more irish water nonsense

papu

peking97 wrote: »

Not free water. Water that has already been paid for.

Not once Irish water switches over , they'll be running and maintaining the service then charging directly for it.

UCDVet

I live in an apartment - anyone want to buy some discount water from me?

wiseoldelf34

I hope they get the ph sorted.water down here isn't fit for consumption.
plays havoc with my hydro setup

Ogham

UCDVet wrote: »

I live in an apartment - anyone want to buy some discount water from me?

How much for a bath?

UCDVet

Ogham wrote: »

How much for a bath?

For an accurate estimate I will need to know your age, gender, and level of attractiveness.

Rucking_Fetard

UCDVet wrote: »

For an accurate estimate I will need to know your age, gender, and level of attractiveness.

And weight

steveone

papu wrote: »

Why doesn't he do the same with his ESB and gas meter? Why does he think he's entitled to free water when everyone around him starts paying?

I know this was in response to a particular link but it identifies the basic reason I posted this thread in the first place. In my situation I have more of a problem with paying money for money's sake than paying it for the provision of excellent water services (which I know won't happen). If they put a meter in I'd be damn sure i'd have my usage down to the drop and pay no more just as I do with the esb etc. or better still, credit on the meter, tenner a week or whatever. This money is nothing more than a bill, as was rightly pointed out imo conservation is not the motive, if it was there would be many ways of introducing self sustainance etc..it's slime at their best pocket lining and the true defenders of our nation in leinster house are afraid to do anything except pass legislation to allow it. The trapped feeling I get from this situation (above all others- and we've had a few) is un nerving and I'm not generally a nervous type.

tell you what tho, I went and got myself a water pump and an ibc for the rain, to pump up a separate tank in the attic for toilet, shower. and then it dawned on me... water storage tax..........
still, I have a reason now to piss in the composter as i believe its good for activating the enzymes to break down the soil...and I suppose I'll be able to claim for damage and service to ballcock valves in the standard tank twice a year, and kettles, and washing machines dishwashers etc, we will get free de-scaler and i assume free water quality checks- (because every single item we purchase goes through health checks, even the dog food.) so I suppose there's light at the end n'all that.

also, if (as i suspect will happen) they don't put meters in my area, can I refuse to pay the assessed charge and make them install the meter and pay by use? I'll pay for what I take, not an average on what everybody takes..If they were worried about the meter being damaged on street they are free to set it up in the attic beside the main tank, once installation is free that is...

Head The Wall

Daith wrote: »

You are comparing a year contract like insurance with a utility charge. Meaningless comparison.



Yes the standing charge but Irish Water will charge me THE FULL AMOUNT! Would you have an issue if ESB or Bord Gais charged you for using their services when you didn't?

Maybe you should look up what a standing charge is before you make yourself more ridiculous. With gas and electricity you don't pay their usage while away but you will still be paying something.

The same well apply to water, you will be paying for the service of water being supplied to your property while you are their or not. Unless you think they rip up the waste and water pipes while you're not there

Head The Wall

darkpagandeath wrote: »

But it's not though is it, I can sit here with my shower on all day and night and pay the same flat rate. You think anyone in My position is going to save water rather than getting their money's worth ?


I will be using water normally like always.

If it was me, I would want to get a meter in so I can start conserving and pay less than the assessed charge, wouldn't be hard because a lot of people have no consideration these days and waste, waste, waste

Daith

Head The Wall wrote: »

Maybe you should look up what a standing charge is before you make yourself more ridiculous. With gas and electricity you don't pay their usage while away but you will still be paying something.

The same well apply to water, you will be paying for the service of water being supplied to your property while you are their or not. Unless you think they rip up the waste and water pipes while you're not there

That's what I said? I'll be paying a standing charge but not for electricity that I won't be using. Jesus.

With Irish Water they will still charge me for an assessed amount of water that they think I'll use despite not using it.

HobbyMan

Eh eh I wonder if Irish Water will be a profitable enterprise?

Wouldn't surprise me if it runs at a loss so that they'll have to implement higher taxes to cover the cost. ;-)

Edit: They couldn't increase water charges as that would cause uproar.

Rucking_Fetard

HobbyMan wrote: »

Edit: They couldn't increase water charges as that would cause uproar.

No it wouldn't. If what they did to introduce charges didnt create a peep, a hike surely wont.

S.O

steveone wrote: »

I
tell you what tho, I went and got myself a water pump and an ibc for the rain, to pump up a separate tank in the attic for toilet, shower..

Do you mind me asking what did it cost you to set up the system in terms of purchase + installation ? asking because Im considering something along the same lines.

shanered

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

No it wouldn't. If what they did to introduce charges didnt create a peep, a hike surely wont.

The response would be get onto Joe, "Woe is me"!!

Head The Wall

Daith wrote: »

That's what I said? I'll be paying a standing charge but not for electricity that I won't be using. Jesus.

With Irish Water they will still charge me for an assessed amount of water that they think I'll use despite not using it.

Thanks for confirming what I was saying. You obviously haven't a clue what a standing charge is

steveone

S.O wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what did it cost you to set up the system in terms of purchase + installation ? asking because Im considering something along the same lines.

I got the ibc off a friend for beer money but you can find them (or barrels) on donedeal. the pump was about 60. its a submersible one that'll go in the ibc and lifts to 8m which should reach the attic easy enough. I'll switch it on when I want to send water to the tank (once a day type thing) . it takes std inch and half pipe, or you could reduce it, or whatever. all i need now is the attic tank, which I'll be mooching around skips for etc. so cost wise I'd say max 100? I have pipe so I'll just be needing bits n pieces, I'll do the work myself.
it wont be pretty but it will work..

whatsthetime

Head The Wall wrote: »

Thanks for confirming what I was saying. You obviously haven't a clue what a standing charge is

Do you know what an accessed charge is?

ART6

I have just received "Your Irish Water application pack." A cause for celebration no doubt! However, a few (disjointed) Joe Public thoughts occur to me:

1. Domestic water supplies in Ireland pre-Irish Water cost around €1.2bn a year from general taxation. Now everyone who uses mains water, even if it is a health hazard, must pay a fee for the privilege. So what happens to the €1.2bn from general taxation? If it is not reduced then this amounts to double taxation that is illegal in EU law.

2. I live in a rural area, in a house that was built in 1970. There is no identifiable water supply to my house, but I suspect that it is probably a supply that serves at least three houses that were all built at the same time. My supply (such as it is) cannot be metered and cannot, therefore, be reduced to a trickle if I don't pay. Irish Water cannot install their meters in my direct supply because it appears to run through my back garden, and I will not allow them onto my property.

3. Equally, if I live in an apartment block with a communal water supply, my service is not individually metered and so cannot be restricted. So why should I pay Irish Water?

4. If I don't agree to pay this double charge then what? If enough people refuse to pay, as they did in 1995. Can we look forward to the recovery of the charges being handed over to the Revenue Commissioners and deducted from wages and welfare upon the basis of a deemed water consumption per adult or child (with, of course, a generous allowance for every child that has the temerity to consume water)? As the government rightly says, if you don't pay then someone else must, because we need to finance our outlandish waste of taxpayer's money. The fact that you will receive little for it other than ensuring the future of your political representatives is irrelevant (Hogan to the EC as agricultural commissioner).

5. A significant proportion of the population has undrinkable water, and some have been without it for up to four years. Irish Water will, of course, correct that eventually when their bean counters and consultants can justify doing so, but in the meantime those people must pay at least half of what they would have been charged for potable water -- water fit for flushing the loo but no use for anything else. Then they must pay Irish Water to take it away again.

6. Anyone who has bothered to look into the financial projections of Irish Water must know that the original average charge proposed by Enda Kenny could only be a nonsense. The charge has to be on average €1,000 a year for Irish Water to break even, never mind paying the government the €500m a year that it expects to take.

So now let's move on to the other government initiatives:

7. The household rates were abolished by Fine Fail, and motor taxes were to provide at least some of the income for local authorities, the rest from taxpayers funds. Still, the motor taxes are provided to the authorities, but now a property tax has been implemented and the government subvention will be reduced accordingly. Since the government subvention comes from the taxes people pay, that is double taxation unless the subvention results in an appropriate reduction elsewhere. At the moment I pay €710 a year to tax my car, and now I have to pay €350 a year in property tax -- and I no longer receive at least drinkable mains water from my local authority even if it seemed to have come from the local sewage plant that hasn't worked properly in the last twenty years. Oh, and I live on a road that the army would be reluctant to test their tanks on in case of damage.

8. Now let's add into this equation the Universal Social Charge. What in hell is that for? Anyone know? Is it even distantly possible that it is income tax by another cobbled together name?

So now back to basics. Where does the government receive its running costs from? Well, of course from multinationals domiciled in Ireland, employing two people and paying almost no national taxes on turnovers of billions. From national entrepreneurs who have taken the risk and mortgaged their houses to the public-owned banks? The former cannot be targeted for funds, but as we have seen, the latter certainly can be.

The milch cow for governments is, of course, the general population that works, makes something, and pays to the government a substantial proportion of ts income for the privilege of doing so. So what does that majority get for its money? Lies, subterfuge, political party loyalties, and the draining of the people's economy to pay reckless gamblers in foreign countries who cannot be permitted to lose in order to protect a financiaL union that was doomed from the start.

This is, sadly, the inheritance of a succession of Irish cobbled-together coalitions that no-one voted for, dominated by life time politicians who are more concerned with the needs of the party than those of the people. This is evidenced by the latest move to send a disastrously failed minister to the EC as agricultural commissioner where he can cause chaos in the whole European industry, but it will get him out of the news for a while and give the party breathing space in which to come up with the next PR release and the next give and take in preparation for the next general election.

Out there, sadly, is a nation of suckers who will fall for it yet again.

dxhound2005

ART6 wrote: »

7. The household rates were abolished by Fine Fail, and motor taxes were to provide at least some of the income for local authorities, the rest from taxpayers funds.

Just to correct the historical record. Motor tax was also abolished along with domestic rates on property. From memory a 5 pence increase was put on petrol to replace the lost funding. But the Motor Tax came back in and the price of petrol stayed up.

emeo

Received my contract of doom, sorry starter pack today
I am just wondering if they all are addressed to "the occupant"
or if its just mine??

Mrs Garth Brooks

Imagine Vodafone, O2 or Sky or any other company you're not with sending you an information pack but forcing you to sign up. ****ing hell.

Ogham

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Imagine Vodafone, O2 or Sky or any other company you're not with sending you an information pack but forcing you to sign up. ****ing hell.

You are "with" your local council for water - and their water services function has been taken over by Irish Water as legislated by the Dail.
Because the councils never kept proper records of who was connected to what - now IrishWater have to try and find out.

steveone

Ogham wrote: »

You are "with" your local council for water - and their water services function has been taken over by Irish Water as legislated by the Dail.
Because the councils never kept proper records of who was connected to what - now IrishWater have to try and find out.

I'm sure they could find out without signing up to a contract?

Ogham

steveone wrote: »

I'm sure they could find out without signing up to a contract?

Some council's probably have no records of exactly who they supply - especially in rural areas. They have to charge now so they need to get details for billing . There was no record of who owned which house until the property tax came along.

EU have told Ireland that they have to charge for water - and now they have to find out who to bill .

Ogham

emeo wrote: »

Received my contract of doom, sorry starter pack today
I am just wondering if they all are addressed to "the occupant"
or if its just mine??

It looks like many are personally addressed too. Some have gone to accountants. It seems they have use property tax info - but where a property is rented they won't know who the tenant is in most cases.
They are authorised to use data from Revenue , PTRB , Local Councils, Gas and Electricity Suppliers and Social Welfare .

ART6

Ogham wrote: »

They are authorised to use data from Revenue , PTRB , Local Councils, Gas and Electricity Suppliers and Social Welfare .

Just imagine the outcry if another "company" -- say Airtricity -- was permitted by law to do that?

Ogham

ART6 wrote: »

Just imagine the outcry if another "company" -- say Airtricity -- was permitted by law to do that?

But they are the 100% state owned water utility - not a profit making company like Airtricity.

ART6

Ogham wrote: »

But they are the 100% state owned water utility - not a profit making company like Airtricity.

They are not controlled by any minister or government department. They are permitted to borrow to fund capital expenditure. They are expected to provide €500m a year to government coffers (in tax, returns on investment, or what? Who knows?). They can seek to enter into contracts with their customers (the Irish Water application pack). They are required to be profitable are not a "not for profit" operation. Please explain the difference between IW and a limited company?

seamus

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Imagine Vodafone, O2 or Sky or any other company you're not with sending you an information pack but forcing you to sign up. ****ing hell.

You can always send the pack back indicating that you're not a customer. Oh wait, you are. You're not being forced to sign up to anything, you already receive water from the public system therefore you're already a customer. It's not rocket science.

Any of those companies could send you the exact same information pack, but it would be a massive waste of their money because they already know who their customers are.

Tim76

I was initially pro-water rates but this debacle is making me sick to my stomach.

Anybody know the consequences of not sighing and returning this "contract"?

I'm living on my own in an apartment, can they even cut me off??