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remove that niqab or leave!

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  • Options
    #482
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    end of the road wrote: »
    just like the catholic church used children as property.

    Slavery is bad too, there's trouble in Sweden and ebola is dangerous.

    What's your point?


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    #483
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CptMackey wrote: »
    Don't you see the problem? She NEVER covered her face before so why now?
    What has changed?

    i don't see the problem. she converted and therefore is respecting one of the customs of the religion.
    CptMackey wrote: »
    She converts to Islam because of her husband and bam face covered. It can't be for cultural reasons as she is Irish so it must be religious.
    Therefore it stands to reason that it was imposed on her.

    it doesn't stand to reason that it was imposed on her at all. believe it or not people do choose to take on the customs of a religion
    CptMackey wrote: »
    We shouldn't be allowing peoples faces to be covered for religious reasons(stupid reason) .

    we should, we really can't stop them. its not stupid if they say its not stupid.
    CptMackey wrote: »
    As for talking to Muslims , I deal with them every day. Most are fine however when I meet women with their face covered it is impossible to deal with them .

    you can. your making an issue out of nothing
    CptMackey wrote: »
    if their husbands are there you can't even look at them.

    of course you can
    CptMackey wrote: »
    Ban covering the face on religious grounds and ban any other religious rubbish along with it. Not just islam but every denomination. We would all be better off.

    and live in a dictatorship. great. get this. religion doesn't effect you me or anyone as we don't take part. you have no right to have your views imposed on religious people, if they want to wear something over the face thats their business, not mine or yours. you wanting to bann religious customs is imposing your views on people which makes you no better then the religious extremists

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #484
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CptMackey wrote: »
    By ban on religious nonsense I mean no veil covering the face, no religious schools a secular society where the Catholic church , Islam has no sway . Remove any and all references to God from the constitution etc. And tell people that if they come here they are welcome but you can't cover your face in public places with religious garb etc. Practice your religion but don't wave it in peoples faces and for the religion of peace that women are equal citizens in this country and if you don't like it there is the door
    but enforcing that would be the same as the likes of isis, and would mean large amounts of funding to enforce it being taken away from those that need it, hospitals, sick children, and so on. not worth it so you can impose your views on someone. time to get over it, its a non issue

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #485
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CptMackey wrote: »
    when they cover their faces they are creating a barrier and fermenting and attitude of them vs us.

    they aren't. only in your imagination.
    CptMackey wrote: »
    It will only lead to problems . Just look at the uk.

    which are blown out of proportion.
    CptMackey wrote: »
    Thankfully France have seen sense

    they haven't. they are imposing their views on to people and are no better then isis and other extremists. hopefully breaking of this law is rife in france and mass uncompliance will be the way.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #486
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    end of the road wrote: »
    but enforcing that would be the same as the likes of isis, and would mean large amounts of funding to enforce it being taken away from those that need it, hospitals, sick children, and so on. not worth it so you can impose your views on someone. time to get over it, its a non issue

    How would it be like isis? Why would you need large amounts of funding to make Ireland secular? I don't imagine a secular country beheading people for having faith


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    #487
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    You're being oversensitive, I was asking you a question. Regarding the niqab, I didn't really expect you to know or understand the reasoning behind the wearing of it.

    At the end of the day, the French have banned covering your face in public, it applies to everyone in France. A lot of people agree with it and some don't. It's the law now so people will just have to accept it and move on.
    or they could break it in mass, so much that if the government try anything there will be enough of a backclash to topple them. the french are known for their protesting whatever the cost so this won't be a problem

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #488
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,776 ✭✭✭SeanW


    end of the road wrote: »
    get this. religion doesn't effect you me or anyone as we don't take part.
    Do you even live in Ireland? Or know anything about Irish history? Religion hurts people who do not take part all the time.

    Whenever we defer to a religion or allow it any privilege in our society, we open the door to darkness, hatred and unimaginable misery. Our history of domination by the Catholic Church should serve us as a grim warning. Islam is 100 times worse as proven repeatedly in Islamic communities and societies.

    For Ireland to go from being controlled by the Catholic Church to being in any way deferential to Islam would be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. The French, Swiss and others recognise this and are acting accordingly.


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    #489
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    end of the road wrote: »
    or they could break it in mass, so much that if the government try anything there will be enough of a backclash to topple them. the french are known for their protesting whatever the cost so this won't be a problem

    you seem to be all for the veil. Doesn't seem to be much opposition to the ban in France apart from the Muslim population who support wearing of the veil burka etc


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    #490
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    SeanW wrote: »
    Do you even live in Ireland? Or know anything about Irish history? Religion hurts people who do not take part all the time.

    Whenever we defer to a religion or allow it any privilege in our society, we open the door to darkness, hatred and unimaginable misery. Our history of domination by the Catholic Church should serve us as a grim warning. Islam is 100 times worse as proven repeatedly in Islamic communities and societies.

    For Ireland to go from being controlled by the Catholic Church to being in any way deferential to Islam would be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. The French, Swiss and others recognise this and are acting accordingly.

    +1000


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    #491
    Vandango
    Closed Accounts Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Vandango


    Hitchens wrote: »

    Hopefully, we would do the same here!

    I'd rather we didn't.


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    #492
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    chatperche wrote: »
    I don't claim to be an expert but at least I have first hand knowledge of the subject matter. Having been born and raised in the country, raised on the French republican system and being in secondary school there when the law on religious signs was being discussed. That my friend gives me a lot more insight than someone whose knowledge comes from a colleague from Marseille and and an ultra liberal niquab wearing, converted colleen who goes around Dublin shaking guys hands.
    Now, may be the irish muslims are different from the ones I have met in France. In my experience you had the majority who are law abiding and understand that in school, or any republican buildings religious signs aren't accepted. That doesn't seem to bother them. Then you have the more extremist ones that do not even try remotely to integrate in the society, ask for segregation in the swimming pools and wear the niquab. Women wearing the niquab in my experience do not go round chatting to fellows and shaking their hands.
    there will always be extremists, ireland should know. we were ran by them for years and the rest

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #493
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    chatperche wrote: »
    And whether you think that the law is stupid, it's the law of the land. Simple as
    And that goes for your water charges too!
    and they are there to be broken.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #494
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    end of the road wrote: »
    and they are there to be broken.

    Does that go for all laws of the land?
    Or just a few?
    Who gets to decide which laws are okay to break?
    Why do 'they' get to decide?
    Can I not decide for myself which laws are okay to break and which laws should be upheld?


  • Options
    #495
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    jimboblep wrote: »
    If, that law had been created with the sole purpose of oppressing a minority, why was its legitimacy upheld in the ECHR?
    Or is that court a bastion of bigotry ?
    because france is one of the bosses of europe? okay on a serious note, i suppose they couldn't find any evidence it was brought in to oppress a minority but that doesn't mean it wasn't

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #496
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    SeanW wrote: »
    Do you even live in Ireland? Or know anything about Irish history?

    you know the answer. yes and yes.
    SeanW wrote: »
    Religion hurts people who do not take part all the time.

    very little in ireland now though.
    SeanW wrote: »
    Whenever we defer to a religion or allow it any privilege in our society, we open the door to darkness, hatred and unimaginable misery. Our history of domination by the Catholic Church should serve us as a grim warning. Islam is 100 times worse as proven repeatedly in Islamic communities and societies.

    were not giving a religion privelage any more. slowly were removing influence from schools for example.
    SeanW wrote: »
    For Ireland to go from being controlled by the Catholic Church to being in any way deferential to Islam would be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    but its not happening. so there is nothing to worry about.
    SeanW wrote: »
    The French, Swiss and others recognise this and are acting accordingly.

    they aren't. they are imposing their views on to people in the name of "security" and "western values" . values which these countries will break no problem if it suits their next agenda, make no mistake about it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #497
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CptMackey wrote: »
    you seem to be all for the veil. Doesn't seem to be much opposition to the ban in France apart from the Muslim population who support wearing of the veil burka etc
    i don't care about it to be honest, it doesn't effect my life in any way

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #498
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    end of the road wrote: »
    and they are there to be broken.

    And then punished


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    #499
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    end of the road wrote: »
    and they are there to be broken.


    Say no more, that's perfect.


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    #500
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    jimboblep wrote: »
    And then punished
    not the 2 laws mentioned. they are okay to break

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #501
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    SeanW wrote: »
    ................

    For Ireland to go from being controlled by the Catholic Church to being in any way deferential to Islam would be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. The French, Swiss and others recognise this and are acting accordingly.

    I knew I heard the Twillight zone music.....

    How, in the name of jaysus, is leaving some woman wearing a veil being "deferential to Islam" in any way worth considering?


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    #502
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    on the "they are covering their faces" it's as i said above you also assume it will lead to problems? but what if it doesn't? what if tomorrow and the next day and the day after that are just the same as today with everybody cohabiting together, just like we are now?

    France already regularly experiences riots.
    One of the main complaints coming from the people in the areas where these riots occur is that they feel alienated from society.
    This law was brought in to stop people alienating themselves from society.
    France hasn't "seen sense" they are just implementing more rules for the women to follow.
    These rules apply to all people regardless of gender.


  • Options
    #503
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    end of the road wrote: »
    not the 2 laws mentioned. they are okay to break
    No they are not.


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    #504
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    France already regularly experiences riots.
    One of the main complaints coming from the people in the areas where these riots occur is that they feel alienated from society.
    This law was brought in to stop people alienating themselves from society.

    ...............


    So, disaffected young men in deprived areas riot = ban tiny minority of women wearing niqab. Joined up thinkin.


  • Options
    #505
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    end of the road wrote: »
    not the 2 laws mentioned. they are okay to break

    But who gets to decide this EOTR?
    How do 'they' decide?
    Why these laws?


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    #506
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Nodin wrote: »
    So, disaffected young men in deprived areas riot = ban tiny minority of women wearing niqab. Joined up thinkin.
    Your missing the point.

    You can't complain about being alienated from society, while at the same time alienating yourself from society.


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    #507
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Nodin wrote: »
    So, disaffected young men in deprived areas riot = ban tiny minority of women wearing niqab. Joined up thinkin.


    Disaffected, deprived, and minority. 3 words which have nothing to do with a law against covering your face in public. It's a simple law for simple reasons, it's very understandable. You're reading way too much in to it.


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    #508
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Your missing the point.

    You can't complain about being alienated from society, while at the same time alienating yourself from society.

    Well you stated
    One of the main complaints coming from the people in the areas where these riots
    occur is that they feel alienated from society.
    This law was brought in to
    stop people alienating themselves from society.

    So the young lads were wearing niqabs?


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    #509
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Disaffected, deprived, and minority. 3 words which have nothing to do with a law against covering your face in public. It's a simple law for simple reasons, it's very understandable. You're reading way too much in to it.

    Yeah, a tiny, tiny number of French muslim women wore something the right didn't like, and to try and woo voters back from another party, Sarkozy brought in a law that effectively targeted them.


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    #510
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yeah, a tiny, tiny number of French muslim women wore something the right didn't like, and to try and woo voters back from another party, Sarkozy brought in a law that effectively targeted them.


    If you can prove that, I'll stand with you and we'll take it all the way to the top


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    #511
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    If you can prove that, I'll stand with you and we'll take it all the way to the top

    Prove what? Around 2,000 women wore the poxy thing. Taking the French muslim population as being 5 million, that's roughly 0.0004 percent. "social cohesion" and 'protecting French culture' my arse.


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