change here and honestly in the UK also as we just follow them just usually a few years behind and they have lost control with youths,gangs, criminals and so on and no respect towards any form of authority.

mikom · 30-10-2014 3:43pm

Lapin wrote: »

FFS What kind of cretinous arseholes bring a child on a burglary spree? Absolute pure and utter scum.

The kind that require a slim jung lad to slip in an open window then let the rest in.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 3:45pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Does it get any bigger then this.

The writing font I mean.

As said befrore R.I.P to the woman and hopefully the culprits are made suffer but I will not hold my breath as it will be a miracle if they ever improve our legal system.

We need someone to actuaally stand up to these thugs and carrer criminals and approach things a little different.

For some reason Ireland and it's do gooders oh and legal system are all for the criminal and what rights and entitlements they have.

We need special units set up and a trainning sytem set up to give proper education to the Gardai with driving tactics.

That car should have been forced off the road at the start as if they weren't going to stop for a barrier they were not going to stop for Gardai.

P.I.T should be thought and used here as the only ones that would potentially be hurt are the criminals once done correctly and at the right time.
We know the chase/following went on for some time and this should not be tolerated and yes we have a chopper but by the time that would have gotten there the car could be gone.

The motorway was the best place to P.I.T them and should have been done.

Things have to change here and honestly in the UK also as we just follow them just usually a few years behind and they have lost control with youths,gangs, criminals and so on and no respect towards any form of authority.

and the UK follows murika. that country is more out of control then the UK or ourselves could ever be.

whiskeyman · 30-10-2014 3:54pm

After the vigilantes down in Waterford, why couldn't a similar mob be organised to 'greet' these five citizens on their release out of hospital?
They've caused the death of an innocent woman, and have probably terrorised many folks on their crime sprees.
But alas, a few Romany pick pockets are worth burning out of their house...

allibastor · 30-10-2014 3:57pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Does it get any bigger then this.

The writing font I mean.

As said befrore R.I.P to the woman and hopefully the culprits are made suffer but I will not hold my breath as it will be a miracle if they ever improve our legal system.

We need someone to actuaally stand up to these thugs and carrer criminals and approach things a little different.

For some reason Ireland and it's do gooders oh and legal system are all for the criminal and what rights and entitlements they have.

We need special units set up and a trainning sytem set up to give proper education to the Gardai with driving tactics.

That car should have been forced off the road at the start as if they weren't going to stop for a barrier they were not going to stop for Gardai.

P.I.T should be thought and used here as the only ones that would potentially be hurt are the criminals once done correctly and at the right time.
We know the chase/following went on for some time and this should not be tolerated and yes we have a chopper but by the time that would have gotten there the car could be gone.

The motorway was the best place to P.I.T them and should have been done.

Things have to change here and honestly in the UK also as we just follow them just usually a few years behind and they have lost control with youths,gangs, criminals and so on and no respect towards any form of authority.

Do agree fully, we spend more time working with and helping the person who does the crime than we do helping the people who the crime is committed on.

Just for arguement sake, what happens to the family of a murder victim after the trial? I know from watching all those prison programs that help is made available to those who did the killing. we have officers who even get the houseing when they leave.
Is there a fund set up for a family who have a parent murdered who is the sole provider?

end of the road · 30-10-2014 4:21pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

After the vigilantes down in Waterford, why couldn't a similar mob be organised to 'greet' these five citizens on their release out of hospital?
They've caused the death of an innocent woman, and have probably terrorised many folks on their crime sprees.
But alas, a few Romany pick pockets are worth burning out of their house...

vigilante vermin are as bad as the criminals. the ERU should be called in to arrest the filth in waterford who whine about breaking the law while breaking the law themselves when it suits them all the while whining about others breaking the law (and so on)

HeidiHeidi · 30-10-2014 4:39pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

We need special units set up and a trainning sytem set up to give proper education to the Gardai with driving tactics.

That car should have been forced off the road at the start as if they weren't going to stop for a barrier they were not going to stop for Gardai.

Are you seriously suggesting that if Gardai drove a car off the road and seriously injured/killed one or more of the occupants (regardless of what heinous crime they'd just allegedly committed) there wouldn't be a sh*tstorm of monumental proportions and calls for the Gardai's heads on plates?

If you are, you're very naive.

Never EVER gonna happen, no matter how attractive it sounds.

bear1 · 30-10-2014 4:45pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that if Gardai drove a car off the road and seriously injured/killed one or more of the occupants (regardless of what heinous crime they'd just allegedly committed) there wouldn't be a sh*tstorm of monumental proportions and calls for the Gardai's heads on plates?

If you are, you're very naive.

Never EVER gonna happen, no matter how attractive it sounds.

I seem to remember a story not too long ago about a chase along the M1 heading towards the North.
Think it was a couple of burglars and they were being chased by a few Gaurds including the Armed response team.
They managed to get rolling block on the traffic while the chase moved on ahead where the Guards then performed a PIT maneuver successfully.
I think there is a video on Youtube of it or at least the aftermath.
They did it very well with no injuries.
If done properly and in the right environment then they can be done relatively safely.

punisher5112 · 30-10-2014 4:50pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that if Gardai drove a car off the road and seriously injured/killed one or more of the occupants (regardless of what heinous crime they'd just allegedly committed) there wouldn't be a sh*tstorm of monumental proportions and calls for the Gardai's heads on plates?

If you are, you're very naive.

Never EVER gonna happen, no matter how attractive it sounds.

Not naive as I believe I should be able to move about without been taken out by a uninsured and a scum bag who has been making peoples lives a misery times 5 in this case.

So you are happy to let these criminals drive like they did and drive through anyone and everyone.

Wow I don't think I am this one you call naive.

I live in the real world and have seen things and even been hit by a red light runner who was trying to get away.

Please save it and set up another thread for the rights and entitlements of the poor criminals.

The Polo they had bought for €100 should not have had a chance to get near anyone else on the road and there are special tactics for taking a dangerously driven car off the road as to protect the public as that is what our and any police force are for.

Here is a clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDMDmLzy_io

Highflyer13 · 30-10-2014 4:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mod

Hi there Gustav_holst. Thank you for signing up to boards.ie to troll this forum and this thread

Please have a week off and don't post here again. Thanking you.

Can we move on from the traveller bashing now please folks. That would be just marvellous.

Doesnt look like a troll. I agree with all he said and I would say many people do. I hate the way we have to tip toe over issues involving travellers whilst they continue to wreak havok across the country.

punisher5112 · 30-10-2014 4:56pm

Anyone who is a thief, attacker, criminal of these types are all scum so really has nothing to do with what colour or type of religion and so on it is the person themselves and what they decided to do.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 5:16pm

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Doesnt look like a troll. I agree with all he said and I would say many people do. I hate the way we have to tip toe over issues involving travellers whilst they continue to wreak havok across the country.

we don't have to tiptoe. whats being weeded out is the making more of an issue of something when a traveler or foreigner is involved over when anyone else is involved

Galwayguy35 · 30-10-2014 6:15pm

end of the road wrote: »

we don't have to tiptoe. whats being weeded out is the making more of an issue of something when a traveler or foreigner is involved over when anyone else is involved

Well you know what, I think more should be made of it when it's a foreigner, we have enough home grown skangers theiving all around them but when someone comes to our country and breaks the law then it should be highlighted.

JillyQ · 30-10-2014 6:19pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well you know what, I think more should be made of it when it's a foreigner, we have enough home grown skangers theiving all around them but when someone comes to our country and breaks the law then it should be highlighted.

Agree with you about having enough of our own home grown skangers.

allibastor · 30-10-2014 6:27pm

end of the road wrote: »

we don't have to tiptoe. whats being weeded out is the making more of an issue of something when a traveler or foreigner is involved over when anyone else is involved

To be fair it is a small bit of the issue, they had previous convictions for being scumbags. It is the same when a serial robber is let out on bail for the 1000th time and then kills someone, we all jump up and down about that.
The fact that they are travellers adds to the problem, but not a cause of it

The_Captain · 30-10-2014 6:30pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

After the vigilantes down in Waterford, why couldn't a similar mob be organised to 'greet' these five citizens on their release out of hospital?
They've caused the death of an innocent woman, and have probably terrorised many folks on their crime sprees.
But alas, a few Romany pick pockets are worth burning out of their house...

Those vigilantes are just racist scummers.

Will we form and mob and turf out the guys that petrol bombed a house with children in it? No, we'll go for a couple of beggars because the other guys might fight back.

Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

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