Mux 2 Launched / Saorview Rescan Required

satelliteman20 · 16-10-2014 8:21pm

on my amiko 11 rte one+1 and 21 news now are labelled and are in 704x576 resolution its about time

The Cush · 16-10-2014 10:05pm

satelliteman20 wrote: »

on my amiko 11 rte one+1 and 21 news now are labelled and are in 704x576 resolution its about time

Can you confirm the resolution of the other SD channels?

A few posts back lawhec says his receiver indicates the 2RN SD streams are 528x576 and not 544x576 resolution.

satelliteman20 · 16-10-2014 10:29pm

tv3 tg4 and 3e show 528x576 but i think thats a glitch with some boxs there really 544x576

The Cush · 17-10-2014 1:02am

satelliteman20 wrote: »

tv3 tg4 and 3e show 528x576 but i think thats a glitch with some boxs there really 544x576

I dug out my old Terratec DVB-T dongle and downloaded the demo version of DVBViewer Pro to check the video resolution readings.

RTÉ One +1 & RTÉ News Now (LCNs 11 & 21) - 704x576
All other SD channels - 544x576
HD channels - 1440 x 1088

The Cush · 17-10-2014 2:08am

Current Saorview multiplex line-up

Channel line-up by LCN on a Saorview TV setup with Ireland as the country/region on first install

LCN

|

Channel

|

Resolution

|

Mux

|
01|RTÉ One|HD - 1440 x 1088|2|
02|RTÉ 2|HD - 1440 x 1088|1|
03|TV3|SD - 544x576|1|
04|TG4|SD - 544x576|1|
05|3e|SD - 544x576|1|
06| (no channel name/RTÉ News Now) |SD - 544x576|1|
07|RTÉ Junior**|SD - 544x576|2|
08| (no channel name/RTÉ One +1**) |SD - 544x576|2|
09*|(no channel name/testcard/Raidió na Gaeltachta audio)|SD - 544x576|2|
10*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD - 544x576|2|
11*|RTÉ One +1|SD - 704x576|2|
12*| (no channel name/testcard) |HD - 1440 x 1088|2|
13*|(no channel name/testcard/Lyric audio)|SD - 544x576|2|RTÉ Lyric FM audio
14*|(no channel name/testcard)|HD - 1440 x 1088|2|TG4 subtitles and teletext tested previously
15*|(blank)||2|previously - Test transmission/RTÉ One +1
16*| (no channel name/testcard) |SD - 544x576|2|
17*| (no channel name/testcard) |SD - 544x576|2|
18*|(no channel name/no testcard/tone) |SD - 544x576|1|previously - LCN08 RTÉ1 +1
19*|(no channel name/no testcard/tone)|SD - 544x576|1|
20*|(no channel name/no testcard/tone)|SD - 544x576|1|
21*|RTÉ News Now|SD - 704x576|1|previously - LCN07 RTÉ Junior, LCN17 Oireachtas TV test transmission
22*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD - 544x576|1|previously - LCN01/11 RTÉ1 SD
23-26*|(blank)||1|
27-31*|(blank)||2|
32-42*|(blank)||1|
43-50*|(blank)||2|
200|RTÉ Radio 1|Radio|1|
201|RTÉ Radio 1 Extra|Radio|1|
202|RTÉ 2FM|Radio|1|
203|RTÉ Lyric FM|Radio|1|
204|RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta|Radio|1|
205|RTÉ Pulse|Radio|1|
206|RTÉ 2XM|Radio|1|
207|RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill|Radio|1|previously - RTÉ Choice
208|RTÉ Gold|Radio|1|
209|(no channel name/RTÉ Junior-RTÉ Chill audio)|Radio|1|previously - RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill
210-220*|(blank)|Radio|2|audio on 212 (Lyric)/213 (Raidió na Gaeltachta)
254|SSU|Data|1|
255|SSU|Data|2|

Multiplex 1 (2RN 1)

LCN

|

Channel

|

Resolution

|
02|RTÉ 2|HD - 1440 x 1088|
03|TV3|SD - 544x576|
04|TG4|SD - 544x576|
05|3e|SD - 544x576|
06|(no channel name/RTÉ News Now)|SD - 544x576|
18*|(no channel name/no testcard/tone) |SD - 544x576|previously - LCN08 RTÉ1 +1
19*|(no channel name/no testcard/tone)|SD - 544x576|
20*|(no channel name/no testcard/tone)|SD - 544x576|
21*|RTÉ News Now|SD - 704x576|previously - LCN07 RTÉ Junior, LCN17 Oireachtas TV test transmission
22*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD - 544x576|previously - LCN01/11 RTÉ1 SD
23-26*|(blank)||
32-42*|(blank)||
200|RTÉ Radio 1|Radio|
201|RTÉ Radio 1 Extra|Radio|
202|RTÉ 2FM|Radio|
203|RTÉ Lyric FM|Radio|
204|RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta|Radio|
205|RTÉ Pulse|Radio|
206|RTÉ 2XM|Radio
207|RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill|Radio|previously - RTÉ Choice
208|RTÉ Gold|Radio|
209|(no channel name/RTÉ Junior-RTÉ Chill audio)|Radio|previously - RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill

Multiplex 2 (2RN 2)

LCN

|

Channel

|

Resolution

|
01|RTÉ One|HD - 1440 x 1088|
07|RTÉ Junior**|SD - 544x576|
08|(no channel name/RTÉ One +1**)|SD - 544x576|
09*|(no channel name/testcard/Raidió na Gaeltachta audio)|SD - 544x576|
10*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD - 544x576|
11*|RTÉ One +1|SD - 704x576|
12*| (no channel name/testcard) |HD - 1440 x 1088|
13*|(no channel name/testcard/Lyric audio)|SD - 544x576|
14*|(no channel name/testcard)|HD - 1440 x 1088|TG4 subtitles and teletext previously
15*|(blank)||previously - Test transmission/RTÉ One +1
16*| (no channel name/testcard) |SD - 544x576
17*| (no channel name/testcard) |SD - 544x576
27-31*|(blank)||
43-50*|(blank)||
210-220*|(blank)|Radio|audio on 212 (Lyric)/213 (Raidió na Gaeltachta)

* Hidden on Saorview receivers but can be selected by entering the channel no. via the remote control
** RTÉ Junior 0700-1845 approx / RTÉ One +1 1900-0100/0200 approx. Timesharing

The Cush · 17-10-2014 2:24am

Paddy C wrote: »

Is the test of News Now on 21 perhaps because it could move there to keep it separate from the entertainment channels? I doubt it, seeing as Saorview is hardly ever going to be packed with channels to need categories, but it is an interesting thought.

StreetLight wrote: »

This could mean RTE1+1 is being bumped down to make way for three new services on 8, 9 and 10. Or, maybe it's being re-located to 11 to logically be the first number in the second block of 10. So, if there were to be an RTE2+1, it may appear on 12, TV3+1 on 13 and so on.

The likelihood of that, though, is another discussion!

I see that the link to the BAI's EPGs licensing page is dead (not that there was much there anyway). I wonder if there's a Saorview LCN Policy document on the way?

Could LCN 21 upwards be the news section?
Could LCN 22 be a placeholder for the Oireachtas TV channel if agreement is reached?

satelliteman20 · 17-10-2014 9:19am

i just checked my amiko after a full reboot and all sd is 544x576 except rte news now and rte one + 1 which still shows 704x576

Rick_ · 17-10-2014 10:01am

So, if they are reshuffling channels to make psuedo-categories, I was kinda right when I suggested earlier in the week that that was what they might be doing...!

So, UTV Ireland may be getting 6 then... If they are moving the news channel to 21 as part of a new 'category', why not move RTÉ Junior to 31 as the start of a kids section?

Oscarziggy · 17-10-2014 10:51am

I haven't got any sophisticated kit just a Sony TV .
This is what shows when I change channels.....
RTE ONE HD 1080/25Hz
RTE TWO HD 1080/25Hz
TV3 576/25Hz
TG4 576/25Hz
RTE News Now 576/25Hz
3e 576/25Hz
RTE ONE+1 off air until 7pm
RTE Junior 576/25Hz
Test Transmission 2rn Eireann card 576/25Hz
2RN Ath Cliath Ardghleine (red bar back and fore) 1080/25Hz
2rn Eireann card with music 576/25Hz
2rn card (white line back and fore) 1080/25Hz
2rn Eireann test card 576/25Hz
RTE NEWS NOW 576/25Hz

I can't see any difference in the picture quality between the 2 RTE NEWS NOW channels.

Just for information .
Regards

17-10-2014 12:12pm

Test channel 22 now saying test transmission after a rescan.

The Cush · 17-10-2014 12:33pm

Oscarziggy wrote: »

I haven't got any sophisticated kit just a Sony TV .

I can't see any difference in the picture quality between the 2 RTE NEWS NOW channels.

Same here, 2 Sony TVs (2008/2010 models).

The difference is subtle, but did notice a difference, confirmed when satelliteman20 posted the change of resolution.

Dare I say "should've gone to ..."

, sorry

Oscarziggy · 17-10-2014 2:28pm

The Cush wrote: »

Same here, 2 Sony TVs (2008/2010 models).

The difference is subtle, but did notice a difference, confirmed when satelliteman20 posted the change of resolution.

Dare I say "should've gone to ..." , sorry

Tried that

couldn't find the shop !!
Regards

Sam Russell · 20-10-2014 9:13am

I have a strange result of retuning my LG TV for Saorview.

When I retune the TV, (LG 42LD490 - non-Saorview) it starts the DTV numbering at 2 instead of 1 as before. Now it is a UK version of the TV (sourced in Ireland) that has no Country= option.

After much foostering, I think position 1 is taken by a data channel. Why can I not shift it? I hve tried factory reset, tuning manualy, tuning mux2 first, etc.

Also, could 2rn be setting up all these channels to do software upgrades over the air?

Edit: TV is 2011 model.

The Cush · 20-10-2014 10:25am

Any LG TV I've come across had a country select option including non-Saorview models sold in Ireland.

Is RTÉ2 at LCN02?
If you have RTÉ2 at LCN02 then the TV is correctly storing the channels.

If so where is RTÉ1/RTÉjr/RTÉ1+1 (Mux2 channels) stored?
If you're missing there channels from Mux2 you may have a signal/aerial issue.

Freeview only TVs without a country option would automatically store Saorview channels in the 800 range as required of the Freeview spec (out of region channels).

Have a look at my list above and if the Mux1 channels are stored in their correct locations with the Mux2 channels missing then back to a signal issue.

If your TV isn't Saorview approved then it won't ever receive an ota software upgrade via 2RN.

Is there any maintenance scheduled at your local transmitter where the power may be temporarily reduced - http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/169-1.html

Thurston? · 20-10-2014 1:23pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have a strange result of retuning my LG TV for Saorview.

When I retune the TV, (LG 42LD490 - non-Saorview) it starts the DTV numbering at 2 instead of 1 as before.

... I hve tried factory reset, tuning manualy, tuning mux2 first, etc.

Seen that before on a Saorview approved Technika (Tesco) receiver, although a factory reset cured it in that case.

Sam Russell · 20-10-2014 10:23pm

There is no option for country - it is UK only. The TV tunes the muxes either by automatic numbering - all channels in the 800s, or it puts them in the 1, 2, 3, etc. order that it finds them, and they can be moved around as you like.

Or at least that was the way it was before 2rn messed with the signal the other week and created 50 channels. What happens now is the channels are loaded starting with 2, 3, 4, etc. There is no 1 channel anymore.

I suspect that channel 1 is taken by a data channel in some way and it is not showing in the list. Also I get the impression that it is an OTA software download channel. It is carried on both mux1 and mux2, as it is the same whether I load mux1 first or mux2 first. Could someone look at the data and see if I am right?

I think I will cart the TV to a Freeview reception area and tune in BBC1 etc, then tune in Saorview, bring it home and do a manual retune for 30 and 33, then delete all the Freeview channels and see if that fixes it.

2rn are deffinitely playing silly buggers with the signal. They have managed to disable the series link for the non-saorview recorders, and they have buggered up the summer-time. Now they have buggered up the LCN for non-soarview sets.

Do they do it for fun, or what?

I am not happy.

The Cush · 20-10-2014 11:51pm

Had a look at the manual, a number of models from that 2010 range didn't have a country selection option, hadn't come across that previously. Where did you buy it in Ireland?

Did a manual scan on each frequency and the SSU data "channels" appear first in the list for each mux, that's been the case for a long time IIRC. Don't know what's changed now that it cannot be moved.

Unfortunately we're stuck with 2 different receiver specs for the 2 countries so basically it's tough luck for buying the wrong TV.

Sam Russell · 21-10-2014 7:14am

The Cush wrote: »

Had a look at the manual, a number of models from that 2010 range didn't have a country selection option, hadn't come across that previously. Where did you buy it in Ireland?

Did a manual scan on each frequency and the SSU data "channels" appear first in the list for each mux, that's been the case for a long time IIRC. Don't know what's changed now that it cannot be moved.

Unfortunately we're stuck with 2 different receiver specs for the 2 countries so basically it's tough luck for buying the wrong TV.

I know I bought the wrong TV, but this is a recent change. I do not rescan every week, or even very often, but I did do a rescan when OTV was on ch 17. I beleive that this has occured since they put all those extra channels on.

I have tried contacting LG, but they say to get onto Saorview first - effectively 'Tough'. They say (unbeleivably) that they do not have a European version of that chassis so there is no alternative firmware. They pointed me to the latest software version which I will update i it is different.

Oh, well, I will tried Saoview, but they 'had no-one available to take my query'.

Hotblack Desiato · 21-10-2014 9:23am

You could go to the retailer for satisfaction under the Sale of Goods Act, TV is not fit for its intended purpose and should not have been sold in this country.

Machinehead · 21-10-2014 11:05am

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is no option for country - it is UK only. The TV tunes the muxes either by automatic numbering - all channels in the 800s, or it puts them in the 1, 2, 3, etc. order that it finds them, and they can be moved around as you like.

Or at least that was the way it was before 2rn messed with the signal the other week and created 50 channels. What happens now is the channels are loaded starting with 2, 3, 4, etc. There is no 1 channel anymore.

I suspect that channel 1 is taken by a data channel in some way and it is not showing in the list. Also I get the impression that it is an OTA software download channel. It is carried on both mux1 and mux2, as it is the same whether I load mux1 first or mux2 first. Could someone look at the data and see if I am right?

I think I will cart the TV to a Freeview reception area and tune in BBC1 etc, then tune in Saorview, bring it home and do a manual retune for 30 and 33, then delete all the Freeview channels and see if that fixes it.

2rn are deffinitely playing silly buggers with the signal. They have managed to disable the series link for the non-saorview recorders, and they have buggered up the summer-time. Now they have buggered up the LCN for non-soarview sets.

Do they do it for fun, or what?

I am not happy.

Did a rescan on a Saorview approved walker combo stb & the channel listing got messed up also. News Now on LCN 21 & RTÉ+1 on LCN 11 (with labels) remain hidden. I still have the original LCN's on 6 & 8 but no channel ID labels. The problems don't only apply to non Saorview approved STB's.

The Cush · 21-10-2014 12:23pm

Machinehead wrote: »

Did a rescan on a Saorview approved walker combo stb & the channel listing got messed up also. News Now on LCN 21 & RTÉ+1 on LCN 11 (with labels) remain hidden. I still have the original LCN's on 6 & 8 but no channel ID labels. The problems don't only apply to non Saorview approved STB's.

The rearrangement of the epg can't be that far away as they've removed the channel names from LCN 6 and 8, looks a bit unprofessional though as they are the channels viewers use.

Sam Russell · 21-10-2014 12:30pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You could go to the retailer for satisfaction under the Sale of Goods Act, TV is not fit for its intended purpose and should not have been sold in this country.

I don't think so.

1. The TV was sold before Saorview launched.

2. The TV works OK, just a PITA that LCN is out by one.

3. The other TVs suffered a far worse fate than mine. Imagine if I had bought a Pana!

Machinehead · 21-10-2014 12:56pm

The Cush wrote: »

The rearrangement of the epg can't be that far away as they've removed the channel names from LCN 6 and 8, looks a bit unprofessional though as they are the channels viewers use.

Totally agree. Freesat did a bit of a reshuffle recently, they didn't leave any LCN's blank in the process. Could the new Saorview LCN's be permanent moves leaving LCN's 6 & 8 open for impending channel launches?

The Cush · 21-10-2014 2:04pm

Machinehead wrote: »

Could the new Saorview LCN's be permanent moves leaving LCN's 6 & 8 open for impending channel launches?

That's what we're speculating here, nothing official.

TAFKAlawhec · 21-10-2014 3:54pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Or at least that was the way it was before 2rn messed with the signal the other week and created 50 channels. What happens now is the channels are loaded starting with 2, 3, 4, etc. There is no 1 channel anymore.

I suspect that channel 1 is taken by a data channel in some way and it is not showing in the list. Also I get the impression that it is an OTA software download channel. It is carried on both mux1 and mux2, as it is the same whether I load mux1 first or mux2 first. Could someone look at the data and see if I am right?

In my experience with Freeview branded TVs which are set to "UK" and can receive Saorview miltuplexes, Saorview channels are stored starting from 800. The first channel at 800 is the SSU channel, which is indeed a data channel aimed at OTA receiver firmware downloads. I haven't the ability to check it right now, but I suspect the ordering of services in these cases follows the service ID in the NIT of the multiplex, with the SSU channel having the lowest SID number. I'm going to take an educated guess that is happening here with the SSU channel at LCN place 1.

Oscarziggy · 21-10-2014 6:24pm

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Saorview channels are stored starting from 800. The first channel at 800 is the SSU channel, which is indeed a data channel aimed at OTA receiver firmware downloads..

On my Sony TV ,yes 800 is the SSU channel and the rest are stored above that with RTE1 HD at 801.
The Sony has the ability in the menu system to shift any channel to wherever you want it so all my RTEs and Radio are stored from 801 upwards.
The UK Freeview ones are where the rescan puts them so above that at 800 is a good place to start.
It's a shame the OP hasn't this option on his TV.
Regards

Sam Russell · 21-10-2014 10:11pm

Oscarziggy wrote: »

On my Sony TV ,yes 800 is the SSU channel and the rest are stored above that with RTE1 HD at 801.
The Sony has the ability in the menu system to shift any channel to wherever you want it so all my RTEs and Radio are stored from 801 upwards.
The UK Freeview ones are where the rescan puts them so above that at 800 is a good place to start.
It's a shame the OP hasn't this option on his TV.
Regards

I came to that conclusion myself. LG do not want to know. Saorview do not want to know. And I don't know.

It is a recent change - probably since they started messing about with all these extra fake channels. I wish they would publish what they are doing, and also what they are thinking of doing. In the past, they suddenly killed the Panas by an unanounced change. They suddenly killed the PVRs that were not Saorview approved and that actually worked - again with an unanounced change. They 'fixed' the summer time problem - that is they killed it for sets that expected the GB ident on the time.

Now, I have three TVs in my house, the LG purchased before Saorview was launched, so it could not be 'Saorview Approved' since that did not exist, but only 3 years old. I have a second TV that is Freesat/Freeview or FTA-Sat/Saorview, and so is set for UK - I have not tried retuning it as it is not user friendly for the aerial side. The third one is actually Saorview approved and used that way. Why do they mess around - could they not go and get a job with Irish Water?

TAFKAlawhec · 23-10-2014 8:45pm

To be fair, I wouldn't expect Freeview in the UK to give any guidance or support to receivers that haven't passed the Freeview/Plus/HD approval test themselves - same with Freesat.

Sam Russell · 23-10-2014 9:22pm

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

To be fair, I wouldn't expect Freeview in the UK to give any guidance or support to receivers that haven't passed the Freeview/Plus/HD approval test themselves - same with Freesat.

What has Freeview got to do with it? We are talking about Mux2 (and mux1) and 2rn mucking about with the signal and having an effect on TVs that used to work perfectly.

It is 2rn that is at fault here.

doney84 · 23-10-2014 9:40pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

What has Freeview got to do with it? We are talking about Mux2 (and mux1) and 2rn mucking about with the signal and having an effect on TVs that used to work perfectly.

It is 2rn that is at fault here.

I have some non saorview approved equipment myself so I understand your frustrations ... but to be fair to 2RN the message from the very start was to only purchase approved saorview equipment. One of the pitfalls of being an early adopter I guess

Mux 2 Launched / Saorview Rescan Required

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