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Protestors disrupting World War 1 commemoration at Glasnevin

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Comments

  • #392
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Yes I do, my ancestors are your ancestors, but Ive gotten over it

    You obviously aren't a relative of one of the 150 innocent men women and children who were murdered in the north by the British army or the hundreds more who were murdered by loyalists who the BA/RUC/UDR colluded with.

    Would you tell them to 'get over it'?


  • #393
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    I suppose you've lost the argument when you do revert to name calling.


  • #394
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,328 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    You obviously aren't a relative of one of the 150 innocent men women and children who were murdered in the north by the British army or the hundreds more who were murdered by loyalists who the BA/RUC/UDR colluded with.

    Would you tell them to 'get over it'?

    Gonna repeat what was said by someone earlier, attrocities were committed by both sides. However calling for more blood like several have on here is not a solution. Anyone involved on either side needs to be brought to justice obviously but beyond that revenge is not a solution


  • #395
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Your clear implication in the post was, that SF would somehow gain by being quiet on the subject. You write it...we can only interpret it. Calm down!




    Yes, they were protesting at the idea of any Irishmen/women dying for the British crown...whose forces never had any problem disrupting a funeral service of the recently dead whenever they saw fit btw.

    And please...less of the childish name calling. I have not one shred of support in my body for those you refer to as 'dissidents' but I will defend their right to peaceful protest, as I would anybodies,

    Could they have been fighting to make sure that the world would be a safe peacful place. But no that would be asking to people to think outside there hatred I suppose


  • #396
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    martingriff wrote: »
    Could they have been fighting to make sure that the world would be a safe peacful place. But no that would be asking to people to think outside there hatred I suppose

    That is a matter of interpretation I suppose.

    What beggars belief about all of this is that there are still people on this island that think the GFA cured all our ills. It simply hasn't and there are sizable numbers who still believe we have a way to go, on both sides.
    It will only continue to fester as the two governments play happy families reunited.
    Ignore it if you wish but don't act suprised everytime this rears it's head...it will continue to happen.


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  • #397
    pojfexcsc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭pojfexcsc


    martingriff wrote: »
    Could they have been fighting to make sure that the world would be a safe peacful place. But no that would be asking to people to think outside there hatred I suppose

    Some probably thought they were, reality is this was thousands of normal young fellas being put to the slaughter by those in charge, most as has been mentioned were fighting to either put food on their families plates and/or sent under false pretences about getting home rule and all.


  • #398
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That is a matter of interpretation I suppose.

    What beggars belief about all of this is that there are still people on this island that think the GFA cured all our ills. It simply hasn't and there are sizable numbers who still believe we have a way to go, on both sides.
    It will only continue to fester as the two governments play happy families reunited.
    Ignore it if you wish but don't act suprised everytime this rears it's head...it will continue to happen.

    Oh I do agree with you there however if you continue to fester hatred and not try some type of reconciliation in your own way then it will continue with the sons, daughters. Moving forward is needed however for anyone to think it is as easy as an agreement been signed then are deluded


  • #399
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    pojfexcsc wrote: »
    Some probably thought they were, reality is this was thousands of normal young fellas being put to the slaughter by those in charge, most as has been mentioned were fighting to either put food on their families plates and/or sent under false pretences about getting home rule and all.

    That is a matter of interpretation I suppose.


  • #400
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,613 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    You obviously aren't a relative of one of the 150 innocent men women and children who were murdered in the north by the British army or the hundreds more who were murdered by loyalists who the BA/RUC/UDR colluded with.

    Would you tell them to 'get over it'?

    I would still say the British Army were not the main players in the conflict. By the IRA's own admission, they were engaged in a "war" to try and force the British state to withdraw from NI. The British Army were responding to that and yes, behaved very badly at times but they were not the root cause of the sectarian conflict between republicanism and loyalism.


  • #401
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    martingriff wrote: »
    Oh I do agree with you there however if you continue to fester hatred and not try some type of reconciliation in your own way then it will continue with the sons, daughters. Moving forward is needed however for anyone to think it is as easy as an agreement been signed then are deluded

    The mistake that is being made again is that these people are being polarised and marginalised by those whose responsibility is to address the issues...that will reap it's own harvest. We have enough history to prove that.


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  • #402
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    pojfexcsc wrote: »
    Some probably thought they were, reality is this was thousands of normal young fellas being put to the slaughter by those in charge, most as has been mentioned were fighting to either put food on their families plates and/or sent under false pretences about getting home rule and all.

    I understood that most of those who went to war, chose to do so.

    This image of the big-bad-Brits vs the innocent-little-Irish really isn't helping the debate here.


  • #403
    pojfexcsc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭pojfexcsc


    Strazdas wrote: »
    I would still say the British Army were not the main players in the conflict. By the IRA's own admission, they were engaged in a "war" to try and force the British state to withdraw from NI. The British Army were responding to that and yes, behaved very badly at times but they were not the root cause of the sectarian conflict between republicanism and loyalism.

    You've said this point a few times but ignored the point I made that the army was very much intertwined with loyalist paramilitaries from their inception supplying them with weapons, information etc so saying they were not a main player is bollix I'm afraid.


  • #404
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Gonna repeat what was said by someone earlier, attrocities were committed by both sides.

    Why must you persist with this flaccid moral equivocation?

    I was specifically speaking about the innocent civilians killed by the British Army and its proxies. Hundreds of innocent civilians. What side were they on?
    Strazdas wrote: »
    I would still say the British Army were not the main players in the conflict

    The British state underpinned the Union/loyalist sectarian statelet. The civil rights movement was largely apolitical and non-sectarian and was met with brutality by the RUC and mass murder by the British Army.

    The British could have brought the mad dogs of union/loyalism to heel in the 70's and chose not to. They finally did in 1998 when the barricades were erected at Drumcree and the British Army prevented union/loyalists from marching the Garvaghy Road. That was powerful symbolism to union/loyalists - the message was loud and clear - unionist/loyalist domination was over for good.


  • #405
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    The posts from the republican boyos on here are absolutely cringe-worthy, "The British are our enemy", blah blah blah, you're like a broken record.
    I'm Irish but England and the Queen are no enemy of mine, I know what happened in the past was terrible but you have to move on, you come across as such bitter, warped people who just cannot move on. What good comes from such pent up hatred?


  • #406
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    unionist/loyalist domination was over for good.

    Because at that point it suited British self interest of course. The thousands of Ulstermen and women who gave their lives for the Crown suddenly didn't matter anymore, the British decided they wanted out and agreed to the mechanism to do that.


  • #407
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The mistake that is being made again is that these people are being polarised and marginalised by those whose responsibility is to address the issues...that will reap it's own harvest. We have enough history to prove that.

    Why should it be up to them. I think the ordinary people can and should be the ones to start to address the issues. Yes everyone need to be at the table but the first move can be taken by anyone Before you ask why should they make the first move I will ask why not


  • #408
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    The posts from the republican boyos on here are absolutely cringe-worthy, "The British are our enemy", blah blah blah, you're like a broken record.
    I'm Irish but England and the Queen are no enemy of mine, I know what happened in the past was terrible but you have to move on, you come across as such bitter, warped people who just cannot move on. What good comes from such pent up hatred?

    Move on to what exactly? Waving your wee flag at Lizzie, sure everything is all right mam?
    The past was terrible and there is still work to be done to make sure we can all live in peace. Just because you are too lazy of thought to grapple with the issues doesn't for one minute make those who are bitter, or twisted or pent up with hatred.
    There are truths here that cannot be swept aside just because some want to engage in hollow pomp and circumstance.


  • #409
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Your clear implication in the post was, that SF would somehow gain by being quiet on the subject. You write it...we can only interpret it. Calm down!

    If you got that from it, I apologise. I was trying to say the exact opposite!

    Sorry for the name calling mate :)


  • #410
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    martingriff wrote: »
    Why should it be up to them. I think the ordinary people can and should be the ones to start to address the issues. Yes everyone need to be at the table but the first move can be taken by anyone Before you ask why should they make the first move I will ask why not

    Because that is who we have vested the responsibility in.
    NI did not get the GFA until the British and Irish governments accepted their responsibilities.


  • #411
    any1butdublin3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭any1butdublin3


    Strazdas wrote: »
    It's not as if the British Army had any particular opinion on NI remaining within the UK or becoming part of a united Ireland.

    Many of them had, when a woman played the song 'four green fields' on the record player once a soldier shot her in the face through the window with a plastic bullet and blinded her.


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  • #412
    any1butdublin3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭any1butdublin3


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    The posts from the republican boyos on here are absolutely cringe-worthy, "The British are our enemy", blah blah blah, you're like a broken record.
    I'm Irish but England and the Queen are no enemy of mine, I know what happened in the past was terrible but you have to move on, you come across as such bitter, warped people who just cannot move on. What good comes from such pent up hatred?

    If the queen gave medals to soldiers who shot innocent people in Galway, Cork or Dublin your opinion would be different.


  • #413
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,328 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    any1butdublin3 wrote: »
    If the queen gave medals to soldiers who shot innocent people in Galway, Cork or Dublin your opinion would be different.

    Wow could you have more of a chip on your shoulder please? We get it you don't like people from the south of Ireland cus we didn't suffer like you did, its not our fault you know?


  • #414
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    any1butdublin3 wrote: »
    If the queen gave medals to soldiers who shot innocent people in Galway, Cork or Dublin your opinion would be different.

    As far as I know there is no medal for shooting innocent civilians anywhere...

    If only the UK Government had handled these incidents differently rather than let them fester. The landmark enquiry did go some way to right the wrongs of Bloody Sunday but because of the time involved its never going to be enough to appease some people.

    As is common with NI there are no winners.

    If those soldiers were brought to trial then surely they should treated as the same as PIRA / Loyalist terrorists post Good Friday and see a maximum 2 year sentence cap / let off by way of a letter as some of the murdering scrotes have over the years. I doubt that'll go down well with the Republicans though.


  • #415
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    any1butdublin3 wrote: »
    If the queen gave medals to soldiers who shot innocent people in Galway, Cork or Dublin your opinion would be different.

    I couldn't really care to be honest, but anyway that never happened so it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. I get that you guys hate the British, but again I ask, what good comes from such harbouring such bitter hatred for people? What exactly do you hope to acheive?


  • #416
    any1butdublin3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭any1butdublin3


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Wow could you have more of a chip on your shoulder please? We get it you don't like people from the south of Ireland cus we didn't suffer like you did, its not our fault you know?

    If hating an army and royal family who have shown my people little respect means I have a chip on my shoulder then that is ok.

    I don't dislike the people of rep. of Ireland as I am not a bigot, I just dislike certain individuals.


  • #417
    any1butdublin3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭any1butdublin3


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    I couldn't really care to be honest, but anyway that never happened so it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. I get that you guys hate the British, but again I ask, what good comes from such harbouring such bitter hatred for people? What exactly do you hope to acheive?

    I don't hate the British, there is a difference in hating the entire population of the island compared to hating the British Army


  • #418
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    any1butdublin3 wrote: »
    If hating an army and royal family who have shown my people little respect means I have a chip on my shoulder then that is ok.

    I don't dislike the people of rep. of Ireland as I am not a bigot, I just dislike certain individuals.

    Fuck off with this.


  • #419
    any1butdublin3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭any1butdublin3


    Hunterbiker wrote: »
    As far as I know there is no medal for shooting innocent civilians anywhere...

    If only the UK Government had handled these incidents differently rather than let them fester. The landmark enquiry did go some way to right the wrongs of Bloody Sunday but because of the time involved its never going to be enough to appease some people.

    As is common with NI there are no winners.

    If those soldiers were brought to trial then surely they should treated as the same as PIRA / Loyalist terrorists post Good Friday and see a maximum 2 year sentence cap / let off by way of a letter as some of the murdering scrotes have over the years. I doubt that'll go down well with the Republicans though.

    I believe that everyone who murdered anyone should have served their entire proper jail sentence for ending someones life, no matter if they were a republican, loyalist or soldier.


  • #420
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    any1butdublin3 wrote: »
    If hating an army and royal family who have shown my people little respect means I have a chip on my shoulder then that is ok.

    I don't dislike the people of rep. of Ireland as I am not a bigot, I just dislike certain individuals.
    The entire British Army and Royal Family is more than a few individuals so it you are being a bigot.
    Did you hate Mountbatten and the others who died with him?


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  • #421
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,328 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    any1butdublin3 wrote: »
    If hating an army and royal family who have shown my people little respect means I have a chip on my shoulder then that is ok.

    I don't dislike the people of rep. of Ireland as I am not a bigot, I just dislike certain individuals.

    Yes because the current royal family gave all the orders to the army during the troubles. They are figureheads nothing more as far as the army is concerned. Also the army is a pretty large group of people so disliking them because of their status as a group kinda is the very definition of a bigot.

    You only dislike anyone who disagrees with your extreme, bloodlusting and vengeful point of view it seems, which is a great way to go through life


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