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Tánaiste Moany Burton: IW protesters 'seem to have extremely expensive phones'

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    #362
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    GarIT wrote: »
    I don't get your point?

    Everyone has 'heard' some cliché about welfare recipients.


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    #363
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,799 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Everyone has 'heard' some cliché about welfare recipients.

    That does not mean none of them are actually true though


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    #364
    ennis81
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭ennis81


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ennis81 wrote: »

    Isn't it a bit silly having them both on the same day?



    I didn't organise them!!


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    #365
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    VinLieger wrote: »
    That does not mean none of them are actually true though

    Obviously, but at a guess, I'd say the folk who're 'jetting off' owning multiple cars, and heading to Belfast to buy iPhones on launch day would be most definitely in the minority.


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    #366
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I wonder which one of the 3 family cars they travelled up in, and if it was before or after their twice annual holiday to Lanzarote?
    I got flights to Lanzarote in November for about E100 return, of course they can afford to go...


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    #367
    ennis81
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭ennis81


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Obviously, but at a guess, I'd say the folk who're 'jetting off' owning multiple cars, and heading to Belfast to buy iPhones on launch day would be most definitely in the minority.


    Absolutely anyone who is able to afford to go on holidays or purchase Iphones on the dole has to be either a) working somewhere for cash or b) involved in some form of illegal activity, the majority of people on social welfare are SKINT constantly especially families


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    #368
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    It is quite possible that we have witnessed Ms. Burton's "Pee Flynn" moment. I do hope so. Hubris gets a lot of them in the finish, why not this vile and insincere termagant of a yoke. :pac:


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    #369
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    GarIT wrote: »
    While she wasn't correct to assume all protesters are unemployed I agree with her sentiment. It is sickening hearing about a group of 5 people I know on the dole going up to Belfast to buy the new iPhone on launch day, when an iPhone is something I don't think I'll ever be able to afford.

    On the dole you should get food, shelter, light, heat and clothing, everything else is a luxury that only employed people should be able to buy.
    Now this is true begrudgery - looking down on the unemployed so much, that you think they should just subsist, just because you're struggling.


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    #370
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    VinLieger wrote: »
    That does not mean none of them are actually true though
    Except Every. Single. Time. such an anecdote is brought up, it is used to bash all of the unemployed by association, which is both highly ignorant and fallacious/untrue.


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    #371
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Now this is true begrudgery - looking down on the unemployed so much, that you think they should just subsist, just because you're struggling.

    This is precisely it. The matter of what unemployed people should and should not be able to afford is a completely different tin a' horse-meat. What we have here is the leader of the Labour Party, worthy spiritual successor to the likes of Keir Hardie and Big Jim Larkin, standing up in the Dáil and offering the view that the Hoi-Polloi aren't acting and looking "poor" enough, the ungrateful wretches. Away unto Ye Bridge of Jobbes wih ye, urchins!! :pac:


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    #372
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Now this is true begrudgery - looking down on the unemployed so much, that you think they should just subsist, just because you're struggling.

    If you're not earning why should you be given free stuff from anybody. Humanity dictates that we help them survive, but they shouldn't have access to the same rewards that 40 hours of work each week brings.


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    #373
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    GarIT wrote: »

    On the dole you should get food, shelter, light, heat and clothing, everything else is a luxury that only employed people should be able to buy.

    Whoa, you're confusing the dole and prison, right?


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    #374
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    GarIT wrote: »
    If you're not earning why should you be given free stuff from anybody. Humanity dictates that we help them survive, but they shouldn't have access to the same rewards that 40 hours of work each week brings.

    Damn straight. In fact, they should all be given the Ebola as well. And that'll fcukan learn 'em. :mad:


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    #375
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    GarIT wrote: »
    If you're not earning why should you be given free stuff from anybody. Humanity dictates that we help them survive, but they shouldn't have access to the same rewards that 40 hours of work each week brings.
    Everyone deserves a decent quality of life where their physical/emotional/mental health isn't damaged by being forced to live in subsistence, or by having their spending dictated to them (and thus their freedom curtailed), to the point that they are not allowed to enjoy any luxuries in life.

    Humanity dictates that you have to justify why people should not be allowed to life free from harm like that, with a decent quality of life - and a begrudging attitude falls far short of providing that justification.


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    #376
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,770 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    GarIT wrote: »
    If you're not earning why should you be given free stuff from anybody. Humanity dictates that we help them survive, but they shouldn't have access to the same rewards that 40 hours of work each week brings.

    So if I lose my job in the morning, should I hand in everything I worked hard for to get when I go sign on as well?

    While I agree with you that the "lifers" who have neither worked nor have any interest in doing so should get a minimum, that's a mighty big brush you're tarring with there!


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    #377
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,799 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Damn straight. In fact, they should all be given the Ebola as well. And that'll fcukan learn 'em. :mad:

    Nice straw man.

    Look the simple fact is there is deffinitely a sense of entitlement among a certain class of people on the dole. I'm not saying everyone on the dole suffers from this but there are people who do. Yes some people then use this to tar everyone on the dole with the same brush but it's no different to people who go around claiming that "business owners" and anyone on the higher tax rate is rolling in it and "rich" and should be taxed to the hilt to pay for everything as it's all their fault......


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    #378
    Albertofrog
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Albertofrog


    Un Croissant wrote: »
    Note I said in this example as you seemed to be running with that idea when answering Joe Swanson about 'is there dole not enough'

    Seemed to.
    Right. So you're just either making things up or putting your own interpretation on my words


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    #379
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Nice straw man.

    Look the simple fact is there is deffinitely a sense of entitlement among a certain class of people on the dole. I'm not saying everyone on the dole suffers from this but there are people who do. Yes some people then use this to tar everyone on the dole with the same brush but it's no different to people who go around claiming that "business owners" and anyone on the higher tax rate is rolling in it and "rich" and should be taxed to the hilt to pay for everything as it's all their fault......

    I couldn't agree more. But what you originally said smacked of pulling the ladder up after you and fcuk everyone else. And that wasn't a "strawman", that was straightforward sarcasm! :D


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    #380
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    So if I lose my job in the morning, should I hand in everything I worked hard for to get when I go sign on as well?

    Clearly not. But you should be able to go and buy new luxuries. If you were worried about loosing your job you should have been saving accordingly for that rather than relying on the state to do that for you.

    I don't see how people think they are entitled to anything, this luxuries have to be created, people have to work to make them, and everyone should have to work if they wish to receive them.

    There should possibly be a grace period, but say after 12 months of unemployment if you are still unemployed and not in education you shouldn't get any more than the essentials. I also support the idea's of scrapping the dole and the government guaranteeing everyone a job on €200 per week, if you want more you need to go and get yourself a better job.

    Social welfare payments are also disproportionate, admittedly some families are struggling, but single people on the dole are stinking rich.


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    #381
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    Your economic or social background shouldn't dictate wheter you can protest or not, people are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. If people are on social welfare and don't protest it's perceived they have it so good they don't need to protest or that they are lazy. If they do protest it is perceived that they should get a job. The greatest % of people that are affected by austerity are the people at the bottom of our economy. They feel the burden of taxes the most. Also if you are to look at them having iphones (which is a nonsense coming from our Tanaiste) they purchased them pre-austerity so owned them before extra taxes were introduced. Water charges is exactly this another tax.


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    #382
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    water charges are a utility bill. it will no longer be totally covered by the tax system.


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    #383
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    GarIT wrote: »
    Clearly not. But you should be able to go and buy new luxuries. If you were worried about loosing your job you should have been saving accordingly for that rather than relying on the state to do that for you.

    I don't see how people think they are entitled to anything, this luxuries have to be created, people have to work to make them, and everyone should have to work if they wish to receive them.


    Saving accordingly ??????? Both of us in our house working and I can't save a cent, Christ what euthopia are you living in ?????


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    #384
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Everyone deserves a decent quality of life where their physical/emotional/mental health isn't damaged by being forced to live in subsistence, or by having their spending dictated to them (and thus their freedom curtailed), to the point that they are not allowed to enjoy any luxuries in life.
    the lifers and all of the associated costs, house, medical card, god knows what allowances is impacting on the quality of life of the people paying for it! What they deserve is a decent education system and let them take advantage of it and if not, tough luck...
    Everyone deserves a decent quality of life where their physical/emotional/mental health isn't damaged by being forced to live in subsistence, or by having their spending dictated to them (and thus their freedom curtailed), to the point that they are not allowed to enjoy any luxuries in life.

    even the people who earned very modest income, paying a fortune in tax, who borrowed 400-500k during the boom to get a house? Who get nothing in return for their contributions and are living pay check to pay check or have had to cut everything down to the bone?


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    #385
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    crusher000 wrote: »
    Saving accordingly ??????? Both of us in our house working and I can't save a cent, Christ what euthopia are you living in ?????

    If I can live on €250 a month I don't see why anyone else cant either. (Excluding rent, but we do have rent allowance so that's covered)


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    #386
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saying that single people on the file are rice is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Most unemployed people get €188 a week and out of that all bills and essentials have to be paid. Rent in this country is ridiculously high so you can end up with 50 or 60% if your weekly payment going on that. Then you have electricity which could be €10-€15 a week, food €30 a week and all other expenses. Most people don't have more than a few euro left over when everything is paid and dread any unexpected expenses.


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    #387
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Saying that single people on the file are rice is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Most unemployed people get €188 a week and out of that all bills and essentials have to be paid. Rent in this country is ridiculously high so you can end up with 50 or 60% if your weekly payment going on that. Then you have electricity which could be €10-€15 a week, food €30 a week and all other expenses. Most people don't have more than a few euro left over when everything is paid and dread any unexpected expenses.

    There are plenty of places for €50 or less per week. The same group of entitled people seem to think that house shares and houses not in Dublin don't exist.


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    #388
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Such glib comentariat from people that expense the phone calls that they make from the back of their chaufeur driven Merc is nothing more than a PR own goal that only serves to underline how arrogant and out of touch this government is.


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    #389
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    GarIT wrote: »
    If I can live on €250 a month I don't see why anyone else cant either. (Excluding rent, but we do have rent allowance so that's covered)

    Now you are aware that not everybody on social welfare gets rent allowance don't you? In fact I'd wager that a good few see their SW payments disappear on things like mortgages and whatnot.

    Fair enough once the rent/mortgage is paid for then €250 a month to take care of the other bills and food is pretty good going but you are making quite a poor argument by suggesting that €250 a month is fine to live on once you discount those pesky things like rent or mortgage...


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    #390
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    crusher000 wrote: »
    Your economic or social background shouldn't dictate wheter you can protest or not

    Why shouldn't it? I'd say it should why is your argument better than mine? Any reasoning?

    I actually think that people not currently paying PAYE shouldn't have a vote on how the country is run.


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    #391
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Saying that single people on the file are rice is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Most unemployed people get €188 a week and out of that all bills and essentials have to be paid. Rent in this country is ridiculously high so you can end up with 50 or 60% if your weekly payment going on that. Then you have electricity which could be €10-€15 a week, food €30 a week and all other expenses. Most people don't have more than a few euro left over when everything is paid and dread any unexpected expenses.

    this is true of the uk and germany etc, so how come the rates here are so much higher? if anyone tries telling me that the cost of living on the essentials here is amywhere near twice that of either of the aforementioned countries, i.e. shopping in aldi and lidl, primark and utilities, dont even bother!

    But its ridiculous in the first instance that what you pay in, isnt in some way linked to what you get out of the system, should you need it...


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