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Way to go Sinn Fein

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Comments

  • #1652
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Particularly when it is true and replicated throughout the country
    Anecdote to generalization to accepted fact?
    Didn't see that one coming.


  • #1653
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Anecdote to generalization to accepted fact?
    Didn't see that one coming.

    Come on. Keep up.

    How many times have we heard politicians say "I met a woman in the shopping centre who has 36 kids and they took away her medical card, free apartment block etc "

    Isn't that how we elect politicians


  • #1654
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,891 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    What difference would it make if they declared them or not, even assuming they are not doing so? They are donating to the party they are already in so it's hardly a conflict of interest.

    What I was getting at is that I don't actually believe that SF TD's are living on the average industrial wage. No doubt anyone making donations in the Galway tent years ago would claim there was no conflict of interest. That is not the point, everything is required to be declared. The fact that no declarations have been recorded points to the fact that no donations were actually made.

    http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/


    The Standards in Public Office Commission is an independent body established in December 2001 by the Standards in Public Office Act 2001. It has six members and is chaired by a former Judge of the High Court. It has supervisory roles under three separate pieces of legislation. Its functions include supervising the disclosure of interests and compliance with tax clearance requirements, the disclosure of donations and election expenditure and the expenditure of state funding received by political parties.


  • #1655
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Come on. Keep up.

    How many times have we heard politicians say "I met a woman in the shopping centre who has 36 kids and they took away her medical card, free apartment block etc "

    Isn't that how we elect politicians
    So you are trying to back up something I think is unsupported waffle by using something which we both agree is unsupported waffle?
    Good luck there.


  • #1656
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What I was getting at is that I don't actually believe that SF TD's are living on the average industrial wage. No doubt anyone making donations in the Galway tent years ago would claim there was no conflict of interest.
    How is a developer giving bribe money to Fianna Fail the equivalent of a Sinn Fein TD giving money to Sinn Fein?
    That's a mind bogglingly worthless analogy.


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  • #1657
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So you are trying to back up something I think is unsupported waffle by using something which we both agree is unsupported waffle?
    Good luck there.

    Just because you don't like what you read you call it waffle. Get out of your ivory tower and talk to lower paid working people. You will find that they are fed up more of the welfare scum than they are of wealthy people who worked hard for their wealth, providing jobs in the process.


  • #1658
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    How is a developer giving bribe money to Fianna Fail the equivalent of a Sinn Fein TD giving money to Sinn Fein?
    That's a mind bogglingly worthless analogy.

    Because they say they donate all but the 35K they live on to the party and make it as if they are great. We can not see they do this only there word

    as allreadt said by dxhound2005


  • #1659
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Was it him or the other Donegal TD that said he would not pay the Household Charge? It would be an odd state of affairs to have a Minister for Finance breaking tax law. A number of other SF TD's possibly including Mary Lou said they would not be paying either. We need an update as to what happened to them.

    The whole SF party funding is an area that should come under scrutiny. Any investigate journalists out there? Standards in Public Office commission requires that individuals who make donations to political parties and parties who receive donations have to declare them. I can't find any record of either eventhough SF is supposed to be getting large donations from their politicians.

    I'm not an investigative journalist, but do use Google.
    Sinn Féin’s Mary Lou McDonald has admitted she has decided to pay the controversial property tax — despite asking families to oppose the new levy.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mcdonald-will-pay-property-tax-she-opposes-232538.html


  • #1660
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What I was getting at is that I don't actually believe that SF TD's are living on the average industrial wage. No doubt anyone making donations in the Galway tent years ago would claim there was no conflict of interest. That is not the point, everything is required to be declared. The fact that no declarations have been recorded points to the fact that no donations were actually made.

    They often use the money to pay for a constituency office and a member of staff; this wouldn't go through central party funds.

    There's plenty of reasons to have a pop at Sinn Féin, that isn't one of them. I was a member of them long enough and that's one thing they're very strict on.

    It's a correct and admirable policy that excludes careerist bastards for the most part and also puts the rep on the same level as their average constituent.


  • #1661
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    FTA69 wrote: »
    They often use the money to pay for a constituency office and a member of staff; this wouldn't go through central party funds.

    There's plenty of reasons to have a pop at Sinn Féin, that isn't one of them. I was a member of them long enough and that's one thing they're very strict on.

    It's a correct and admirable policy that excludes careerist bastards for the most part and also puts the rep on the same level as their average constituent.

    And so what they say they get paid and live on the same wage as the average industrial person whick I would take as pay for everything out of that. The whole reason people are taking a pop as you say is because this is one thing they hype up to show there better than everone else.


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  • #1662
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    As a taxpayer I resent any of my taxes going to fund the activities of political parties - pay TD's / Ministers a salary equivalent to middle grade public servants and allow them only vouched expenses within set parameters. All donations to parties should have to be declared and transparently accounted for. Let them fundraise or whatever to promote their political ideals - why should taxpayers help to promote the politics of SF/FF/FG or any of them through their taxes ? I never paid up to any political party fundraising nor do I intend to.


  • #1663
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What I was getting at is that I don't actually believe that SF TD's are living on the average industrial wage . No doubt anyone making donations in the Galway tent years ago would claim there was no conflict of interest. That is not the point, everything is required to be declared. The fact that no declarations have been recorded points to the fact that no donations were actually made.


    While not a TD, Martin McGuinness would certainly be up there in a similar role.

    Again, quick Google revealed this.
    Sinn Fein has released a bank statement which it says shows the monthly income and expenditure of its Irish presidential candidate Martin McGuinness.

    Mr McGuinness said, if elected, he would only take the average wage and give the rest back to the Irish people.

    On Monday, another candidate, Mary Davis released her P60 to show her earnings in 2010.

    The president will receive a salary of 249,014 euros.

    Martin McGuinness said he believed it was "high time those at the top shared the pain and showed a bit of empathy with the rest of us".

    He claims he receives an income of £370.38 per week after tax.

    This is backed up by the manager of the bank of Ireland's branch on the strand Road, Derry.
    In a letter from the Bank of Ireland's Strand Road branch in Londonderry, dated 4 October 2011, commercial branch manager, Sean Hegarty says Sinn Fein currently pay £1,605 into the account of Mr McGuinness and his wife, Bernadette.

    Expenditure

    Mr Hegarty also said that apart from "very occasional expense funds, this appears to be the only funds received into this account on a regular basis".

    Sinn Fein also released a bank statement for Mr McGuinness and his wife, which details their expenditure from 31 March 2011 until 27 September 2011.

    During the period, Mr McGuinness received a monthly payment from Sinn Fein into the account, which ranged from £1,515 on 21 April to £1,605 in August and September
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-15176437

    Lots of transparency there.

    You not 'believing in it' is irrelevant.


  • #1664
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    martingriff wrote: »
    And so what they say they get paid and live on the same wage as the average industrial person whick I would take as pay for everything out of that.
    But it has already been made clear the DO live on the average industrial wage. Why are you questioning this? Or are you questioning that this gives them a better handle on the fate of the average Irish person than FF or FG TDs who often don't even need the TD wage?


  • #1665
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    Let them fundraise or whatever to promote their political ideals - why should taxpayers help

    Because the alternative is a system like the American one, where they use the Golden Rule to decide on policies: the guys with the Gold make the Rules.


  • #1666
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    martingriff wrote: »
    And so what they say they get paid and live on the same wage as the average industrial person whick I would take as pay for everything out of that. The whole reason people are taking a pop as you say is because this is one thing they hype up to show there better than everone else.

    They rightly advertise it as proof they 1) aren't in it for financial reasons and 2) as a genuine sign they wish to remain on par with the people and 3) to provide their party with extra resources to grow it.

    Would you prefer they all lived the high life or something?


  • #1667
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    As a taxpayer I resent any of my taxes going to fund the activities of political parties - pay TD's / Ministers a salary equivalent to middle grade public servants and allow them only vouched expenses within set parameters. All donations to parties should have to be declared and transparently accounted for. Let them fundraise or whatever to promote their political ideals - why should taxpayers help to promote the politics of SF/FF/FG or any of them through their taxes ? I never paid up to any political party fundraising nor do I intend to.
    Are you proposing then that all TDs receive the average industrial wage?


  • #1668
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    FTA69 wrote: »
    They rightly advertise it as proof they 1) aren't in it for financial reasons and 2) as a genuine sign they wish to remain on par with the people and 3) to provide their party with extra resources to grow it.

    Would you prefer they all lived the high life or something?

    No and in fairness I do not care if they took the who amount. I am more concerned with there policies and to me other than saying no to everything and there to me they are severly lacking. (So are other parties)

    In saying that however they advertised they only live in it yes but they take the full amount so it is of no value to the state they give it to the party is a load of crock in my opinion. If they want to show they can live on it then only take that amount by having only that much taken out and pay the rest back to the coountries coffers. But to have it advertised the way they said it and how they do it is 2 different things. I for one do not really take them at there word.


  • #1669
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,251 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    To all shinners. You guys keep talking about France and a wealth tax.

    Oh look.

    France Hikes Taxes, "Wildly Inaccurate Projections" Hilarity Ensue

    Somewhat famously, Hollande has raised income tax, VAT and corporation tax since he was elected two years ago... and government forecast EUR30bn of extra tax income. As The BBC reports, the actual amount gained... EUR16bn (leaving a EUR14bn black hole) and forcing The Court of Auditors to proclaim that "forecasts of tax revenue in 2013 were so wildly inaccurate that they cast doubt on its forecasts for this year."

    It ain't working out so well.


  • #1670
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,086 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    They got an extra €16bn in tax and that is meant to be bad because it was not what they forecast?

    A bit like the Tories in the UK dumping the top rate tax as it *only* brought in £1bn per year!


  • #1671
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Are you proposing then that all TDs receive the average industrial wage?

    I said a middle grade public service wage


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  • #1672
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It ain't working out so well.
    So they got 16bn in extra revenue instead of 0bn.
    Not seeing the disaster there TBH.


  • #1673
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    To all shinners. You guys keep talking about France and a wealth tax.

    Oh look.

    France Hikes Taxes, "Wildly Inaccurate Projections" Hilarity Ensue




    It ain't working out so well.

    Still raised 16 b. though which gives one pause for thought !


  • #1674
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    martingriff wrote: »
    If they want to show they can live on it then only take that amount by having only that much taken out and pay the rest back to the coountries coffers.
    No, they are different things.
    You can show you can live on the average wage by living on it. Not by where you give the rest of the cash.


  • #1675
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    martingriff wrote: »
    No and in fairness I do not care if they took the who amount. I am more concerned with there policies and to me other than saying no to everything and there to me they are severly lacking. (So are other parties)

    In saying that however they advertised they only live in it yes but they take the full amount so it is of no value to the state they give it to the party is a load of crock in my opinion. If they want to show they can live on it then only take that amount by having only that much taken out and pay the rest back to the coountries coffers. But to have it advertised the way they said it and how they do it is 2 different things. I for one do not really take them at there word.

    Sinn Féin never said they take the average industrial because they were aiding in the retention of state funds; it's an expression of sincerity toward the average person and also a barrier on careerism.

    Sin é. You should be encouraging other parties to do the same, not moaning at Sinn Féin.


  • #1676
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No, they are different things.
    You can show you can live on the average wage by living on it. Not by where you give the rest of the cash.

    They should still declare it as political donations though. It is the law of the land either everyone complies or no one complies . It is not as if it a difficult procedure to follow.


  • #1677
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    marienbad wrote: »
    They should still declare it as political donations though. It is the law of the land either everyone complies or no one complies . It is not as if it a difficult procedure to follow.
    I don't really know, but if any other TD hires a secretary or something, which is how SF appear to do it, is that counted as a political donation?
    If not then they aren't doing anything different from any other party.


  • #1678
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    FTA69 wrote: »
    They rightly advertise it as proof they 1) aren't in it for financial reasons and 2) as a genuine sign they wish to remain on par with the people and 3) to provide their party with extra resources to grow it.

    Out of interest, do you know if there is there a bar on them getting any income from other sources while being in elected office?


  • #1679
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Because the alternative is a system like the American one, where they use the Golden Rule to decide on policies: the guys with the Gold make the Rules.

    So what do you suggest to someone who has no interest or wish to have their taxes used to further the ideology of parties which they do not wish to support - is it a case of pay up and be quiet ???


  • #1680
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Out of interest, do you know if there is there a bar on them getting any income from other sources while being in elected office?

    No there isn't. Adams makes money off his books and I remember Arthur Morgan had an interest in a catering firm in Louth if I remember correctly. The likes of Aengus Ó Snódaigh or Jack Crowe wouldn't have had a bob though.


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  • #1681
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Sinn Féin never said they take the average industrial because they were aiding in the retention of state funds; it's an expression of sincerity toward the average person and also a barrier on careerism.

    Sin é. You should be encouraging other parties to do the same, not moaning at Sinn Féin.

    As I said I do not care what they paid I WAS A PROMISE THEY HAD but they do take it home so they give it to the party machine I bet if a FF, FG ot Labour politican did this people would be arguing the very same think I am against SF and that would be hypocracy. That is my problem with it. It is not a barrier to careerism to be paid more. It should be a positive to better yourself and try to get it. And as I said this one thing is not stopping me from voting them it there lack of policies I do not go for a party because they vote no to the goverment allways and promise to give me back money to me. How are you going to give me back money while keeping everything else I need to an acceptable level.


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