Way to go Sinn Fein

Iwasfrozen · 28-05-2014 12:13AM

Banjo String wrote: »

Irish Water consultants and a few (2k) not needed staff to 'run things' contracted in for the next twelve years (not months) lambasting you right now Disagree (prob)

Irish water is a joke, they should have just made it a tax.

Busted Flat. · 28-05-2014 12:21AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Irish water is a joke, they should have just made it a tax.

First arrest today of a protester, the boot is in, the election is over.
Happy Gilmore has got away with it. Big pension down the road, and some little side earner, by the EU or US for all his help.

Jester252 · 28-05-2014 12:26AM

davycc wrote: »

At long last, after 38 hours of counting, Matt Carthy has been elected as Sinn Féin MEP for Midlands North West.

That's four out of four a chairde!

Congratulations to Lynn, Liadh, Martina and Matt!

Sinn Féin Abú!:D

Might want to recheck your numbers.

Busted Flat. · 28-05-2014 12:29AM

Jester252 wrote: »

Might want to recheck your numbers.

There is 32 counties in Ireland.

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 12:31AM

Jester252 wrote: »

Might want to recheck your numbers.

I think he was referring to the UK results

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=European_Parliament_election%2C_2014_%28United_Kingdom%29#Results

Sinn Feinn finished just behind the lib-dems.

dxhound2005 · 28-05-2014 12:35AM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

First arrest today of a protester, the boot is in, the election is over.
Happy Gilmore has got away with it. Big pension down the road, and some little side earner, by the EU or US for all his help.

Up North if you don't pay your property tax this is what will happen to you. Martin gets away with it and gets a fools pardon from the people here who believe there is no property tax in the North.

If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
additional costs
your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
you could be made bankrupt
your home could be repossessed

In 2014 - 2015 court action was taken against 50,592 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.

Banjo String · 28-05-2014 07:50AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Up North if you don't pay your property tax this is what will happen to you. Martin gets away with it and gets a fools pardon from the people here who believe there is no property tax in the North.

If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
additional costs
your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
you could be made bankrupt
your home could be repossessed

In 2014 - 2015 court action was taken against 50,592 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.

4/4 MEPs elected.
157 seats on L.A councils

SF have a mandate from the people, it's time to stop the scaremongering.

In other news.

IRELAND faces at least a decade of austerity because of strict European rules on slashing debt, former Taoiseach John Bruton has warned.

FORMER Taoiseach John Bruton has suggested we will have to continue with austerity for at least the next 10 years.

That, he says, is a result of our approval in a referendum of the Fiscal Compact, an EU deal in which we agreed to keep within defined limits for our public spending – and for our debt. A former Minister for Finance and EU Ambassador to Washington, he is certainly well-placed to have a view – and it is our monstrous national debt that is the problem, he has suggested.

We simply need to keep paying it back to get down to the levels agreed. These may well be the rules. But they completely ignore the political reality.

The reality is that the Irish taxpayer remains crushed under the tremendous weight of the cost of paying for the debt from our bailed-out banks.

h the bank guarantee in September 2008, private bank debt became the country's public debt. The banks – largely – kept going and the euro was protected.

The reality is, the country has barely struggled on ever since, lurched into an EU-IMF bailout and series of austerity Budgets.

It is now almost two years since the famous EU communique on June 29, 2012, which suggested that the link be broken between bank debt and the nation's debts. It raised the hope that we would get help in dealing with the cost of bailing out the banks. We were a special case, we were told. After all, Ireland had helped protect the euro; we had done the Euro state some service.

The reality is that no help has come. Instead, public anger has – understandably and correctly – flared at the continued burden placed on our people in the form of savage tax increases, many of them by stealth, and savage cuts to benefits and public services.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/bruton-were-facing-another-10-years-of-austerity-30310189.html

You never did come back to me on USC, if Gerry Adams owned property in Louth, and what extra services someone at the top end of LPT enjoys over someone at the lower end.

The gig is up Dxhound.

twowheelsgood · 28-05-2014 08:40AM

Banjo String wrote: »

SF have a mandate from the people, it's time to stop the scaremongering.

There have been quite a few political parties around Europe who have also got a mandate yet some of us, including SF supporters I suspect, would be a little worried if this turns out to be more than a protest vote.

Banjo String wrote: »

In other news. (more austerity)

Hardly other news. History aside, if SF are in power after the next general election, which is a possibility, this is the environment in which they will have to operate. And if the people don't accept Labour "abandoning" their socialist ways because of practical realities why would the accept it from SF?

Red Nissan · 28-05-2014 10:03AM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

They did very well Will Cork get a SF lord mayor now?

Only over politically dead bodies.

Fianna F FG and a few turncoat "Independents" are forming an alliance which precludes SF in Cork City council.

We should know today.

SF are also being obstinate in not joining any alliance ~ so if FG the Indos and Others offered an alliance with SF they would be refused.

State of play at the moment, it's not progressive SF representation, it's the old disruptive and waste of a vote situation at this minute.

Kermit.de.frog · 28-05-2014 10:15AM

Sorry but Sinn Féin have a lot of growing up to do before any notions of them being a minority of any government.

People will vote for all sorts in elections that don't matter. A general election is a different kettle of fish. That not only goes for Sinn Féin but also the hodge podge of hard left nuts that were elected to councils up and down the country.

What this country needs is responsible government. And Sinn Féin does not fit that category and won't before the next election. They have maturing to do and changes to make to attract the votes that matter in a general election.

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 10:21AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What this country needs is responsible government. And Sinn Féin does not fit that category and won't before the next election. They have maturing to do and changes to make to attract the votes that matter in a general election.

I would doubt the people will throw away all the progress made in the last 3 years on a whim.

The next GE will be fought on the economy almost entirely.
SF will struggle there as they always tend to do.

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 10:29AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sorry but Sinn Féin have a lot of growing up to do before any notions of them being a minority of any government.

People will vote for all sorts in elections that don't matter. A general election is a different kettle of fish. That not only goes for Sinn Féin but also the hodge podge of hard left nuts that were elected to councils up and down the country.

What this country needs is responsible government. And Sinn Féin does not fit that category and won't before the next election. They have maturing to do and changes to make to attract the votes that matter in a general election.

What people don't seem to appreciate is that there is a significant left vote in this country and rather than resorting to childish name calling and polemic they should engage with that demographic.

The left is not going away nor is it extreme in Ireland- however, refusal to engage and the tactics of sneering dismissal will push parts of the left to extremes - as we have seen happen with the right in Europe.

At this point the constant name calling looks more and more like fear.

Idbatterim · 28-05-2014 10:30AM

I would doubt the people will throw away all the progress made in the last 3 years on a whim.

Seeing as all the parties other than FG are economic illiterates and the electorate may well throw their toys out of the pram, I wouldnt hold my breath!

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 10:36AM

comongethappy wrote: »

I would doubt the people will throw away all the progress made in the last 3 years on a whim.

The next GE will be fought on the economy almost entirely.
SF will struggle there as they always tend to do.

Progress or the continuing collapse of society?

Some people seem to this society is nothing but the feeder for the economy.
Other that the economy is there to feed society.

In Ireland the focus on the economy above all else is pushing too many people over the cliff. That is not progress. That is penury.

Criticise SF's policies all you want but if you think the majority of people believe FG/LP policies (which are really FF's policies) are working for the people rather than the EU you are very much mistaken. Even Enda has come to realise this

We need a middle ground. Perhaps SF cannot do that but we know FG/LP have utterly failed to do that.

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 10:40AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Seeing as all the parties other than FG are economic illiterates and the electorate may well throw their toys out of the pram, I wouldnt hold my breath!

FG are certainly illiterate when it comes to protecting the ordinary working people, but high literate when protecting the well-heeled elite.

By the by - as the current FG government's policies are actually FF's it would appear we have no basis for judging FG's actual policies bar their unimplemented 5 point plan...

Idbatterim · 28-05-2014 10:43AM

FG are certainly illiterate when it comes to protecting the ordinary working people, but high literate when protecting the well-heeled elite.

what percentage of the well heeled elite voted for FG last time round, just an educated guess would do, pretty much their entire vote would would be middle class...

FG are certainly illiterate when it comes to protecting the ordinary working people

well I am an ordinary working person and dont feel particularly protected...

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 10:48AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Progress or the continuing collapse of society?

Some people seem to this society is nothing but the feeder for the economy.
Other that the economy is there to feed society.

In Ireland the focus on the economy above all else is pushing too many people over the cliff. That is not progress. That is penury.

Criticise SF's policies all you want but if you think the majority of people believe FG/LP policies (which are really FF's policies) are working for the people rather than the EU you are very much mistaken. Even Enda has come to realise this

We need a middle ground. Perhaps SF cannot do that but we know FG/LP have utterly failed to do that.

hysterical claptrap.

"Destruction of society".

You'd think it was Beyond Thunderdome when you open your curtains in the morning.

You chose to ignore that at the time many people wanted the deficit closed even faster than it was.

A €3 billion per year deficit reduction plan WAS the middle ground!....

If you can recall 4yrs ago its exactly the middle ground between the Lefts: 'no intention to close the deficit' & the rights 'short sharp shock' of massive reductions in spending over a 1-2yr period.

It was a balance they felt best at the time.

And what do you know..... Primary deficit eliminated by yr end 2014, unemployment & emigration both down, consumer sentiment up.

And not a Mad Max dystopia in sight.

Idbatterim · 28-05-2014 10:55AM

If you can recall 4yrs ago its exactly the middle ground between the Lefts: 'no intention to close the deficit' & the rights 'short sharp shock' of massive reductions in spending over a 1-2yr period.

To be honest I would have preferred if they closed it quicker, how long it it humanly possible to psychologically deal with this shi*e?

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 11:00AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

To be honest I would have preferred if they closed it quicker, how long it it humanly possible to psychologically deal with this shi*e?

A lot of commentators both here & in the media preferred it.

Personally, I think the approach they ended up taking was the best.
The shock to the economy at large (not just the parts dependent on the public sector) of reducing a €12 bn deficit in 1-2 years would have been very considerable.

I seen an estimate at the time of approx 8% - 9% contraction in a single year.

Tough to climb out of.

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 11:01AM

comongethappy wrote: »

hysterical claptrap.

"Destruction of society".

You'd think it was Beyond Thunderdome when you open your curtains in the morning.

You chose to ignore that at the time many people wanted the deficit closed even faster than it was.

A €3 billion per year deficit reduction plan WAS the middle ground!....

If you can recall 4yrs ago its exactly the middle ground between the Lefts: 'no intention to close the deficit' & the rights 'short sharp shock' of massive reductions in spending over a 1-2yr period.

It was a balance they felt best at the time.

And what do you know..... Primary deficit eliminated by yr end 2014, unemployment & emigration both down, consumer sentiment up.

And not a Mad Max dystopia in sight.

'Hysterical Claptrap'

Again with the sneering attitude.

It really is getting pathetic at this point how time and time again this is the response.

Wake up and smell the coffee - people are angry and disillusioned and fed up of the childish name calling by pro-government supporters while tax after tax continued to be heaped upon the taxpayer.

Want to attract people away from the left? Then listen to what they are saying. Something the government has spectacularly failed to do

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 11:05AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

what percentage of the well heeled elite voted for FG last time round, just an educated guess would do, pretty much their entire vote would would be middle class...

well I am an ordinary working person and dont feel particularly protected...

The vote in the GE was a protest vote - to deny that is pointless.

You aren't protected by your government that is the point. They sit there with their basic salary of just over 90k a year plus another 50k in various expenses and preach austerity while never feeling the pinch themselves. They are the elite and they are feeling no pain.

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 11:06AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

'Hysterical Claptrap'

Again with the sneering attitude.

It really is getting pathetic at this point how time and time again this is the response.

Wake up and smell the coffee - people are angry and disillusioned and fed up of the childish name calling by pro-government supporters while tax after tax continued to be heaped upon the taxpayer.

Want to attract people away from the left? Then listen to what they are saying. Something the government has spectacularly failed to do

I'm not a government supporter, I didn't vote for them last time.

I do know that ever increasing debt is a solution to nothing.... (Just ask Greece)

However...... We are listening....

Please Bannashide.... Tell us YOUR solution.

Tell us how you would have eliminated the €12bn primary deficit between 2010 & 2014?
I assume you are against huge government debt & deficits that we & our kids have to repay?

I'm genuinely keen to hear.

Idbatterim · 28-05-2014 11:10AM

A lot of commentators both here & in the media preferred it.

Personally, I think the approach they ended up taking was the best.
The shock to the economy at large (not just the parts dependent on the public sector) of reducing a €12 bn deficit in 1-2 years would have been very considerable.

I seen an estimate at the time of approx 8% - 9% contraction in a single year.

Tough to climb out of.

I appreciate closing the gap quicker wasnt without its risks, there is still major money wasted in government procurement and the PS lump sum on retirement could have been taxed. I think there was some low hanging fruit left that they could have went after. On the flip side, because people know we have /had more austere budgets coming up than had or might have been the case, they are cautions, watching every cent, holding off on spending. Money argument aside, I would have preferred to earn less and just be out this sh**e sooner, sometimes money isnt everything.

You aren't protected by your government that is the point. They sit there with their basic salary of just over 90k a year plus another 50k in various expenses and preach austerity while never feeling the pinch themselves. They are the elite and they are feeling no pain.

I take your point to an extent, due to the levels of their earnings, but its not like they themselves havent taken pay cuts, pension cuts, tax hikes, are exempt from the LPT, water charges, increased Vat etc... I am sure they will have investments that fell or were annihilated in value if it were in banks.

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 11:19AM

comongethappy wrote: »

I'm not a government supporter, I didn't vote for them last time.

I do know that ever increasing debt is a solution to nothing.... (Just ask Greece)

However...... We are listening....

Please Bannashide.... Tell us YOUR solution.

Tell us how you would have eliminated the €12bn primary deficit between 2010 & 2014?

I'm genuinely keen to hear.

I don't know. I am not an economist - both then it seems even economists differ as to the solutions so expecting me to have a magic solution is a bit rich.

What I do know is people are hurting and the government elected to represent and protect the people has failed to do so and instead protected the very systems that brought us down.

Rather than engage with the people who are suggesting alternatives we hear sneering from the government benches.

Benches inhabited by people whose solutions are outlined in their election manifestos were so 'economically illiterate' that once in power they lay down and did what the Troika told them to do - a troika that even those at the centre of it admit had no interest in Ireland but were concerned with protecting the European banking system and the eurozone above all else. And now that the Troika is gone 'our' government is running around like headless chickens.

There has got to be a better way.

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 11:24AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't know. I am not an economist - both then it seems even economists differ as to the solutions so expecting me to have a magic solution is a bit rich.

What I do know is people are hurting and the government elected to represent and protect the people has failed to do so and instead protected the very systems that brought us down.

Rather than engaged with the people who are suggesting alternatives we hear sneering from the government benches.

Benches inhabited by people whose solutions are outlined in their election manifestos were so 'economically illiterate' that once in power they lay down and did what the Troika told them to do - a troika that even those at the centre of it admit had no interest in Ireland but were concerned with protecting the European banking system and the eurozone above all else. And now that the Troika is gone 'our' government is running around like headless chickens.

There has got to be a better way.

Indeed, people are hurting.
But let's not be naieve enough to think there was any other way.

You recognise there was a problem.
The Doctor fixes it.
You hate the doctor for his choice of medicine.
However you don't know of a better cure yourself.

Seeing as closing the government deficit WAS & is necessary, let's also be honest that its closure cannot be done painlessly.

The lefts "solution" would have caused more pain in the long run..... Unless they really do find the 'magic money tree' their plans are based upon.

Zubeneschamali · 28-05-2014 11:31AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What people don't seem to appreciate is that there is a significant left vote in this country

Firstly, no, the left wing vote here is pretty weak.

In 2007 for example, 110 of the 166 seats (66%) were FF/FG, centre-right parties. For an outside perspective, they are in ALDE (FF) and the EPP (FG) in the European Parliament - centre or centre-right.

In 2011, FG/FF got only 96 (57%), with Labour/SF/Socialists etc surging to 56 (33%), but much of that swing is former FF voters protesting the destruction of the country who are unable to vote FG because Civil War, not folks who are actually left wing. The Labour vote is back down below its 2007 level already, and FF are creeping back up.

Secondly, what bits of a left wing we have is generally focused on robbing other left wingers lunch money rather than opposing the Right.

Maybe with the rise of SF we will finally get a Left Wing party that can last for a political generation without splitting, being taken over by a rival party, or being seen to betray its voters when going into government with the Right.

Idbatterim · 28-05-2014 11:32AM

the standard of living here is still extremely high, of course it is human nature to just look at ones own circumstance and compare what you have now to then. But we have borrowed tens of billions to avoid serious austerity for any sector of society. Except those who were made unemployed and particularly if they had debts, they unfortunately would know all about serious austerity. Take a look at welfare here v say Britain or Germany for example, it is massively more than they pay out and they arent on a receiving end of a bail out.

Bannasidhe · 28-05-2014 11:32AM

comongethappy wrote: »

Indeed, people are hurting.
But let's be naieve enough to think there was any other way.

You recognise there was a problem.
The Doctor fixes it.
You hate the doctor for his choice of medicine.
However you don't know of a better cure yourself.

Seeing as closing the government deficit WAS & is necessary, let's also be honest that its closure cannot be done painlessly.

The lefts "solution" would have caused more pain in the long run..... Unless they really do find the 'magic money tree' their plans are based upon.

Of course there was another way. There is always another way.

And if the doctor was sitting there eating foie grass and chain smoking while lecturing me - I would seek a second opinion.

Of course it could not be done painlessly - but the pain could have bee more evenly distributed and should first have been felt by those leading the charge.

Was it not possible to declare a National Emergency and bring in legislation that all salaries/pensions paid out of the national purse were capped at the average industrial wage for the duration?

Is it too much to ask that a government leads by example?

comongethappy · 28-05-2014 11:42AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Of course there was another way. There is always another way.

And if the doctor was sitting there eating foie grass and chain smoking while lecturing me - I would seek a second opinion.

Of course it could not be done painlessly - but the pain could have bee more evenly distributed and should first have been felt by those leading the charge.

Was it not possible to declare a National Emergency and bring in legislation that all salaries/pensions paid out of the national purse were capped at the average industrial wage for the duration?

Is it too much to ask that a government leads by example?

So.... You don't know any solution..... But you do know there IS another solution.

Your idea of forcing through a "national emergency" all 280,000-ish public servants drop their pay to 36k .... Is fantastical, probably illegal & as pay & pensions make up the bulk of public spending, would make a far bigger negative economic impact than anything done to date.

So..... Your 'kinda' idea would cause more pain than anything FG & Lab could have come up with!

Your medicine would kill the patient..... But its 'another way' as you said.

Idbatterim · 28-05-2014 11:43AM

Bannasidhe, they could have created a new temporary tax band for "high earners" say 100k plus. To be rescinded once things improve, it simply is a questions of who takes the pain and when, nobody has gotten off scott free, some have just done much better than others..

Way to go Sinn Fein

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