Way to go Sinn Fein

Bannasidhe

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Oh yes, I agree austerity has worked, we were living far beyond our means and wages needed to come down across the board.
My post was in response to a poster who said the public service should be capped at a level equivalent to the average industrial wage.

A poster said a State of Emergency could have been declared and wages capped for the duration as part of a discussion on actions government could have taken immediately which would have demonstrated their intention to lead by example .

Please do not take what I said out of context to try and bolster your points.

Woodville56

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So you haven't answered, whining "hyperbole" instead. How predictable.
Now, please explain, short of what I outlined above, how you plan to prevent all public employees from "wasting your tax" on voluntary donations from their own salaries to political parties.

Where did I say public servants should be prevented contributing from their own salaries by way of voluntary donations to political parties - show me , cos I didn't say that !! What I did say is that in principle I have a problem with the taxes I pay being used to support political parties and by inference indirectly supporting their policies with which I don't agree ! I have no issue with what public servants or anyone else for that matter does with their personal salaries ! What I said was that Politicians should be paid a standard mid public service salary and any related expenses they incur refunded by way of a predetermined scale if allowances.

Iwasfrozen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

A poster said a State of Emergency could have been declared and wages capped for the duration as part of a discussion on actions government could have taken immediately which would have demonstrated their intention to lead by example .

Please do not take what I said out of context to try and bolster your points.

Actually I wasn't talking about you but since you did mention you would you kindly say how much you think the government should have lowered their own wages by? To what level?

Please and thank you.

Dan_Solo

Woodville56 wrote: »

Where did I say public servants should be prevented contributing from their own salaries by way of voluntary donations to political parties - show me , cos I didn't say that !! What I did say is that in principle I have a problem with the taxes I pay being used to support political parties and by inference indirectly supporting their policies with which I don't agree ! I have no issue with what public servants or anyone else for that matter does with their personal salaries ! What I said was that Politicians should be paid a standard mid public service salary and any related expenses they incur refunded by way of a predetermined scale if allowances.

OK, I think I get you now.
We were talking about Sinn Fein TDs and their voluntary donations to party related activities when you decided to moan about your taxes going towards any political activity, which has nothing at all to do with Sinn Fein specifically.
My apologies for assuming you were posting on topic.

Bannasidhe

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Actually I wasn't talking about you but since you did mention you would you kindly say how much you think the government should have lowered their own wages by? To what level?

Please and thank you.

Ordinary TDs 50k (plus, grudgingly, 10k for committee work) - currently €92,672 - since 2010 - plus €20,350 pa for constituency office, plus travel and accommodation allowance which can range from €9,000 for less than 25k from Dublin to €34,065 for those more than 360 km. A voucher system is now in place for expenses which is a start. TDs also get 'petty cash' of 100 a month.

Junior ministers 75 k - currently €130,000 with, apparently top ups of €17,205 plus allowance as above.

Ceann Comhairle and Leas-Cheann Comhairle 90k - from what I can determine their salaries are the same as that of a junior minister

Ministers 110 k - currently 150 k plus allowances.

Taoiseach 150 k (since 2013 it's been €185,350 due to Haddington Rd agreement - before that it was 200,000- plus €118,981 in expenses/allowance)

all relevant expenses to be met by reimbursement on provision of receipts - this to include rent on constituency offices. TDs secretaries to be placed on fixed term contracts and paid at clerical officer grade.

'Leaders allowances' and party whip allowances to be dispensed with.


Pension to be capped at 50k - only 1 per person and payable at statutory retirement age.

When the economy picks up - it can be revisited but I certainly think their wages should be set by an outside independent body (like the Troika ).

You are welcome.

comongethappy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ordinary TDs 50k (plus, grudgingly, 10k for committee work) - currently €92,672 - since 2010 - plus €20,350 pa for constituency office, plus travel and accommodation allowance which can range from €9,000 for less than 25k from Dublin to €34,065 for those more than 360 km. A voucher system is now in place for expenses which is a start. TDs also get 'petty cash' of 100 a month.

Junior ministers 75 k - currently €130,000 with, apparently top ups of €17,205 plus allowance as above.

Ceann Comhairle and Leas-Cheann Comhairle 90k - from what I can determine their salaries are the same as that of a junior minister

Ministers 110 k - currently 150 k plus allowances.

Taoiseach 150 k (since 2013 it's been €185,350 due to Haddington Rd agreement - before that it was 200,000- plus €118,981 in expenses/allowance)

all relevant expenses to be met by reimbursement on provision of receipts - this to include rent on constituency offices. TDs secretaries to be placed on fixed term contracts and paid at clerical officer grade.

'Leaders allowances' and party whip allowances to be dispensed with.


Pension to be capped at 50k - only 1 per person and payable at statutory retirement age.

When the economy picks up - it can be revisited but I certainly think their wages should be set by an outside independent body (like the Troika ).

You are welcome.

Grand.

0.01% down

Just 99.99% of the deficit to go.

Any ideas?

Bannasidhe

comongethappy wrote: »

Grand.

0.01% down

Just 99.99% of the deficit to go.

Any ideas?

Are you being obtuse or are you missing the point I keep making about leading by example?

Should we comment on every cut and tax increase and levy introduction and stealth tax increase in the same manner you just did?

Cut the dole to 188 - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Cut discretionary medical health cards - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

The LPT - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Cut SNAs - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Jobs freeze - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Water charges - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

comongethappy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you being obtuse or are you missing the point I keep making about leading by example?

Should we comment on every cut and tax increase and levy introduction and stealth tax increase in the same manner you just did?

Cut the dole to 188 - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Cut discretionary medical health cards - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

The LPT - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Cut SNAs - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Jobs freeze - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Water charges - well, what about the rest of the deficit?

Well, you & the "left" keep banging on that there 'is another way'.

Yet always fail to articulate what that is.

You'd think that if someone had no answer they would stop complaining.

DubVelo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ordinary TDs 50k (plus, grudgingly, 10k for committee work) - currently €92,672 - since 2010 - plus €20,350 pa for constituency office, plus travel and accommodation allowance which can range from €9,000 for less than 25k from Dublin to €34,065 for those more than 360 km. A voucher system is now in place for expenses which is a start. TDs also get 'petty cash' of 100 a month.

Junior ministers 75 k - currently €130,000 with, apparently top ups of €17,205 plus allowance as above.

Ceann Comhairle and Leas-Cheann Comhairle 90k - from what I can determine their salaries are the same as that of a junior minister

Ministers 110 k - currently 150 k plus allowances.

Taoiseach 150 k (since 2013 it's been €185,350 due to Haddington Rd agreement - before that it was 200,000- plus €118,981 in expenses/allowance)

all relevant expenses to be met by reimbursement on provision of receipts - this to include rent on constituency offices. TDs secretaries to be placed on fixed term contracts and paid at clerical officer grade.

'Leaders allowances' and party whip allowances to be dispensed with.


Pension to be capped at 50k - only 1 per person and payable at statutory retirement age.

When the economy picks up - it can be revisited but I certainly think their wages should be set by an outside independent body (like the Troika ).

You are welcome.

Far too generous.

Equal flat rate for all of them, indexed to the national average wage. Should be about €45k.

Bannasidhe

DubVelo wrote: »

Far too generous.

Equal flat rate for all of them, indexed to the national average wage. Should be about €45k.

Suggest that and people lose their minds.

Really.

Bizarre but true.

Bannasidhe

comongethappy wrote: »

Well, you & the "left" keep banging on that there 'is another way'.

Yet always fail to articulate what that is.

You'd think that if someone had no answer they would stop complaining.

What the hell are you on about?

I was asked how much I would cut TD etc salaries to - keeping in mind the outcry when I suggested using the average industrial wage as the basis I came up figures that I think are realistic and now it's all ohhhh the left don't have a solution bs from you.

I articulated the fact that a great many people in this country do not believe our elected representative are feeling the pinch of the austerity programme they are advocating.

I articulated a solution - serious cuts to public representative income from the exchequer so they are seen to lead by example (albeit with what is still a good salary).

Do try and keep your impulse to snipe about the big bad bogey man left under control yeah as it wasn't the left that got us into this mess in the first place.

comongethappy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What the hell are you on about?

I was asked how much I would cut TD etc salaries to - keeping in mind the outcry when I suggested using the average industrial wage as the basis I came up figures that I think are realistic and now it's all ohhhh the left don't have a solution bs from you.

I articulated the fact that a great many people in this country do not believe our elected representative are feeling the pinch of the austerity programme they are advocating.

I articulated a solution - serious cuts to public representative income from the exchequer so they are seen to lead by example (albeit with what is still a good salary).

Do try and keep your impulse to snipe about the big bad bogey man left under control yeah as it wasn't the left that got us into this mess in the first place.

It was indeed populist overspending that got Ireland into its mess, all cheerled by the trade unions.

And you have just articulated an imagined hypothetical which in this universe wouldn't happen.... And wouldn't fix the problem anyway.

Might as well be a leprechaun tax for the plausibility it has.

Idbatterim

It was indeed populist overspending that got Ireland into its mess, all cheerled by the trade unions.[/QUOTE The good old trade unions, I would have about as much time for them, as FF! Another shower who I wish would just disappear!

Banjo String

comongethappy wrote: »

It was indeed populist overspending that got Ireland into its mess, all cheerled by the trade unions.

And you have just articulated an imagined hypothetical which in this universe wouldn't happen.... And wouldn't fix the problem anyway.

Might as well be a leprechaun tax for the plausibility it has.

Well they've taxed the dog, the TV, the car, the road via tolls, carbon, water, the gaff, annual credit card tax, and many more which I can't be arsed typing.


They're looking around wondering what to tax next, and you're giving them ideas......


Get.

Out.

Bannasidhe

comongethappy wrote: »

It was indeed populist overspending that got Ireland into its mess, all cheerled by the trade unions.

And you have just articulated an imagined hypothetical which in this universe wouldn't happen.... And wouldn't fix the problem anyway.

Might as well be a leprechaun tax for the plausibility it has.

Populist =! left.

By the by -since so many here seem to believe the left is unattractive to the Irish electorate surely if the left wished to be 'popular' it would stop being left. Like the Labour Party did. Oh, that didn't work out so well for them though...

There is no reason it cannot happen if the political will is there.

Tell me exactly why it is not plausible - without being sneering or condescending if you can manage that?

dxhound2005

Dan_Solo wrote: »

OK, I think I get you know.
We were talking about Sinn Fein TDs and their voluntary donations to party related activities when you decided to moan about your taxes going towards any political activity, which has nothing at all to do with Sinn Fein specifically.
My apologies for assuming you were posting on topic.

Who said it is voluntary?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Who said it is voluntary?

Its not compulsory to join the party.

comongethappy

Banjo String wrote: »

Well they've taxed the dog, the TV, the car, the road via tolls, carbon, water, the gaff, annual credit card tax, and many more which I can't be arsed typing.


They're looking around wondering what to tax next, and you're giving them ideas......


Get.

Out.

Dept of finance are all over this forum no doubt!

I suppose though its all moot.

The primary deficit will be eliminated by the end of this year with the possibility of a surplus.
Then a return to a small surplus next year.

This being very bad news for SF as it shows their bleating for the last 4 years proved false.

Woodville56

Dan_Solo wrote: »

OK, I think I get you know.
We were talking about Sinn Fein TDs and their voluntary donations to party related activities when you decided to moan about your taxes going towards any political activity, which has nothing at all to do with Sinn Fein specifically.
My apologies for assuming you were posting on topic.

If you mean was I up for cheerleading the tiocfaidh ar la crowd for the last 3 days and being abusive to anyone who disagreed , yeah I suppose I was off topic alright ! And now that you mention moaning about taxes - now there's something you'd never find Gerry or Mary Lou or Pearse moaning about would ya ?? Didn't I hear the same Mr Doherty say on radio interview recently that he didn't pay his property tax ?? Well I never !! Top up party funds ok but nothing left for the auld house tax !! I'm gone off topic again afraid - must remember SF don't like answering any hard questions !!

DubVelo

Banjo String wrote: »

Its not compulsory to join the party.

Yet...

Bannasidhe

DubVelo wrote: »

Yet...

:rolleyes:

ElizaT33

I've believed more of Sinn Fein's aspirations for a better future for this country of ours than current Government for the last 10 years! We've been 'sold' to the EU ...... something our forefathers lost their lives fighting for our freedom from England for FFS

Banjo String

DubVelo wrote: »

Yet...

Could you explain what this means?

DubVelo

Banjo String wrote: »

Could you explain what this means?

Just kidding, don't worry.

Bannasidhe

comongethappy wrote: »

This being very bad news for SF as it shows their bleating for the last 4 years proved false.

Are the people who are becoming homeless also 'bleating'?

What about those parents of seriously ill children losing their medical health cards - are they 'bleating' too?

Unemployed? Bleating apparently.

Children had to emigrate? Stop bleating.

John Bruton says austerity to last 10 more years - ffs John. Stop bleating and get with the turning the corner programme you damn shinner you!!

Iwasfrozen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ordinary TDs 50k (plus, grudgingly, 10k for committee work) - currently €92,672 - since 2010 - plus €20,350 pa for constituency office, plus travel and accommodation allowance which can range from €9,000 for less than 25k from Dublin to €34,065 for those more than 360 km. A voucher system is now in place for expenses which is a start. TDs also get 'petty cash' of 100 a month.

Junior ministers 75 k - currently €130,000 with, apparently top ups of €17,205 plus allowance as above.

Ceann Comhairle and Leas-Cheann Comhairle 90k - from what I can determine their salaries are the same as that of a junior minister

Ministers 110 k - currently 150 k plus allowances.

Taoiseach 150 k (since 2013 it's been €185,350 due to Haddington Rd agreement - before that it was 200,000- plus €118,981 in expenses/allowance)

all relevant expenses to be met by reimbursement on provision of receipts - this to include rent on constituency offices. TDs secretaries to be placed on fixed term contracts and paid at clerical officer grade.

'Leaders allowances' and party whip allowances to be dispensed with.


Pension to be capped at 50k - only 1 per person and payable at statutory retirement age.

When the economy picks up - it can be revisited but I certainly think their wages should be set by an outside independent body (like the Troika ).

You are welcome.

So the ordinary TD has his salary cut by 45%? That's overly harsh don't you think? What other professional has experienced that level of cut?

Iwasfrozen

DubVelo wrote: »

Just kidding, don't worry.

Kidding does not compute.

DubVelo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So the ordinary TD has his salary cut by 45%? That's overly harsh don't you think? What other professional has experienced that level of cut?

There are many professionals in the past number of years who have experienced a 100% cut.

Banjo String

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So the ordinary TD has his salary cut by 45%? That's overly harsh don't you think? What other professional has experienced that level of cut?

Subjective term.

What are the relevant qualification requirements to be a TD? Is their much rigorous training Involved?

Iwasfrozen

DubVelo wrote: »

There are many professionals in the past number of years who have experienced a 100% cut.

So we should cut the number of TDs? I wouldn't be against that.

Banjo String wrote: »

Subjective term.

What are the relevant qualification requirements to be a TD? Is their much rigorous training Involved?

Don't ask questions you already know the answer to.