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remove that niqab or leave!

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    #542
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    end of the road wrote: »
    there worth suffering, in the case of the full vale in france especially, its effectively punishing people because "dayz mudlimz" . without saying as such

    If it's worth suffering, then catch a RyanAir flight to France and walk around in a mask, helmet, balaclava, niqāb or burqa. Practice what you preach. I hope the gendarmerie offer you a warm greeting.


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    #543
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...a law that effectively targets one group and was introduced with that group in mind.

    The errr "group" that covers their faces?

    What am I missing?


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    #544
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    reprise wrote: »
    The errr "group" that covers their faces?


    Strange isn't it


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    #545
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    end of the road wrote: »
    there worth suffering, in the case of the full vale in france especially, its effectively punishing people because "dayz mudlimz" . without saying as such

    Thats simply not true, you do realise a case was brought using that very reasoning.
    the ECHR upheld the ban stating " the ban was not expressly based on the religous connotation of the clothing" so its not designed to oppress muslims.
    unless of course your interpretation of legislation is superior to the judges in strasbourg.


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    #546
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Strange isn't it

    Cant quite make it out at all, I guess you're hard wired for racism or you're not.


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    #547
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    reprise wrote: »
    The errr "group" that covers their faces?

    What am I missing?

    That it was directed at muslims specifically

    "The issue of the burqa is not a religious issue. It is a question of freedom and of women’s dignity. The burqa is not a religious sign. It is a sign of subjugation, of the submission, of women .… I want to say solemnly that it will not be welcome on our territory "
    http://thehumanist.com/news/international/france-upholds-ban-on-burqas


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    #548
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    end of the road wrote: »
    no . as it wasn't against the french nation, but those who support enforce and who brought in this bigoted racist law

    I even heard in France (and possibly in Ireland as well?) there are laws which prevent you from cutting someone else's hand if you suspect them of stealing.

    I think the country is just falling into racism. The law is specifically targetting hard-core Muslims and preventing them from following the Sharia as they are entitled to. The level of bigotry there is to the roof - not sure I want to travel there any-more.


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    #549
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    That it was directed at muslims specifically

    "The issue of the burqa is not a religious issue. It is a question of freedom and of women’s dignity. The burqa is not a religious sign. It is a sign of subjugation, of the submission, of women .… I want to say solemnly that it will not be welcome on our territory "
    http://thehumanist.com/news/international/france-upholds-ban-on-burqas

    Sigh....

    But what about the Muslims that don't cover their faces. Let me guess. It's discriminating against them by NOT including them.

    Guess you are hard wired or you are not.


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    #550
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    reprise wrote: »
    Sigh....

    What about the Muslims that don't cover their faces.

    Guess you are hard wired or you are not.

    It was aimed at muslims ie muslims that wear the veil.


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    #551
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    jimboblep wrote: »
    Thats simply not true, you do realise a case was brought using that very reasoning.
    the ECHR upheld the ban stating " the ban was not expressly based on the religous connotation of the clothing" so its not designed to oppress muslims.
    unless of course your interpretation of legislation is superior to the judges in strasbourg.
    they weren't able to prove that it was the case so couldn't come to any other conclusion, i've no doubt though they probably realise that really "dayz mudlimz" was the reason for the law

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #552
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's been explained to you. Be obtuse all you want.
    you're the poster who always requires a link as proof of a statement.....................so, we are waiting


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    #553
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Hitchens wrote: »
    you're the poster who always requires a link as proof of a statement.....................so, we are waiting

    ~But do I always require one? No. I've explained it to you back here
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92718254&postcount=515

    If there's any question about that explanation you want to ask, feel free.


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    #554
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Nodin wrote: »
    It was aimed at muslims ie muslims that wear the veil.
    No it's not, it's aimed at people who cover their face for whatever reasons.
    If a Jewish woman wanted to wear a burqa she would be stopped too.


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    #555
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    end of the road wrote: »
    they weren't able to prove that it was the case so couldn't come to any other conclusion, i've no doubt though they probably realise that really "dayz mudlimz" was the reason for the law

    They couldnt prove it because it isnt the case, and it came back an almost unanimous decision.
    I think you should go read the courts statement, before making presumptions.
    they have previously found against turkey on a similar case


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    #556
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    No it's not, it's aimed at people who cover their face for whatever reasons.
    If a Jewish woman wanted to wear a burqa she would be stopped too.

    ......no, it was aimed specifically at muslim women who wear the veil. See the quote from Sarkozy a few posts back.


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    #557
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Nodin wrote: »
    ~But do I always require one? No. I've explained it to you back here
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92718254&postcount=515

    If there's any question about that explanation you want to ask, feel free.
    that's just your own gobbledegook ranting......................post a link to the law that you say doesn't apply to everyone in France

    (3rd time to ask)


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    #558
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    No it's not, it's aimed at people who cover their face for whatever reasons.
    If a Jewish woman wanted to wear a burqa she would be stopped too.

    Yep.

    Look up the Haredi burqa Jewish sect

    They are "discriminated" against in France too.

    Just as dotty as the niqab wearers.


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    #559
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Hitchens wrote: »
    that's just your own gobbledegook ranting......................post a link to the law that you say doesn't apply to everyone in France

    (3rd time to ask)


    Being obtuse again, are we? I've explained myself clearly in the post I've linked. You can ask me about that explanation, or go and 'do something productive'.


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    #560
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......no, it was aimed specifically at muslim women who wear the veil. See the quote from Sarkozy a few posts back.
    Sarkozy didn't say it was aimed at muslim women.
    Here's what he said
    "The problem of the burka is not a religious problem, it's a problem of liberty and women's dignity. It's not a religious symbol, but a sign of subservience and debasement. I want to say solemnly, the burka is not welcome in France. In our country, we can't accept women prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity. That's not our idea of freedom."
    From the link you posted the only mention of the work muslim is:
    "We must not fight the wrong battle. In the republic, the Muslim religion must be respected as much as other religions."


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    #561
    Radly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Radly


    end of the road wrote: »
    not the 2 laws mentioned. they are okay to break

    wtf, since when?


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    #562
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......no, it was aimed specifically at muslim women who wear the veil. See the quote from Sarkozy a few posts back.

    No silly. If you wear the veil in France, it applies to you, even if Sarkozy left you out.

    Guess you are wired for racism or you are not.


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    #563
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Sarkozy didn't say it was aimed at muslim women.
    Here's what he said

    ...which effectively targets a group of muslim women who wear face coverings. Therefore......


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    #564
    Radly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Radly


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yeah, a tiny, tiny number of French muslim women wore something the right didn't like, and to try and woo voters back from another party, Sarkozy brought in a law that effectively targeted them.

    Link to show he brought the law in to woo voters and not for the greater good of protecting women in french society please


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    #565
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...which effectively targets a group of muslim women who wear face coverings. Therefore......

    Therefore you are a one trick pony only capable of ever seeing racism and discrimination in everyone but yourself.


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    #566
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    reprise wrote: »
    Therefore you are a one trick pony only capable of ever seeing racism and discrimination in everyone but yourself.

    .....is this random statement hour?


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    #567
    SwiftJustice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭SwiftJustice


    But what if she had farted in that burqa during the performance?? She could have suffocated in the fumes. Better to be safe then sorry.


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    #568
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....is this random statement hour?

    Whats that got to do with racism?


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    #569
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....is this random statement hour?
    well................4th time


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    #570
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....is this random statement hour?

    He's pointing out (I think). That discrimination, to the benefit of someone because of their race, is still racism.

    There's nothing racist in the law. It affects anyone and everyone who covers their face. It is unfortunate that this affects some woman who like to cover their face.

    And yes, they are only wearing it because they like to. (or being forced..either way. religion is an excuse.)


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    #571
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    reprise wrote: »
    No silly. If you wear the veil in France, it applies to you, even if Sarkozy left you out.

    Guess you are wired for racism or you are not.

    And actually to clarify ... this law does not apply to anyone (muslim or not) wearing the veil in public.

    It does apply to someone who is covering there face fully and making it completely unrecognisable (that is a would include an infime minority of Muslim women who are wearing the Niqab, but not the ones wearing the veal).


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