More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

Barely There · 24-10-2014 11:23AM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm sorry, I meant to say "all" - my point was that it is not appropriate to tar them all with the same brush.

Birds of a feather......

Happyman42 · 24-10-2014 11:24AM

sallymomo wrote: »

Childish gobdaw comment, meant to stifle debate

Like these two intelligent retorts..

"Somebody's just having a little cry that their own post didn't get the attention they were sure it deserved."

"Run along and "Remove thanks" there.
Confused much?"

You didn't post any sources in your post and when asked you still didn't do it. It's a basic expectation on the forum.
What did the poster achieve by posting what he did and not progressing the debate by making the comparison he was asked to make? He stopped the debate, dead in it's tracks.

sallymomo · 24-10-2014 11:27AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

You didn't post any sources in your post and when asked you still didn't do it. It's a basic expectation on the forum.
What did the poster achieve by posting what he did and not progressing the debate by making the comparison he was asked to make? He stopped the debate, dead in it's tracks.

If it's basic expectation then the mods should close this thread now as both sides to this debate have been lacking on that front.

It still doesn't give the right for that type of reply, same as you referring to the gobdaw childish reply (in your opinion) that you received.
Both sides of any debate should be given the same courtesy, don't you think?

Eamondomc · 24-10-2014 11:30AM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

In fairness there is absolutely no evidence to support your allegation that current members of SF are in any way involved in the IRA or have a "history of violence" towards anyone.

Another post has answered this. No more to say on that 1.

Happyman42 · 24-10-2014 11:40AM

sallymomo wrote: »

If it's basic expectation then the mods should close this thread now as both sides to this debate have been lacking on that front.

It still doesn't give the right for that type of reply, same as you referring to the gobdaw childish reply (in your opinion) that you received.
Both sides of any debate should be given the same courtesy, don't you think?

I try to g ive courtesy.to people who want to debate properly. I don't see un-sourced, unsubstantiated allegations and offensive comment as fair 'debate' though.

ThisRegard · 24-10-2014 11:42AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

I try to g ive courtesy.to people who want to debate properly. I don't see un-sourced, unsubstantiated allegations and offensive comment as fair 'debate' though.

So Martin Ferris and Dessie Ellis, in an refute to a posters claim that no current SF members were ever in the IRA, were never in the IRA and there's no evidence to say otherwise ?

Eamondomc · 24-10-2014 11:42AM

This thread was started to discuss " More Crap on Adams" and I along with a lot of other posters have deffo strayed away from it from time to time. As I explained earlier I am not really anti sinn fein. I believe they are a really progressive party with decent enough core values. I have voted in the past for sinn fein. Its just this Maria Cahill case that gets my goat.I just want to know who believes Gerry Adams acted reasonably and responsibly in this case?. Will the Eamondomc bashers just answer that question for me. Yes or no will do

sallymomo · 24-10-2014 11:47AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

I try to g ive courtesy.to people who want to debate properly. I don't see un-sourced, unsubstantiated allegations and offensive comment as fair 'debate' though.

I agree with you on this, reread my post.
My list of facts post was from articles directly relating to the trail of GA's brother. I have stated before that my motivation is non political. I'm not here to have a mudslinging contest or throw out offensive/patronising comments with SF supporters about FG/FF/British etc etc.
So to that end, I think i'll sit back and watch this unfold as I feel like I'm stuck on a roundabout with no exit.

I'll revisit if or when this progresses.

Best of luck with your debate

FreudianSlippers · 24-10-2014 12:10PM

Barely There wrote: »

Birds of a feather......

Except that doesn't carry any weight legally.

Eamondomc wrote: »

Another post has answered this. No more to say on that 1.

I am not sure to what you are referring.

ThisRegard wrote: »

So Martin Ferris and Dessie Ellis, in an refute to a posters claim that no current SF members were ever in the IRA, were never in the IRA and there's no evidence to say otherwise ?

Nobody said that no current SF members were ever in the IRA. There is no evidence that all current members of SF are or were ever members of the IRA.

Creative Juices · 24-10-2014 12:13PM

Q. What is the downside of replacing Adams with Mary Lou as party leader?

FreudianSlippers · 24-10-2014 12:20PM

Creative Juices wrote: »

Q. What is the downside of replacing Adams with Mary Lou as party leader?

She's as thick as a plank. At least Adams is cunning and politically intelligent. MLMcD is belligerent and unintelligent.

K-9 · 24-10-2014 12:21PM

Mod: I've had to delete a whole lot of tripe and crap, there was soooo much there's probably some left behind!

maccored wrote: »

a lot of people on this thread should read this - apologies if its been mentioned already - http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/political-point-scoring-does-a-disservice-to-mairia-cahill-293478.html

Indeed, there's a lot of it going on in this thread, both sides.

michael999999 wrote: »

Oh ya. Prime Time the bastion of truth.

Remind me of the time they falsely accused the priest again!

This is getting very old. The Independent, Prime Time and God knows what else isn't acceptable to you. Either debate the point or don't bother posting at all.

Everybody else, think before you post. Make sure it's on topic and adds something to the thread, off topicry, whataboutery (there's been enough of it) and back seat moderation will result in bans from now on.

Godge · 24-10-2014 12:41PM

crusher000 wrote: »

Well If Gerry Adams failed the victim which he now says he has it's more than the State here has done regarding GoldenBridge etc, They have acknowledged their failings in all the child abuse scandals but how many of our politicians have been prosecuted for these failings ? When it suits though the full rigours of the law should be fall on this individual , Gerry Adams. If we are to have standards within politics and the establishment in Ireland it should be the same standards for all. Then we can say we have a fair and just society.

Oh, I agree.

Albert Reynolds lost his job as Taoiseach because he failed in ensuring a paedophile priest Brendan Smyth was brought swiftly to justice.

Bishop Brendan Comiskey lost his job because he was aware of cases of child sexual abuse that hadn't been reported to the Gardai and was involved in a cover-up.

For Gerry Adams sake, I hope he is running out gathering information on the cases he talked about on his blog in case the same standards are applied to him.

jank · 24-10-2014 01:53PM

The ironic thing is that the majority of Sinn Fein Supporters would be seen as anti-establishment (or anti free state) and would be quite vitriolic in their condemnation against such institutions namely the Roman Catholic Church who would have been seen as a conservative element in Irish society. Of course when the child abuse scandals of the 90's broke many a shiner was leading the line in their condemnation.

Now, in 2014 something of a similar nature seen daylight and it is another institution of Ireland, the IRA which is now in the limelight under similar circumstances. Will the same people be so quick to condemn? Will they ****!

Horrible double standard.

crusher000 · 24-10-2014 01:55PM

Godge wrote: »

Oh, I agree.

Albert Reynolds lost his job as Taoiseach because he failed in ensuring a paedophile priest Brendan Smyth was brought swiftly to justice.

Bishop Brendan Comiskey lost his job because he was aware of cases of child sexual abuse that hadn't been reported to the Gardai and was involved in a cover-up.

For Gerry Adams sake, I hope he is running out gathering information on the cases he talked about on his blog in case the same standards are applied to him.

To my point exactly if he has been found to have done wrong he should have to answer the same as the examples you have outlined. However he is not formely under investigation, If Enda Kenny thinks that strongly about it he should report a crime to An Garda so the full rigours of the law are applied to Gerry Adams. What crime has he committed ? Was he invovled in a cover up ? He informed the victim Marie Chaill to go to the RUC, but like in all cases this is one persons word against another so how can this be resolved ?

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-10-2014 01:59PM

crusher000 wrote: »

To my point exactly if he has been found to have done wrong he should have to answer the same as the examples you have outlined. However he is not formely under investigation, If Enda Kenny thinks that strongly about it he should report a crime to An Garda so the full rigours of the law are applied to Gerry Adams. What crime has he committed ? Was he invovled in a cover up ? He informed the victim Marie Chaill to go to the RUC, but like in all cases this is one persons word against another so how can this be resolved ?

The crimes were committed in the UK akaik

crusher000 · 24-10-2014 01:59PM

jank wrote: »

The ironic thing is that the majority of Sinn Fein Supporters would be seen as anti-establishment (or anti free state) and would be quite vitriolic in their condemnation against such institutions namely the Roman Catholic Church who would have been seen as a conservative element in Irish society. Of course when the child abuse scandals of the 90's broke many a shiner was leading the line in their condemnation.

Now, in 2014 something of a similar nature seen daylight and it is another institution of Ireland, the IRA which is now in the limelight under similar circumstances. Will the same people be so quick to condemn? Will they ****!

Horrible double standard.

Since when were the IRA an Institution of Ireland ? The were an illegal terror organisation and going by your comparison you expect them to have the same rules and regulations as an organisation such as the Catholic Church.

crusher000 · 24-10-2014 02:01PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The crimes were committed in the UK akaik

Extradite him so to face charges.

raymon · 24-10-2014 02:01PM

jank wrote: »

The ironic thing is that the majority of Sinn Fein Supporters would be seen as anti-establishment (or anti free state) and would be quite vitriolic in their condemnation against such institutions namely the Roman Catholic Church who would have been seen as a conservative element in Irish society. Of course when the child abuse scandals of the 90's broke many a shiner was leading the line in their condemnation.

Now, in 2014 something of a similar nature seen daylight and it is another institution of Ireland, the IRA which is now in the limelight under similar circumstances. Will the same people be so quick to condemn? Will they ****!

Horrible double standard.

Indeed !

http://republican-news.org/current/news/2012/05/huge_pressure_on_cardinal_to_r.html#.VEpMw09OWM8

Sinn Fein MP Martin McGuinness said that he had called on Cardinal Brady to consider his position two years ago, when the allegations first surfaced.

Sinn Fein deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald said it was her personal view that Dr Brady’s position was “not tenable”.

FreudianSlippers · 24-10-2014 02:02PM

jank wrote: »

The ironic thing is that the majority of Sinn Fein Supporters would be seen as anti-establishment (or anti free state) and would be quite vitriolic in their condemnation against such institutions namely the Roman Catholic Church who would have been seen as a conservative element in Irish society. Of course when the child abuse scandals of the 90's broke many a shiner was leading the line in their condemnation.

Now, in 2014 something of a similar nature seen daylight and it is another institution of Ireland, the IRA which is now in the limelight under similar circumstances. Will the same people be so quick to condemn? Will they ****!

Horrible double standard.

This. SF would have a lot more credibility in my view if they at least feigned an interest in this. I'm not saying Adams should be thrown under the bus, but there must be a better way of dealing with this situation.

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-10-2014 02:02PM

crusher000 wrote: »

Extradite him so to face charges.

y point is

why would Enda Kenny call the guards on him? If there was a crime committed it would be up to the UK authorities to request an extradition for him.

FreudianSlippers · 24-10-2014 02:05PM

crusher000 wrote: »

Extradite him so to face charges.

What charges have been brought against him?

crusher000 · 24-10-2014 02:08PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

y point is

why would Enda Kenny call the guards on him? If there was a crime committed it would be up to the UK authorities to request an extradition for him.

So Gerry Adams has nothing to answer then ?????

raymon · 24-10-2014 02:11PM

What a hypocrite Gerry Adams is ?

“Speaking personally, I do think (Cardinal Brady) should (consider his position), of course he should,” said a pensive sounding Mr Adams.

http://www.longfordleader.ie/news/local-news/adams-says-cardinal-should-reflect-on-position-as-political-pressure-mounts-1-3810557

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-10-2014 02:18PM

crusher000 wrote: »

So Gerry Adams has nothing to answer then ?????

Oh i am sure he has plenty to answer for

Barely There · 24-10-2014 02:47PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

This. SF would have a lot more credibility in my view if they at least feigned an interest in this. I'm not saying Adams should be thrown under the bus, but there must be a better way of dealing with this situation.

Throw him under two busses?

Godge · 24-10-2014 02:53PM

crusher000 wrote: »

To my point exactly if he has been found to have done wrong he should have to answer the same as the examples you have outlined. However he is not formely under investigation, If Enda Kenny thinks that strongly about it he should report a crime to An Garda so the full rigours of the law are applied to Gerry Adams. What crime has he committed ? Was he invovled in a cover up ? He informed the victim Marie Chaill to go to the RUC, but like in all cases this is one persons word against another so how can this be resolved ?

Albert Reynolds was not convicted in a court of law beyond any reasonable doubt of doing anything wrong.

Brendan Comiskey was not convicted in a court of law beyond any reasonable doubt of doing anything wrong.

In both cases, they protested their innocence at length and in Albert Reynold's case he went to the grave convinced he was removed as Taoiseach unfairly.

A lot of people are falling into the trap of suggesting that Gerry Adams should only be subject to the standard of whether he has committed a crime. That is not the standard applied to public figures. Charles Haughey, Bertie Ahern, Albert Reynolds, Alan Shatter, the list goes on of politicians who were never convicted in a court of law but who were forced into resignation. Gerry Adams TD is not Gerry Adams, ordinary Joe Soap, and like it or not, different standards apply.

The question the general public have is whether Gerry Adams and SF/IRA did and are doing everything in their power to ensure that rapists and child sexual abusers that were members of the SF and/or IRA organisation and which were let go across the border to reoffend, are caught and brought to justice by the Gardai and the PSNI. It is not enough as the SF MLA tried to say earlier today that she doesn't know of any details. Well, the general public isn't stupid. They know that if Gerry Adams doesn't know who these rapists are, he knows the people who know who the rapists are and he can get that information with a quick phone call and give it to the Gardai and the social services. The failure of SF/IRA to do that to date shows the contempt that they have for the nation's children. And nobody needs a court of law to be able to reach that conclusion.

Finally, I really don't care whether Gerry Adams stays or goes, I have no respect for the man one way or another (since the Liam Adams case). What I do care about is that the names of the rapists and sex abusers expelled by SF/IRA are given to the Gardai and the social services.

walshb · 24-10-2014 02:57PM

Godge wrote: »

A lot of people are falling into the trap of suggesting that Gerry Adams should only be subject to the standard of whether he has committed a crime. That is not the standard applied to public figures. Charles Haughey, Bertie Ahern, Albert Reynolds, Alan Shatter, the list goes on of politicians who were never convicted in a court of law but who were forced into resignation. Gerry Adams TD is not Gerry Adams, ordinary Joe Soap, and like it or not, different standards apply.
.

In a nutshell. The man shouldn't be leader of the party with all that has went on in recent times. I have had a lot of respect/admiration for Gerry through the years, a lot of respect for many Nationalists in the North who have faced serious difficulties and challenges in living, but we are past that now, and standards have to be of importance. He is not doing SF any good by remaining as their leader.

Godge · 24-10-2014 03:37PM

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/10/23/assertion-in-blog-is-shameful-and-cruel-mcdonald/

A full account of the behaviour of one of Gerry's "decent" people.

gallag · 24-10-2014 03:47PM

Godge wrote: »

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/10/23/assertion-in-blog-is-shameful-and-cruel-mcdonald/

A full account of the behaviour of one of Gerry's "decent" people.

reading that it's hard to see how gerry can come back from this!

More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

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