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So what do ye know about Islam?

13

Comments

  • #102
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    ///3power wrote: »
    Learn about the Golden ratio. It's beautiful, really... The powers that shouldn't be don't want you to learn about these things.

    Ask yourself why you never heard of the golden ratio through your ENTIRE primary and secondary education? Yet, it's been discovered for centuries.
    I've known about the golden ratio since I was six or seven. If the powers that be don't want us to learn about them, how did they fail to prevent me from hearing about it?
    I mean, mathematicians have a real passion for it.
    The ones that managed to slip through the PtBs' net as well?
    I don't know about aspect ratios of DNA...
    It's claimed in the video that you linked. It's wrong. The video is wrong.

    Doesn't that trouble you?
    As far as the golden ratio of Mecca, again, it's well documented.
    ...and wrong.

    OK, fair enough: the golden mean point of latitude falls somewhere just outside Mecca, to the south - but if the golden ratio was significant in the way you claim, wouldn't you think the Kaaba would be located precisely in the right place?

    The video also claims that it's located at the golden mean point of longitude. Leaving aside the fact that it seems to arbitrarily choose the international date line as its reference point, the ratio in that direction is 1.5682, which is even further from the golden ratio.
    It turns out, all Allah's creation travels anticlockwise, from the very small electrons and protons around an atom...
    Protons don't travel around an atom, and electrons are far too complicated to have something as simplistic as an anticlockwise orbit.
    ...to the very great planets around the sun.
    Except Neptune's moon Triton, which orbits in the other direction. Plus, the orbits are only anticlockwise as perceived from an arbitrary position above the Earth's north pole, as opposed to an equally arbitrary view from above the south pole.


  • #103
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ///3power wrote: »
    [...] we still rely on a star and on nature i.e God to show us the way. Even though he was oblivious to that fact and just said it so casually without even realising what he was saying.
    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here - a sidereal co-ordinate system is just one of many co-ordinate systems in use.
    ///3power wrote: »
    Do you really believe it's just by chance that there is a star perfectly placed in space, that ALWAYS shows us which way is north, no matter what position the earth is in. Do you really believe that's just a coincidence? We're here spinning around, whilst simultaneously flying around the sun at tens of thousands of miles a minute, yet this star is perfectly placed in line with the earths central axis, consistently showing us north.
    Well, so far as I recall, the North Star is a little less than one degree off the rotational axis. Not very perfect, you'll have to agree. Does that mean that god is accurate to around one degree too?
    ///3power wrote: »
    I mean He directly tells us, no fooling around, and it's true!
    He didn't tell us. It is fooling around. And it's not true.

    I hope this helps.


  • #104
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ///3power wrote: »
    It turns out, all Allah's creation travels anticlockwise, from the very small electrons and protons around an atom, to the very great planets around the sun.
    If you think that everything turns anti-clockwise, then if you change viewing sides by moving through the plane of rotation, you'll find that all Allah's creation is travelling clockwise.

    I think I'm beginning to understand why none of the islamic-controlled countries have had any real success in space.

    .


  • #105
    Gordon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    ///3power wrote: »
    Learn about the Golden ratio. It's beautiful, really...
    I have learned about it.
    How many more signs/proofs you want?

    The more i type the more i remember. Ultimately, you need to learn this stuff for yourself.

    Tell me stuff i don't know, i like learning too you know.
    What you typed doesn't answer what the miracle is. What's the big deal about the fact that you think Mecca exists in that particular point on Earth? What exactly is the miracle?
    Why is no one talking about the miracle of Mecca video link i gave you?
    What miracle?


  • #106
    ///3power
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭///3power


    Well, at the very least i presented my little knowledge. If i even helped one person on the path of truth, i would be honoured and grateful to them.

    There's a tonne more info out there. Real evidence. These stories in scripture are not just fairytales, they're lessons and warnings. They are well documented and can be verified and cross verified. There's even new scriptures found that remain suppressed because they challenge the status quo. Dead sea scrolls or the Gospel of Barnabus.. Forget Hollywood, when you start truly learning about the events of the past, the stories are fascinating and most importantly contain profound wisdom and guidance. The best source is the Qur'an. What have you got to lose? Everything to gain.

    As much as i enjoy talking with (most of) you, this is eating up too much of my time. My objective was to give out the info i know, and for you to make of it what you will.

    If time wasn't going so fast (as predicted by the last prophet, as we approach the hour) i'd stay chatting and dig up more and more evidences i've discovered in my research. Unfortunately time is limited and precious. Time i need to spend furthering my knowledge, not spouting it in vain (i hope it's not in vain).


    Salam wa alaikum to you all


  • #107
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    ///3power wrote: »
    Well, at the very least i presented my little knowledge.

    Oh it was little alright.


  • #108
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ///3power wrote: »
    They are well documented and can be verified and cross verified.
    Like the North Star not actually pointing north. And the business with rotation being dependent on perspective?
    ///3power wrote: »
    What have you got to lose?
    Time, interest and accuracy would be my top three.


  • #109
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ///3power wrote: »
    .........

    If time wasn't going so fast (as predicted by the last prophet, as we approach the hour) i'd stay chatting and dig up more and more evidences i've discovered in my research. Unfortunately time is limited and precious. Time i need to spend furthering my knowledge, not spouting it in vain (i hope it's not in vain).


    It's in vain.


  • #110
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    LordChessington wrote: »
    Would love to see a debate between this guy and JC.



    Actually, no I wouldn't.

    And with that moment the final seal will be broken.
    ///3power wrote: »
    Learn about the Golden ratio. It's beautiful, really... The powers that shouldn't be don't want you to learn about these things.

    Which powers and why dont they want us to know?
    ///3power wrote: »
    Ask yourself why you never heard of the golden ratio through your ENTIRE primary and secondary education? Yet, it's been discovered for centuries.

    I did, even then its just a passing remark. How much detail are they supposed to go into it?
    ///3power wrote: »
    I mean, mathematicians have a real passion for it. Everything is maths! The golden ratio is just another (very significant) proof of intelligent design behind all creation.

    They do?
    How does the golden ratio prove intelligent design? What other proof is there? Surely if there is so much proof it must be true and accepted and yet, it isn't.
    ///3power wrote: »
    What's so important about it, is that it connects us (creation) all together. The leaves on a tree, the petals of a flower, proportions of animals, proportions of humans. It's everywhere. That's what's important. I don't know about aspect ratios of DNA, (evidence for knowledge of DNA was also discovered in the Qur'an, look it up). I'm not wrong about the golden ratio, is very well documented. As far as the golden ratio of Mecca, again, it's well documented.

    Another thing i forgot to add about the Ka'ba. God has commanded us through his final prophet to walk around the Ka'ba in an anticlockwise direction.

    It turns out, all Allah's creation travels anticlockwise, from the very small electrons and protons around an atom, to the very great planets around the sun. To the even greater galaxies as they swivel around in an anticlockwise direction. We Muslims are just following along with the rest of His creation.

    Umm, electrons dont travel clockwise.
    ///3power wrote: »
    How many more signs/proofs you want?

    The more i type the more i remember. Ultimately, you need to learn this stuff for yourself.

    Tell me stuff i don't know, i like learning too you know.

    Well some signs that can be proven would be a nice start. For some stuff the religious say magic while I'll say we just dont know the reasons yet. We have never discovered a god to be behind anything yet so I'll wait until we do.
    robindch wrote: »
    If you think that everything turns anti-clockwise, then if you change viewing sides by moving through the plane of rotation, you'll find that all Allah's creation is travelling clockwise.

    I think I'm beginning to understand why none of the islamic-controlled countries have had any real success in space.

    .

    Maybe they need to do more math outside of 1 ratio and learn things can go clockwise too. Understanding the electron may help too if they wish to have some electrical systems.


  • #111
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    ///3power wrote: »
    If i even helped one person on the path of truth, i would be honoured and grateful to them.

    Don't worry, I'm sure the nonsense and anti-semitic conspiracies you've posted has turned at least one person toward atheism.


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  • #112
    DarkJager
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭DarkJager


    Islam - the "religion of peace" that ironically loves violence and grossly inhumane acts such as honor killings, beheadings etc. What do I know about Islam? I know the world would be a much better place without it.


  • #113
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,782 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Can I have my money back? I said yes at the start, then read this entire thread, and nothing happened.


  • #114
    legspin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCHHfBeu0QE


    Hitch nails it. All you will ever need to know about the Koran.


  • #115
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ///3power wrote: »
    Well, at the very least i presented my little knowledge. If i even helped one person on the path of truth, i would be honoured and grateful to them.
    If someone was convinced by you after you make very false claims and fail to defend them, then they are not on a path to truth.

    Maybe you should consider if you're on the path to true given that all the evidence you supplied turns out to be completely wrong and based on misinformation and assumption.


  • #116
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    DarkJager wrote: »
    Islam - the "religion of peace" that ironically loves violence and grossly inhumane acts such as honor killings, beheadings etc. What do I know about Islam? I know the world would be a much better place without it.

    Pretty much all religious have a extremely dark side, look at the blood on the hands of the christian faith,

    Basically no religion is innocent,


  • #117
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    Still waiting on an answer to how you can believe everything written in a 1400 year old book, but something written on a wiki is automatically suspect because anyone could have put anything they wanted in there...


  • #118
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Still waiting on an answer to how you can believe everything written in a 1400 year old book, but something written on a wiki is automatically suspect because anyone could have put anything they wanted in there...

    You know the answer to this already,

    a God wrote it
    :rolleyes:
    :D


  • #119
    OneEightSeven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭OneEightSeven


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Still waiting on an answer to how you can believe everything written in a 1400 year old book, but something written on a wiki is automatically suspect because anyone could have put anything they wanted in there...

    Wikipedia is sourced. The mods delete the rubbish. I would trust Wikipedia before some random person's opinion on the internet.


  • #120
    OneEightSeven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭OneEightSeven


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Pretty much all religious have a extremely dark side, look at the blood on the hands of the christian faith,

    Basically no religion is innocent,

    They all began off as cults with the ulterior motive to brainwash and exploit people for power and wealth. Islam would be the least liberal of the mainstream ones because it originates from an illiberal region of the world - Christianity is more modernized as most Christians don't even bother reading or disagree with various parts of the Bible.


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  • #121
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,492 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Gordon wrote: »
    Just because someone/thing has facts that do not support your religious book, doesn't mean that it's anti-Islam.

    Yes it does. Facts are anti-islamic!


    Oh, and

    513px-Young_ostrich_and_egg.jpg

    It's not very Earth-shaped, now is it?

    Scrap the cap!



  • #122
    legspin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Still waiting on an answer to how you can believe everything written in a 1400 year old book, but something written on a wiki is automatically suspect because anyone could have put anything they wanted in there...

    I'd say the OP has run away with his tale between his legs. Not that he had any real answers anyway.


  • #123
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    legspin wrote: »
    I'd say the OP has run away with his tale between his legs.
    That line should win a pullet surprise.


  • #124
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    legspin wrote: »
    I'd say the OP has run away with his tale between his legs. Not that he had any real answers anyway.

    He's thanked the post so clearly he agrees.


  • #125
    legspin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Yes I saw that.


    Rob, just for you...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_gGG8yOF78


  • #126
    Michael OBrien
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Michael OBrien


    It's not very Earth-shaped, now is it?

    Just a note on that claim. I did some research on it as I find the abrahamic religions have the nerve to claim their holy books 'predicted' a spherical earth, and they don't.
    The koran has a couple of passages that deal with the flattening of the earth for humans. The word in arabic for flatten has other meanings (which is typical in arabic) however NONE of these (stretch, roll out, etc) refer to the ostrich EGG, only the practice of the ostrich flattening the area where she buries the eggs. Some muslims (not all) nowadays take that and distort it to mean egg (heck some have even gone further and left out the ostrich completely and tried to find an egg that looks more like the earth and will go with reptiles if they think the listener is credulous enough. Some even try to take "roll out" and leave out the "out" part and say it just means roll, which makes no sense in context.

    On a side note, I do respect some more reasonable reinterpretations of these passages to mean "land' rather than planet earth and that the passage is a metaphor for making the land habitable for humans. It is still bull, but at least it is not an insult to my intelligence and avoids the 'science' claim completely.

    My view of these types of muslim apologetics, don't believe a single word out of their mouths, check every fact and don't give them the slightest credibility. Most take their knowledge from known liars like Zakir Naik, who make Kent Hovind seem credible.


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  • #127
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Michael OBrien wrote: »
    ................
    My view of these types of muslim apologetics, don't believe a single word out of their mouths, check every fact and don't give them the slightest credibility. Most take their knowledge from known liars like Zakir Naik, who make Kent Hovind seem credible.


    Later I must see this marvel, and ponder on its truth.


  • #128
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Pretty much all religious have a extremely dark side, look at the blood on the hands of the christian faith,

    Basically no religion is innocent,

    And Islam currently seems to be associated with the most barbaric of acts and human rights abuses. Nothing Christianity hasn't done in the past, but reading posts like this, or this leaves me with very little sympathy for Islam in any shape or form.

    While I'm all in favour of freedom of religious expression, in my opinion any religion that considers apostasy a serious crime deserves to be openly vilified until they stand away from that position, not least because it is a denial of the right to freedom of religious expression of others.


  • #129
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,353 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    I love these threads!

    'I believe some stuff. Why don't you believe it? I have a book!'

    :D


  • #130
    ///3power
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭///3power


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057239675


  • #131
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    ///3power wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057239675
    Could you summarise that for us in, say 50 words or fewer? Keep that up, even the Islam forum mods will start deleting your posts as against the charter.

    The OP sounds like a variation on the "you don't know enough to reject it" argument. You know, the one that implies that you have to accept a proposition because you're not an expert on the topic. Well, how much do I need to know about Islam to reject it? About as much as a Muslim needs to know to accept it, which is the very basics: the five pillars of Islam. Or is it twelve? Depends on whether it's Sunni or Shia you're talking about.

    Either way, I would officially be a Muslim if I accepted them, but in my case I looked at them, went "I don't think so", and that was that. Just as it was for Christianity (all flavours), Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhiism. Shinto looks like fun, and doesn't seem to require anything from me, but it kind-of leaves you wondering what the point is. Maybe I don't know enough about it to reject it ..? :o

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



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  • #132
    Penny 4 Thoughts
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Penny 4 Thoughts


    bnt wrote: »
    Could you summarise that for us in, say 50 words or fewer? Keep that up, even the Islam forum mods will start deleting your posts as against the charter.

    The Quran said something very vague and unspecific and hundreds of years later some Muslims have chosen to retroactively assert that these very vague claims were actually talking about specific modern discoveries, such as dark matter or lowest point on Earth, despite no Muslim (or anyone else) actually gaining this knowledge from the Quran.

    Hope that was within 50 words :)


  • #133
    ///3power
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭///3power


    You're not doing yourself any favour lying to yourself


  • #134
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    ///3power wrote: »
    You're not doing yourself any favour lying to yourself

    One question, and no lies please seeing as you are so vocal in your supposed opposition to them: Why do you continue to post such rubbish and lies?

    It's not exactly painting you in a good light nor is it your religion (though painting islam in a good light is like cleaning out the Augean stables), the fact that you obviously need to lie in the service of your religion, and that you think that lying about your religion is the only way to convince us that its right. For if there were a god and allah were its name, then no lies would be necessary.


  • #135
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,353 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    For if there were a god and allah were its name, then no lies would be necessary.

    Oh. 'Allah'. Not 'Alan'.

    Makes sense now...

    :o



  • #136
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ///3power wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057239675
    Say what you like about islam, but by golly, islamic names are great.

    I'd love to be named "Bismi'Allahi Ar-rahmani Ar-raheem". Hell, even if I could pronounce it correctly :)


  • #137
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    robindch wrote: »
    Say what you like about islam, but by golly, islamic names are great.

    I'd love to be named "Bismi'Allahi Ar-rahmani Ar-raheem". Hell, even if I could pronounce it correctly :)

    I remember as a kid being dissapointed when Siddig El Fadil started to go by the stage name Alexander Siddig something like half way through Deep Space Nine, I was thinking why should someone have to change their name like that? But then I found out that Siddig El Fadil was a stage name anyway and his full name was Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi! :eek: I'm doubley dissapointed he didn't stick with that, because it was freakin' epic.


  • #138
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Links234 wrote: »
    I remember as a kid being dissapointed when Siddig El Fadil started to go by the stage name Alexander Siddig something like half way through Deep Space Nine, I was thinking why should someone have to change their name like that? But then I found out that Siddig El Fadil was a stage name anyway and his full name was Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi! :eek: I'm doubley dissapointed he didn't stick with that, because it was freakin' epic.
    Jaysus, that'd have taken up the whole DS9 credit sequence!


  • #139
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Links234 wrote: »
    [...] his full name was Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi! [...]
    They don't f*ck around with names, do they?

    *impressed*


  • #140
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    kylith wrote: »
    Jaysus, that'd have taken up the whole DS9 credit sequence!

    That credit sequence went on long enough as it was :o


  • #141
    Serena Tender Xylophone
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Serena Tender Xylophone


    Doooooo doo doo doo.... doo doo doo.... doo doo doo doo.... doo dooo


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  • #142
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Have ye seen the DS9 clock? I want it so badly.

    clock1.png


  • #143
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Doooooo doo doo doo.... doo doo doo.... doo doo doo doo.... doo dooo

    Did Allah give you permission to sing?


  • #144
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    DS9 was always my favourite Trek ;)


  • #145
    Serena Tender Xylophone
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Serena Tender Xylophone


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Did Allah give you permission to sing?

    There's arguments for and against it being haram, apparently


  • #146
    Dublin Red Devil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭Dublin Red Devil


    Personally I am an Atheist. So I know all religious are nonsense. Islam, Christianity, Judaism. take your pick. All complete and utter nonsense.


  • #147
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    We all know what the one true religion is ;)

    TrekChurch.jpg

    ALL POWER TO THE ENGINES.


  • #148
    Dublin Red Devil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭Dublin Red Devil


    Family_Guy%20Peter%20Griffin%20At%20His%20Church%20Of%20The%20Fonz,The%20Father%20The%20Son%20And%20The%20Holy%20Fonz.gif

    "Fonzie be with you"

    Ay!


  • #149
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    bluewolf wrote:
    There's arguments for and against it being haram, apparently

    That doesn't answer my question.


  • #150
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    The sad thing about this "discussion" is that it's all words. If you are prepared to adopt or change a religion - with all that implies - on the basis of words alone, then you are horribly gullible and vulnerable to having your trust abused. Look at the Middle East today, the Sunni/Shia conflicts tearing Syria and Iraq apart, and try to rationalise that away. "They're not true Muslims", eh? :eek:

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



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  • #151
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ///3power wrote: »
    If a religion could literally, scientifically, mathematically and historically prove the existence of God, would you believe?
    Not sure what this has to do with the Q in the title but if it could be proved, then of course I would believe, it would then be a fact, not believing would be silly. Are you more asking would I worship? If you were, then nope, there seems to be no benefit and lots of negatives. I have enough sh1t on my plate. I don't believe now as there is no evidence whatsoever that even hints at their being a singular creator, not even hints, as in nowt, nothing, zilch. But that's just me,


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