more irish water nonsense

steveone · 29-08-2014 1:02am #1

Is anyone else completely stumped with this water thing? I really don't know what to do. Its like i want to pay it just for peace and quiet but i am sickened to the pit of my gut by the whole setup- i know its rotten to the core. Bills for the sake of it and jackboot P.R. Pay 'x' amount or pay '2x' just because...all to pay banks / bondholders or whatever.(if its not given to them directly its filling a gap left by monies given). I really am thinking of taking my chances with the dribbling tap, no washing machine, back to washing at the sink with a kettle of water. Madness it is.

Hotfail.com · 29-08-2014 1:35am

I'm usually not of "the damn gubberment!" disposition, but Irish Water seems like an absolute joke.

Mint Aero · 29-08-2014 1:37am

Well at least the streets are litter free, the parks beautifully landscaped, the potholes filled in etc all thanks to the property tax

This can only be a good thing. I envisage, clean drinking water for all! Except Galway

It was a bit shaky for the rest of the country there for a while. But thankfully our government swooped in to make sure those pesky evil septic tanks didn't kill our nations babies for the future export market.

Cows still pooping everywhere though.

policarp · 29-08-2014 1:55am

steveone wrote: »

Is anyone else completely stumped with this water thing?
.

It's just another stealth tax.

emo72 · 29-08-2014 1:58am

Molotov cocktails ready to fire?

Cookie_Monster · 29-08-2014 2:05am

policarp wrote: »

It's just another stealth tax.

I'm pro water rates and always have been. But, having seen how this has progressed from the initial outline to what's currently in place I have to agree. It's hard to see how it's anything other than a jobs for the boys club and an excessive, politicised tax grab.

whatsthetime · 29-08-2014 2:09am

Total farce. Just another means of putting a public service into capitalist hands.

Hotfail.com · 29-08-2014 2:10am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm pro water rates and always have been. But, having seen how this has progressed from the initial outline to what's currently in place I have to agree. It's hard to see how it's anything other than a jobs for the boys club and an excessive, politicised tax grab.

Apparently (I haven't seen any definitive proof, I'd appreciate some if anyone has any though) water rates have always existed here just that they were raised through general taxation instead of a specific "charge".

Is Irish Water being set up to cover the rest of the water cost (presuming enough money isn't being raised already) or just as another way of increasing revenue?

whatsthetime · 29-08-2014 2:11am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm pro water rates and always have been. But, having seen how this has progressed from the initial outline to what's currently in place I have to agree. It's hard to see how it's anything other than a jobs for the boys club and an excessive, politicised tax grab.

Nothing wrong with water charges but they were already being paid through general taxation. And if they were not then the local councils could have been allowed charge.

Cookie_Monster · 29-08-2014 2:17am

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Apparently (I haven't seen any definitive proof, I'd appreciate some if anyone has any though) water rates have always existed here just that they were raised through general taxation instead of a specific "charge".

no, there used to be rates paid by households that covered them until FF abolished them to buy an election. since then they've been part paid by tax but mostly by borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#The_first_abolition_of_domestic_water_charges

policarp · 29-08-2014 2:44am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, there used to be rates paid by households that covered them until FF abolished them to buy an election. since then they've been part paid by tax but mostly by borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#The_first_abolition_of_domestic_water_charges

One of the biggest mistakes ever made was to abolish household rates. . .IMO.
It was paid to the local authority and was used for bin collection, water, sewage, street cleaning, street lighting, libraries, parks and gardens and many more services.

Phoebas · 29-08-2014 6:40am

Isn't there already a bunch of threads on this topic?

Banjo String · 29-08-2014 7:15am

As with everything else in life, be wary of the small print.

The application forms for your (not great, when you consider we've around the highest water charges in europe) 'free' allowance, is actually a contract, in which you agree to becoming a customer of Irish Waters, and give them permission to start charging you for a utility you're already paying for through income tax, vat etc.

IrishWater are promoting these forms as if they are applications for the free allowances – but in reality the form is really a contract to agree to be a customer of Irish Water and to set up a customer account with them.

So why aren't Irish Water calling the 'application pack' a contract, if that's what it actually Is, what are they worried about

On the forms it states “ It is an offence under the Water Services Act, 2007 (as amended) to knowingly provide false or misleading information in this form and a person who does so is liable to a fine on summary conviction. By completing and returning this form, I declare that to the best of my knowledge all of the information provided is true and accurate. If I have confirmed that I am connected to the public water main and/or the public sewer then I declare that I am a customer of Irish Water, otherwise I am declaring that I am not a customer of Irish Water . Where I have declared I am a customer of Irish Water, I am confirming I have the authority to open an account at the premises and that I am liable for water charges at the premises . I confirm that I will advise Irish Water if there is any material change to the information provided in this form ”

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/category/irish-water

What happens if you refuse to engage with them, if you refuse to sign a contract, what powers have they to charge you, and if your unmetered, how will they reduce your pressure?

I don't no how a company you're not a customer of can demand payment from you for their services you never requested.

Phoebas · 29-08-2014 7:30am

^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

kneemos · 29-08-2014 7:34am

Should outsource it to a British company,bound to have spare capacity for a million or two households.

Jonblack · 29-08-2014 7:36am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, there used to be rates paid by households that covered them until FF abolished them to buy an election.

The vat rate was increased to cover the rates. The car tax was also cut and fuel duty increased. Two good short term election winners.

Tail Docker · 29-08-2014 7:40am

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

err, no, sounds like a Private company wants people to sign a contract. What if people don't want to?

L1011 · 29-08-2014 7:43am

Tail Docker wrote: »

err, no, sounds like a Private company wants people to sign a contract. What if people don't want to?

What private company?

Phoebas · 29-08-2014 7:47am

Tail Docker wrote: »

What if people don't want to?

They can stop using the IW water and waste water services.

Banjo String · 29-08-2014 7:51am

Phoebas wrote: »

Isn't there already a bunch of threads on this topic?

Oh look, more negative attention.

Get the debate shut down lads, quick.

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

What bit? All I did was copy and paste an extract from the actual dubiously formed contract information pack. Then asked what could happen homes not metered if they refuse to sign, and therefore are not customers of Irish Water?

How will they be disconnected, or as that's not permitted, reduced?

How come if you question a government policy, or Irish Water gave charge around here, you're either a 'Shinnerbot' or spouting 'freeman nonsense'

Banjo String · 29-08-2014 7:52am

MYOB wrote: »

What private company?

Irish Water.

They're a for profit organisation aren't they?

same ol sh1te · 29-08-2014 7:58am

I have no problem paying for water, but it better be spring quality coming out my tap not the sh1te we have at the moment, as it is we can't drink it and buy 10l a week.

Tail Docker · 29-08-2014 7:59am

MYOB wrote: »

What private company?

So it's not a private company? Cool. No need to sign a contract so. Thanks for that.

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-08-2014 8:00am

Banjo String wrote: »

Oh look, more negative attention.

Get the debate shut down lads, quick.

What bit? All I did was copy and paste an extract from the actual dubiously formed contract information pack. Then asked what could happen homes not metered if they refuse to sign, and therefore are not customers of Irish Water?

How will they be disconnected, or as that's not permitted, reduced?

How come if you question a government policy, or Irish Water gave charge around here, you're either a 'Shinnerbot' or spouting 'freeman nonsense'

Pointing out that there is already a thread on this topic is hardly trying to get a debate "shut down" now is it?

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-08-2014 8:01am

Tail Docker wrote: »

So it's not a private company? Cool. No need to sign a contract so. Thanks for that.

Why would you sign anyway? Sure you had 2 wells sunk and a €300,000 state of the art pumphouse built for this

L1011 · 29-08-2014 8:10am

Banjo String wrote: »

Irish Water.

They're a for profit organisation aren't they?

That's not the definition of a private company. Irish Water are not a private company.

Tail Docker · 29-08-2014 8:14am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would you sign anyway? Sure you had 2 wells sunk and a €13,000 state of the art pumphouse built for this

FYP. I posted in a thread on Peugeots there yesterday and that doesn't affect me either. rebel that I am.

kneemos · 29-08-2014 8:15am

MYOB wrote: »

That's not the definition of a private company. Irish Water are not a private company.

They will be when it's sold .

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-08-2014 8:16am

Tail Docker wrote: »

FYP. I posted in a thread on Peugeots there yesterday and that doesn't affect me either. rebel that I am.

My bad, fat fingers caused da typoz

L1011 · 29-08-2014 8:18am

kneemos wrote: »

They will be when it's sold .

Which isn't going to happen

Manach · 29-08-2014 8:24am

From reading on semi-states in general there primary purposes seem to be for the government to both show "something is being done" and to deflect blame "it is X agencies fault". They are prone to be difficult to define, lack a cohesive foundation aim beyond existing and have staff with little/no accountable to the people.

Irish Water is a tax collection agency for a service that is one the few things a state should have control and funding out of its core competencies in general tax collection, and thus shows how out of control tax and spend is still in this country.

more irish water nonsense

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