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remove that niqab or leave!

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    #452
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    CptMackey wrote: »
    Don't you see the problem? She NEVER covered her face before so why now?
    What has changed?

    She changed religion
    She converts to Islam because of her husband and bam face covered. It can't be for cultural reasons as she is Irish so it must be religious.
    Therefore it stands to reason that it was imposed on her.

    No one is denying she wears it for religious reasons, it's the fact you keep harping on that it was "imposed" on here.
    We shouldn't be allowing peoples faces to be covered for religious reasons(stupid reason) .

    So should this man be forced to shave his beard because it covers his face?

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/20/article-2608744-1D36401300000578-916_634x415.jpg
    As for talking to Muslims , I deal with them every day. Most are fine however when I meet women with their face covered it is impossible to deal with them .
    And if their husbands are there you can't even look at them.

    Maybe the issue is you and not them.
    Ban covering the face on religious grounds and ban any other religious rubbish along with it. Not just islam but every denomination. We would all be better off.

    cool

    let's start with these lads

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScMB3nojwoLGVjoxNQq-JrdUZ1ZPJb8sVwoWn6J-5O0JK0i8hMzA

    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkgm9NzNlfy5HZ3Xt-Lba5Skaar84SJdrVsyyTpsBb-1lR5avUgw


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    #453
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    but why should we have people worrying about a punishment from a man here? (a garda for example should this "ban on religion" come into effect),

    surely by controlling these people's belief's by forcing them not to believe you are no better than the men you give out about for allegedly controlling these women's belief's

    By ban on religious nonsense I mean no veil covering the face, no religious schools a secular society where the Catholic church , Islam has no sway . Remove any and all references to God from the constitution etc. And tell people that if they come here they are welcome but you can't cover your face in public places with religious garb etc. Practice your religion but don't wave it in peoples faces and for the religion of peace that women are equal citizens in this country and if you don't like it there is the door


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    #454
    Remmy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    I don't want to live in a world where attractive middle eastern women aren't given the option to wear western clothes if they want to.


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    #455
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    CptMackey wrote: »
    By ban on religious nonsense I mean no veil covering the face, no religious schools a secular society where the Catholic church , Islam has no sway . Remove any and all references to God from the constitution etc. And tell people that if they come here they are welcome but you can't cover your face in public places with religious garb etc. Practice your religion but don't wave it in peoples faces and for the religion of peace that women are equal citizens in this country and if you don't like it there is the door

    and by banning those you are no different from the men banning women going out without them, you are again forcing a group of people to do something against their will because of what a handful of people want.

    i have no problem with our local supermarket displaying cribs at christmas (and when they tried to stop this i opposed it as i would if they were forcing me to wear a niqab, and i have stated this previously), i have no problems with students in our local university wearing religious items such as niqab's or cross chains or jedi outfits.

    if you aren't allowed wear religious garb in public places, how does a priest marry you? isn't a wedding in a church a "public place",

    what about nun's walking down the street?

    where does the madness end? why can people just not leave people believe what they want and wear what they want as long as they aren't forcing you or i to do it, who really cares what they do?


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    #456
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Why not get to know some Muslims and ask them instead?


    Ok, we get it, you know a few Muslims and this gives you the incredible insight that you possess. I'm beginning to think you have some sort of fetish for the niqab, like the idea behind it do ya?? If, given your insight, you could just explain to us the point of the niqab, I would appreciate it. I'm open minded and willing to learn more about it from someone such as yourself.


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    #457
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    Hoodwinked. Being honest with you I don't care if they believe in the tooth fairy . But when they cover their faces they are creating a barrier and fermenting and attitude of them vs us. It will only lead to problems . Just look at the uk.

    Thankfully France have seen sense


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    #458
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    The niqab is a sexist load of b*llocks. However, the only way it's going to be changed is when Muslim women themselves reject the notion of it. Fining some Algerian granny on her way to the shop isn't going to help that process.


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    #459
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Ok, we get it, you know a few Muslims and this gives you the incredible insight that you possess. I'm beginning to think you have some sort of fetish for the niqab, like the idea behind it do ya?? If, given your insight, you could just explain to us the point of the niqab, I would appreciate it. I'm open minded and willing to learn more about it from someone such as yourself.

    When confused resort to personal attacks,

    Stay classy ;)


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    #460
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 8,001 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    When confused resort to personal attacks,

    Stay classy ;)

    Timberrrrr, can I ask what gender you are?

    (ignore the query if you deem it too personal or intrusive)


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    #461
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Hitchens wrote: »
    Timberrrrr, can I ask what gender you are?

    (ignore the query if you deem it too personal or intrusive)

    I'm male, not sure where you're going with this or what it has to do with the discussion though.


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    #462
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    When confused resort to personal attacks,

    Stay classy ;)

    You're being oversensitive, I was asking you a question. Regarding the niqab, I didn't really expect you to know or understand the reasoning behind the wearing of it.

    At the end of the day, the French have banned covering your face in public, it applies to everyone in France. A lot of people agree with it and some don't. It's the law now so people will just have to accept it and move on.


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    #463
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    She was born a catholic and chose to convert when she met her husband. No she never covered her face before marriage and says she chose to do it when i asked if she HAD to wear it.

    Yeah, and when we used to ask my aunt what happened her face/arm/neck, she used to claim she fell/burned it cooking/something fell from the press.

    You expect someone who you are only acquaintances with to tell that you she was forced to cover up? Such naivety. It is not a religous garment, but a cultural one. If she was a convert, then it was never part of her culture.


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    #464
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    You're being oversensitive, I was asking you a question. Regarding the niqab, I didn't really expect you to know or understand the reasoning behind the wearing of it.

    At the end of the day, the French have banned covering your face in public, it applies to everyone in France. A lot of people agree with it and some don't. It's the law now so people will just have to accept it and move on.

    Yup that's the French law and they can do as they wish in their country, Thankfully Ireland is a bit more progressive than France when it comes to these sort of things and we won't have to worry about situations like this over here.


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    #465
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Yeah, and when we used to ask my aunt what happened her face/arm/neck, she used to claim she fell/burned it cooking/something fell from the press.

    You expect someone who you are only acquaintances with to tell that you she was forced to cover up? Such naivety.

    HA hahahahahaha

    Let me explain


    She is one of the most independent women i know, She has a career, she has a social life and she takes **** from NO ONE especially her husband, Trust me, in that house he may wear the trousers but she makes the decisions.

    Now this may not fit into your little stereotype of the Muslim woman and that's ok because from your posts it's obvious that the only knowledge you have of them is from the likes of FOX news.


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    #466
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,641 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Timberrrr, as a male you are prohibited by law in THIS country from wearing clothing that reveals your willy. or your bum. Ladies may not wear garments that reveal their nipples, (unless for feeding a child) or their bottoms etc likewise.

    And even then, there ARE people, all over the place, both here and abroad, who take offense at seeing the breasts of a mother nursing her child and demand that she "cover herself"...

    is this religious imposition? is it "cultural", whatever that means?
    Modesty is a very individual perception...you are not free of it, nor are the French: it is just different from one group to another, so why does respecting that diversity bother you so much?


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    #467
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    katemarch wrote: »
    Timberrrr, as a male you are prohibited by law in THIS country from wearing clothing that reveals your willy. or your bum. Ladies may not wear garments that reveal their nipples, (unless for feeding a child) or their bottoms etc likewise.

    Obviously never been near gay pride parade
    And even then, there ARE people, all over the place, both here and abroad, who take offense at seeing the breasts of a mother nursing her child and demand that she "cover herself"...

    There will always be people who are easily offended, especially uneducated ones who are afraid of what they don't understand.
    is this religious imposition? is it "cultural", whatever that means?
    Modesty is a very individual perception...you are not free of it, nor are the French: it is just different from one group to another, so why does respecting that diversity bother you so much?

    I respect peoples diversity, I don't respect laws that are created to oppress one small minority.


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    #468
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    i have often in winter went in to a shop to buy something wearing a scarf covering my face up over my nose and my hat down over my ears, sometimes unless i got too warm inside i wouldn't bother removing them especially if i'm just popping in and out to buy something, nothing was ever said nor did the shop assistants ever ask me to remove them,
    this is just a fear of a religion manifesting itself by blaming an item they wear

    and i find it funny to see people on here complaining about the fact in "their" country they wouldn't let us wear what we want, yet they are on here arguing they are not allowed to wear what they want here. why would we WANT to be like those countries telling people what they can and cannot wear?

    the way i see it, if (and thats a big if) the day ever comes they try and force me to wear a niqab, then i will stand up and fight for my right to wear what i want, until then i am going to leave them wear what they want.
    CptMackey wrote: »
    Hoodwinked. Being honest with you I don't care if they believe in the tooth fairy . But when they cover their faces they are creating a barrier and fermenting and attitude of them vs us. It will only lead to problems . Just look at the uk.

    Thankfully France have seen sense

    on the "they are covering their faces" it's as i said above
    this is just a fear of a religion manifesting itself by blaming an item they wear
    you also assume it will lead to problems? but what if it doesn't? what if tomorrow and the next day and the day after that are just the same as today with everybody cohabiting together, just like we are now?

    France hasn't "seen sense" they are just implementing more rules for the women to follow.


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    #469
    chatperche
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭chatperche


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I have never claimed to be any of the above but please feel free to point out where i have made this claim. Feel free to also post your full credentials that make you the expert on the above, "ZOMG i'm French" will not cut it though.

    I don't claim to be an expert but at least I have first hand knowledge of the subject matter. Having been born and raised in the country, raised on the French republican system and being in secondary school there when the law on religious signs was being discussed. That my friend gives me a lot more insight than someone whose knowledge comes from a colleague from Marseille and and an ultra liberal niquab wearing, converted colleen who goes around Dublin shaking guys hands.
    Now, may be the irish muslims are different from the ones I have met in France. In my experience you had the majority who are law abiding and understand that in school, or any republican buildings religious signs aren't accepted. That doesn't seem to bother them. Then you have the more extremist ones that do not even try remotely to integrate in the society, ask for segregation in the swimming pools and wear the niquab. Women wearing the niquab in my experience do not go round chatting to fellows and shaking their hands.


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    #470
    chatperche
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭chatperche


    And whether you think that the law is stupid, it's the law of the land. Simple as
    And that goes for your water charges too!


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    #471
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    HA hahahahahaha

    Let me explain


    She is one of the most independent women i know, She has a career, she has a social life and she takes **** from NO ONE especially her husband, Trust me, in that house he may wear the trousers but she makes the decisions.

    Now this may not fit into your little stereotype of the Muslim woman and that's ok because from your posts it's obvious that the only knowledge you have of them is from the likes of FOX news.

    Does she fight dragons in her spare time too?


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    #472
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 8,001 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I'm male, not sure where you're going with this or what it has to do with the discussion though.

    It's a bit like a virtual niqab or burka if you don't know who you're dealing with.

    Thanks for answering


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    #473
    chatperche
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭chatperche


    So tell me what's her career? I am curious to know who employs someone wearing the niqab. Surely someone so well au fait with islam and with so many muslim friends is not confusing the niqab with the hijab?


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    #474
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Does she fight dragons in her spare time too?

    Do you have a newsletter that i can subscribe to? :rolleyes:


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    #475
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    chatperche wrote: »
    So tell me what's her career? I am curious to know who employs someone wearing the niqab. Surely someone so well au fait with islam and with so many muslim friends is not confusing the niqab with the hijab?

    She works in a semi state body and that's all i am willing to reveal about her.


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    #476
    CaptainInsano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭CaptainInsano


    Why don't people who are robbing banks wear religious head gear to conceal their faces instead of balaclavas or motorbike helmets or clown masks?
    You get to rob the place and pin it on religion at the same time.

    Where can one purchase a niqab out of interest?


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    #477
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    She works in a semi state body and that's all i am willing to reveal about her.

    You've revealed a plethora of things about her all thread long.

    Furthermore, chatperche's being born and raised in France and subjected to the French education system gives him/her much more authority and qualification on this subject than me or you with your constantly repeated "I know a Muslim woman and she's sound... Go away the rest of you and talk to some Muslims..." drivel that you seem to think grants you an expertise and moral superiority on this issue.


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    #478
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    She must have been so embarrased. If only it had been done more descretly, or she was given some way to hide her blushes.


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    #479
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Obviously never been near gay pride parade



    There will always be people who are easily offended, especially uneducated ones who are afraid of what they don't understand.



    I respect peoples diversity, I don't respect laws that are created to oppress one small minority.

    If, that law had been created with the sole purpose of oppressing a minority, why was its legitimacy upheld in the ECHR?
    Or is that court a bastion of bigotry ?


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    #480
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CptMackey wrote: »
    she joined a cult that views women as property.

    just like the catholic church used children as property.
    CptMackey wrote: »
    A good a reason as any to ban the covering of the face

    its not. its to costly and would be taking resources from catching criminals

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #481
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    end of the road wrote: »
    just like the catholic church used children as property.



    its not. its to costly and would be taking resources from catching criminals

    Yes the Catholic church did . What's your point? I harbour no love for it.


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