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More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

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Comments

  • #302
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Godge wrote: »
    So all of those people who were kneecapped, shot and expelled from the North by SF/IRA are only "alleged" to have been drug dealers, abusers, burglars, car thieves and rapists?

    Can they sue Uncle Joe's estate, and the two Martins and Dessie as acknowledged members of the IRA for damage to their reputation and for compensation?

    If the IRA administered justice in Northern Ireland as Gerry Adams claimed - "In many republican areas the community put pressure on the IRA - which sprang from and was sustained by the community - to fill this policing vacuum." "However, the IRA often punished petty criminals, car thieves, burglars and drug dealers" - why can't they name who they punished and why they were punished??

    Given "the high standards and decency of the vast majority of IRA volunteers", this should be possible as the high standards and decency would mean they would be willing to come forward. Or maybe the standards and decency aren't so high after all?

    Could you for once answer the question you where asked...'Should GA start publicly naming people alleged to be rapists and abusers?'


    p.s. he has already said that it was wrong that the IRA dealt with this stuff and outlined the very real reasons why it happened like it did. Maria Cahill said on the Spotlight programme that she herself did NOT recognise the RUC's right to police.
    You must also remember that the RUC was disbanded in disgrace, the lack of proper policing was just another of the tragedies of a failed sectarian state.


  • #303
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    that couldnt be further from the truth. Really, whats the point if people are just going to make stuff up?
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Sinn Fein north and south are two different parties, often with opposing views to each other, with a completely different background. They might as well be two different political parties.


  • #304
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Sinn Fein north and south are two different parties, often with opposing views to each other, with a completely different background. They might as well be two different political parties.

    That is just getting into the realms of ridiculousness.


  • #305
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    So, you DO think the IRA - an illegal organisation - kept records of the people they got rid of. I wouldnt agree. basically because its a very silly thing for an illegal organisation - who's members many times didnt even know each other - to do. decency has nothing to do with keeping records btw. thats just being silly.
    Godge wrote: »
    So they administered kneecapping, punishment beatings, shootings and expelling without keeping the minimum record? I am not surprised by that but that doesn't accord with a statement that lauds "the high standards and decency of the vast majority of IRA volunteers".

    Either there was high standards and decency which means records were kept and there are decent people who can come forward with those record. Or else there was low standards and a lack of decency and people were beaten, shot and expelled for little evidence or reason. SF/IRA can't have it both ways.


  • #306
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Without knowing much, I'd say someone gave Maria a few bob to open her mouth. She was ill advised. Sorry state of affairs the whole thing.


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  • #307
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Could you for once answer the question you where asked...'Should GA start publicly naming people alleged to be rapists and abusers?'


    p.s. he has already said that it was wrong that the IRA dealt with this stuff and outlined the very real reasons why it happened like it did. Maria Cahill said on the Spotlight programme that she herself did NOT recognise the RUC's right to police.
    You must also remember that the RUC was disbanded in disgrace, the lack of proper policing was just another of the tragedies of a failed sectarian state.


    Were they alleged to be rapists and abusers or did the SF/IRA system of justice find them guilty of being rapists and abusers in accordance with the so-called high standards and decency of IRA members?

    I can't answer your question until I know which category they fall into.

    I can put it another way though. If it is accepted that SF/IRA ran around the North terrorising, controlling and intimidating the local Catholic population while shooting, beating, kneecapping and expelling rapists and abusers merely on allegations, then it is more difficult to name them. But that does not tally with what he and others have said happened so yes, he should name them if they were subject to high standards and decency of justice.

    He could also name them under privilege in the Dail :).


  • #308
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    maccored wrote: »
    that couldnt be further from the truth. Really, whats the point if people are just going to make stuff up?
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That is just getting into the realms of ridiculousness.


    What did I make up ?


  • #309
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Without knowing much, I'd say someone gave Maria a few bob to open her mouth. She was ill advised. Sorry state of affairs the whole thing.

    The only bit of your post that rings true is that you don't know much about the story.


  • #310
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,695 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    maccored wrote: »
    Do you, hand on heart, think the IRA kept logs and records or something?

    That is the EXACT same excuse that the church used to justify the covering up of child sex abuse and for moving abusers to different locations, allowing them to abuse children again. That line of defence did not hold up with the Irish public and it won't for SF/IRA either.

    Eitherway even if there is no documentary evidence, which is contested by Cahill, it does not matter. Just ask the prople that sat on the internal enquiries that your leader has now admitted to having taken place. Those members have been named by Cahill and some still occupy very senior positions in SF/IRA. This happened in the 2000's, not 1970's.


  • #311
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    that SF in the north and south are virtually two different parties. they arent.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    What did I make up ?


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  • #312
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    thats not an excuse - its a question. the church were an illegal organisation then were they?
    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    That is the EXACT same excuse that the church used to justify the covering up of child sex abuse and for moving abusers to different locations, allowing them to abuse children again. That line of defence dos not he up with the Irish public and it won't for SF/IRA either.

    Eitherway even if there is no documentary evidence, which is contested by Cahill, it does not matter. Just ask the prople that saw on the internal enquiries that your leader has now admitted to having existed. Those members have been named by Cahill and some still occupy very senior positions in SF/IRA. This happened in the 2000's, not 1970's.


  • #313
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Godge wrote: »
    Either there was high standards and decency which means records were kept and there are decent people who can come forward with those record.

    The provos should have been keeping records of their activities? With that you drift off into the magical land of self righteous makebelieve

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBdGOrcUEg8


  • #314
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    maccored wrote: »
    that SF in the north and south are virtually two different parties. they arent.

    So they have a unified set of policies, north and south ?


  • #315
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    maccored wrote: »
    So, you DO think the IRA - an illegal organisation - kept records of the people they got rid of. I wouldnt agree. basically because its a very silly thing for an illegal organisation - who's members many times didnt even know each other - to do. decency has nothing to do with keeping records btw. thats just being silly.


    Mairia Cahill has said that there is a recording in existence of her case. I think she repeats this in this interview.

    http://www.newstalk.com/Mairia-Cahill-on-Gerry-Adams:-I-am-calling-for-him-to-do-the-decent-thing-and-step-down

    So yes, I do think the IRA kept records. They probably existed up until last week when this story broke.


  • #316
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    two different places, but yes, overall they have the same outlook in both places.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    So they have a unified set of policies, north and south ?


  • #317
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Bambi wrote: »
    The provos should have been keeping records of their activities? With that you drift off into the magical land of self righteous makebelieve


    Well, I know you don't believe Ms. Cahill was a victim, so your response shouldn't surprise but she has said herself there were recordings made of her case and she believes they still exist.


  • #318
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    of her interview with adams? And yet she isnt using that to prove her case about her discussion with him? doesnt that sound strange to you?
    Godge wrote: »
    Mairia Cahill has said that there is a recording in existence of her case. I think she repeats this in this interview.

    http://www.newstalk.com/Mairia-Cahill-on-Gerry-Adams:-I-am-calling-for-him-to-do-the-decent-thing-and-step-down

    So yes, I do think the IRA kept records. They probably existed up until last week when this story broke.


  • #319
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Godge wrote: »
    The only bit of your post that rings true is that you don't know much about the story.

    I must be honest - I know nothing about it. I'm more interested in seeing will it impact on SF even in the short term.


  • #320
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    maccored wrote: »
    two different places, but yes, overall they have the same outlook in both places.

    Property taxes, water charges, and broader budget cuts to name but 3. They have a different approach to both depending on what side of the border they're on.


  • #321
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nope. they fought against property taxes and water charges. London looks after those things, not stormont.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Property taxes, water charges, and broader budget cuts to name but 3. They have a different approach to both depending on what side of the border they're on.


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  • #322
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Maybe we should all take a step back from turning this into a crass political football and remember that at the root of this is a female who was sexually abused.

    Highlighting sexual abuse is always to be commended but turning it into a political football to score political points is cheap and disgusting.

    Will Enda Kenny make time is his diary for ALL victims of sexual abuse now or will he onky do it when there's political capital to be made?


  • #323
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    maccored wrote: »
    Nope. they fought against property taxes and water charges. London looks after those things, not stormont.

    Property taxes are controlled by the local councils up there aren't they ?


  • #324
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26394 - fyi
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Property taxes, water charges, and broader budget cuts to name but 3. They have a different approach to both depending on what side of the border they're on.


  • #325
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    again incorrect - councils can only set the rate. t hey have no power over if there IS a charge or not.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Property taxes are controlled by the local councils up there aren't they ?


  • #326
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    maccored wrote: »
    again incorrect - councils can only set the rate. t hey have no power over if there IS a charge or not.

    The rate is the most relevant part of the property tax, a rate which they increase in many of their councils, granted not all.


  • #327
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    thats up to the council, not SF. You know, democracy and all that.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    The rate is the most relevant part of the property tax, a rate which they increase.


  • #328
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Godge wrote: »
    Were they alleged to be rapists and abusers or did the SF/IRA system of justice find them guilty of being rapists and abusers in accordance with the so-called high standards and decency of IRA members?

    I can't answer your question until I know which category they fall into.

    I can put it another way though. If it is accepted that SF/IRA ran around the North terrorising, controlling and intimidating the local Catholic population while shooting, beating, kneecapping and expelling rapists and abusers merely on allegations, then it is more difficult to name them. But that does not tally with what he and others have said happened so yes, he should name them if they were subject to high standards and decency of justice.

    He could also name them under privilege in the Dail :).

    Adams said it was wrong and that the IRA sometimes made mistakes, so we don't know if they where guilty.
    Do you think it would be responsible for Adams to now name them in public or do you think that having admitted they made mistakes that the PROPER thing to do for everybody involved is to go to the proper authorities?
    Godge wrote: »
    Mairia Cahill has said that there is a recording in existence of her case. I think she repeats this in this interview.

    http://www.newstalk.com/Mairia-Cahill-on-Gerry-Adams:-I-am-calling-for-him-to-do-the-decent-thing-and-step-down

    So yes, I do think the IRA kept records. They probably existed up until last week when this story broke.

    Godge will you take a few hours off the internet and review this story and get your facts about it straight.
    She was referring to tapes made by the British who allegedly bugged IRA offices.
    Just shows you how much anti SF people are taking onboard about the actual story.
    The Independent obviously knows it's target readership well.


  • #329
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    maccored wrote: »
    of her interview with adams? And yet she isnt using that to prove her case about her discussion with him? doesnt that sound strange to you?


    You obviously haven't listened very carefully. She didn't record the interview but she says the IRA recorded it.

    It does sound strange that those with the recording - SF/IRA - haven't released the recording to back the words of the Dear Leader.


  • #330
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    maccored wrote: »
    thats up to the council, not SF. You know, democracy and all that.

    Seriously though, who controls many of the councils, democratically elected to do so and all that ?


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  • #331
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Godge wrote: »
    Well, I know you don't believe Ms. Cahill was a victim, so your response shouldn't surprise but she has said herself there were recordings made of her case and she believes they still exist.

    I said I don't believe her? I neither believe or disbelieve her, as no proof has been presented. I don't take peoples word at face value in these matters


    You on the other hand, well..you want to believe regardless, why would that be? :confused:

    Anywhoo, your original statement had nothing to do with the cahill case, you thought the provos should have been keeping records of who they punished, in case they ever needed to be checked at some point in the future, which is a patently ludicrous idea.


This discussion has been closed.
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