more irish water nonsense

steveone

Is anyone else completely stumped with this water thing? I really don't know what to do. Its like i want to pay it just for peace and quiet but i am sickened to the pit of my gut by the whole setup- i know its rotten to the core. Bills for the sake of it and jackboot P.R. Pay 'x' amount or pay '2x' just because...all to pay banks / bondholders or whatever.(if its not given to them directly its filling a gap left by monies given). I really am thinking of taking my chances with the dribbling tap, no washing machine, back to washing at the sink with a kettle of water. Madness it is.

Hotfail.com

I'm usually not of "the damn gubberment!" disposition, but Irish Water seems like an absolute joke.

Mint Aero

Well at least the streets are litter free, the parks beautifully landscaped, the potholes filled in etc all thanks to the property tax

This can only be a good thing. I envisage, clean drinking water for all! Except Galway

It was a bit shaky for the rest of the country there for a while. But thankfully our government swooped in to make sure those pesky evil septic tanks didn't kill our nations babies for the future export market.

Cows still pooping everywhere though.

policarp

steveone wrote: »

Is anyone else completely stumped with this water thing?
.

It's just another stealth tax.

emo72

Molotov cocktails ready to fire?

Cookie_Monster

policarp wrote: »

It's just another stealth tax.

I'm pro water rates and always have been. But, having seen how this has progressed from the initial outline to what's currently in place I have to agree. It's hard to see how it's anything other than a jobs for the boys club and an excessive, politicised tax grab.

whatsthetime

Total farce. Just another means of putting a public service into capitalist hands.

Hotfail.com

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm pro water rates and always have been. But, having seen how this has progressed from the initial outline to what's currently in place I have to agree. It's hard to see how it's anything other than a jobs for the boys club and an excessive, politicised tax grab.

Apparently (I haven't seen any definitive proof, I'd appreciate some if anyone has any though) water rates have always existed here just that they were raised through general taxation instead of a specific "charge".

Is Irish Water being set up to cover the rest of the water cost (presuming enough money isn't being raised already) or just as another way of increasing revenue?

whatsthetime

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm pro water rates and always have been. But, having seen how this has progressed from the initial outline to what's currently in place I have to agree. It's hard to see how it's anything other than a jobs for the boys club and an excessive, politicised tax grab.

Nothing wrong with water charges but they were already being paid through general taxation. And if they were not then the local councils could have been allowed charge.

Cookie_Monster

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Apparently (I haven't seen any definitive proof, I'd appreciate some if anyone has any though) water rates have always existed here just that they were raised through general taxation instead of a specific "charge".

no, there used to be rates paid by households that covered them until FF abolished them to buy an election. since then they've been part paid by tax but mostly by borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#The_first_abolition_of_domestic_water_charges

policarp

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, there used to be rates paid by households that covered them until FF abolished them to buy an election. since then they've been part paid by tax but mostly by borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#The_first_abolition_of_domestic_water_charges

One of the biggest mistakes ever made was to abolish household rates. . .IMO.
It was paid to the local authority and was used for bin collection, water, sewage, street cleaning, street lighting, libraries, parks and gardens and many more services.

Phoebas

Isn't there already a bunch of threads on this topic?

Banjo String

As with everything else in life, be wary of the small print.

The application forms for your (not great, when you consider we've around the highest water charges in europe) 'free' allowance, is actually a contract, in which you agree to becoming a customer of Irish Waters, and give them permission to start charging you for a utility you're already paying for through income tax, vat etc.

IrishWater are promoting these forms as if they are applications for the  free allowances – but in reality the form is really a contract to agree to be a customer of Irish Water and to set up a customer account with them.

So why aren't Irish Water calling the 'application pack' a contract, if that's what it actually Is, what are they worried about

On the forms it states  “  It is an offence under the Water Services Act, 2007 (as amended) to knowingly provide false or misleading information in this form and a person who does so is liable to a fine on summary conviction. By completing and returning this form, I declare that to the best of my knowledge all of the information provided is true and accurate. If I have confirmed that I am connected to the public water main and/or the public sewer then I declare that I am a customer of Irish Water, otherwise I am declaring that I am not a customer of Irish Water . Where I have declared I am a customer of Irish Water, I am confirming I have the authority to open an account at the premises and that I am liable for water charges at the premises . I confirm that I will advise Irish Water if there is any material change to the information provided in this form ”

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/category/irish-water

What happens if you refuse to engage with them, if you refuse to sign a contract, what powers have they to charge you, and if your unmetered, how will they reduce your pressure?

I don't no how a company you're not a customer of can demand payment from you for their services you never requested.

Phoebas

^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

kneemos

Should outsource it to a British company,bound to have spare capacity for a million or two households.

Jonblack

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, there used to be rates paid by households that covered them until FF abolished them to buy an election.

The vat rate was increased to cover the rates. The car tax was also cut and fuel duty increased. Two good short term election winners.

Tail Docker

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

err, no, sounds like a Private company wants people to sign a contract. What if people don't want to?

L1011

Tail Docker wrote: »

err, no, sounds like a Private company wants people to sign a contract. What if people don't want to?

What private company?

Phoebas

Tail Docker wrote: »

What if people don't want to?

They can stop using the IW water and waste water services.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

Isn't there already a bunch of threads on this topic?

Oh look, more negative attention.

Get the debate shut down lads, quick.

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

What bit? All I did was copy and paste an extract from the actual dubiously formed contract information pack. Then asked what could happen homes not metered if they refuse to sign, and therefore are not customers of Irish Water?

How will they be disconnected, or as that's not permitted, reduced?

How come if you question a government policy, or Irish Water gave charge around here, you're either a 'Shinnerbot' or spouting 'freeman nonsense'

Banjo String

MYOB wrote: »

What private company?

Irish Water.

They're a for profit organisation aren't they?

same ol sh1te

I have no problem paying for water, but it better be spring quality coming out my tap not the sh1te we have at the moment, as it is we can't drink it and buy 10l a week.

Tail Docker

MYOB wrote: »

What private company?

So it's not a private company? Cool. No need to sign a contract so. Thanks for that.

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Oh look, more negative attention.

Get the debate shut down lads, quick.



What bit? All I did was copy and paste an extract from the actual dubiously formed contract information pack. Then asked what could happen homes not metered if they refuse to sign, and therefore are not customers of Irish Water?

How will they be disconnected, or as that's not permitted, reduced?

How come if you question a government policy, or Irish Water gave charge around here, you're either a 'Shinnerbot' or spouting 'freeman nonsense'

Pointing out that there is already a thread on this topic is hardly trying to get a debate "shut down" now is it?

Timberrrrrrrr

Tail Docker wrote: »

So it's not a private company? Cool. No need to sign a contract so. Thanks for that.

Why would you sign anyway? Sure you had 2 wells sunk and a €300,000 state of the art pumphouse built for this

L1011

Banjo String wrote: »

Irish Water.

They're a for profit organisation aren't they?

That's not the definition of a private company. Irish Water are not a private company.

Tail Docker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would you sign anyway? Sure you had 2 wells sunk and a €13,000 state of the art pumphouse built for this

FYP. I posted in a thread on Peugeots there yesterday and that doesn't affect me either. rebel that I am.

kneemos

MYOB wrote: »

That's not the definition of a private company. Irish Water are not a private company.

They will be when it's sold .

Timberrrrrrrr

Tail Docker wrote: »

FYP. I posted in a thread on Peugeots there yesterday and that doesn't affect me either. rebel that I am.

My bad, fat fingers caused da typoz

L1011

kneemos wrote: »

They will be when it's sold .

Which isn't going to happen

Manach

From reading on semi-states in general there primary purposes seem to be for the government to both show "something is being done" and to deflect blame "it is X agencies fault". They are prone to be difficult to define, lack a cohesive foundation aim beyond existing and have staff with little/no accountable to the people.

Irish Water is a tax collection agency for a service that is one the few things a state should have control and funding out of its core competencies in general tax collection, and thus shows how out of control tax and spend is still in this country.

kneemos

MYOB wrote: »

Which isn't going to happen

No more expenditure on water,not responsible for water charges?Dont see why they wouldn't.

Banjo String

MYOB wrote: »

That's not the definition of a private company. Irish Water are not a private company.

Here's a screen shot of the bottom of their Web page, www.water.ie

For those on mobile.

Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares . Registered Office Colvill House, 24-26 Talbot Street, Dublin 1. Registered in Ireland. Registered No. 530363

L1011

Banjo String wrote: »

Here's a screen shot of the bottom of their Web page, www.water.ie

For those on mobile.

Owned 100% by the state and hence a public company.

Standard freeman nonsense to run with a gross misinterpretation.

TallGlass

If I pay a license fee for my dog, will he get a water allowance. I mean he pays his license and enjoys his cold water.

dxhound2005

I have no problem paying for water but I don't want to pay for water.

The Bishop Basher

MYOB wrote: »

Standard freeman nonsense to run with a gross misinterpretation.

I really wish the pro government lobby on here would come up with a more cohesive argument then repeating this mantra over and over again. I appreciate that it's difficult to defend the indefensible but throwing slurs at those with an opposing view in the lack of any form of intelligent view point really doesn't make for a good debate and does nothing to support your position. On the contrary, it has the opposite effect.

L1011

Swanner wrote: »

I really wish the pro government lobby on here would come up with a more cohesive argument then repeating this mantra over and over again. I appreciate that it's difficult to defend the indefensible but throwing slurs at those with an opposing view in the lack of any form of intelligent view point really doesn't make for a good debate and does nothing to support your position. On the contrary, it has the opposite effect.

When the "opposing view" is nothing more than a complete failure to think, what do you propose instead?

The Bishop Basher

MYOB wrote: »

When the "opposing view" is, in my humble opinion, nothing more than a complete failure to think, what do you propose instead?

FYP

Banjo String

MYOB wrote: »

Owned 100% by the state and hence a public company.

Standard freeman nonsense to run with a gross misinterpretation.

Ah yeah, that's it, I'm a freeman of the land, travelling to work lol.

Well sorry for my ignorance, but if a company website states that it's a private company, and registered as such, what else are we to assume?

Why the need to register a government body as a private entity, I'm not up to speed on how this works (admittedly) but I'm going by their website.

Aside from that, anyone care to answer this part.

Then asked what could happen homes not metered if they refuse to sign, and therefore are not customers of Irish Water? 

How will they be disconnected, or as that's not permitted, reduced? 

Why produce a contract that is masquerading as a friendly 'information pack' why not call it a contract, if that's what it is?

Lot of insult slinging, but no one seems willing to answer.

L1011

Banjo String wrote: »

Why the need to register a government body as a private entity, I'm not up to speed on how this works (admittedly) but I'm going by their website.

All semi-states are registered as Ltd companies or even PLCs. Its how they ensure they can have their own borrowings, own credit rating, etc. Doesn't stop them being public bodies.

Banjo String

MYOB wrote: »

All semi-states are registered as Ltd companies or even PLCs. Its how they ensure they can have their own borrowings, own credit rating, etc. Doesn't stop them being public bodies.

Any thoughts on the contract, and repercussions for non metered houses who refuse to engage?

papu

Banjo String wrote: »

Any thoughts on the contract, and repercussions for non metered houses who refuse to engage?

Hopefully no water .

Daith

papu wrote: »

Hopefully no water .

When myself and my housemate are out of the country for three weeks in Nov, could we ask Irish Water not to bill us for those three weeks?

mickydoomsux

I heard down the bookies that if you don't sign the contract, spin around three times on one leg during a full moon and say "Bloody Mary" eight times into a bathroom mirror then the ghost of Charlie Haughey will appear and give you free water for life.

Can anyone confirm?

mickydoomsux

Daith wrote: »

When myself and my housemate are out of the country for three weeks in Nov, could we ask Irish Water not to bill us for those three weeks?

Do you ask other utility companies to do the same usually?

Daith

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I heard down the bookies that if you don't sign the contract, spin around three times on one leg during a full moon and say "Bloody Mary" eight times into a bathroom mirror then the ghost of Charlie Haughey will appear and give you free water for life.

Can anyone confirm?

Free water? Sure everyone has been paying for water through tax. Not paying enough yes but never "free" water.

papu

Daith wrote: »

When myself and my housemate are out of the country for three weeks in Nov, could we ask Irish Water not to bill us for those three weeks?

Will you be asking for those 3 weeks off your TV license too?

Daith

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Do you ask other utility companies to do the same usually?

My ESB bill and Bord Gais bill would reflect the fact that we haven't been using electricity or gas?

papu wrote: »

Will you be asking for those 3 weeks off your TV license too?

My TV licence bill is a utility I use?

kneemos

Banjo String wrote: »

Any thoughts on the contract, and repercussions for non metered houses who refuse to engage?

The Government wouldn't need a contract to impose charges,a private company might though.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Any thoughts on the contract, and repercussions for non metered houses who refuse to engage?

If you refuse to engage with them and you don't have a meter you'll be billed by them per the 'default assessed charge' (page 7 of the application guide).

Any idea that you don't have to pay because you refuse to enter a 'contract' with them is just freeman style nonsense.