Way to go Sinn Fein

mickydoomsux

Banjo String wrote: »

I love they way, when myths have been busted, and arguments ran out of, some folk resort to answers of this calibre.

Myths busted?

SF haven't done anything so far. There isn't anything to bust.

super_furry

I think Sinn Fein are here to stay and will continue to grow as a party but with Gerry Adams in charge, there will always be an upper limit to their success as there are people who just won't vote for him. I just can't ever see him as a Taoiseach while I think someone like Mary Lou McDonald could well be.

The whole issue over Jean McConville and his denial of IRA membership remains a big factor for many and for the majority just don't believe him when he insists he was never a member of the IRA, it remains a reason not to vote for him, as in: if he can't tell the truth about that, then how can you believe anything he says? If McDonald was the party leader, those issues pretty much disappear immediately.

Banjo String

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No doubt graciously paid for by the despised Brits.

Despised by Whom? A peace process has been in place for almost 20 years now. They're all getting along grand these days.

Keep up.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Myths busted?

SF haven't done anything so far. There isn't anything to bust.

Yet some around here claim they implement property taxes, and draconian state pensions and welfare.

All lies.

mickydoomsux

Banjo String wrote: »

Yet some around here claim they implement property taxes, and draconian state pensions and welfare.

All lies.

What they do or don't do up there doesn't count down here.

It's a separate jurisdiction, remember?

Banjo String

mickydoomsux wrote: »

What they do or don't do up there doesn't count down here.

It's a separate jurisdiction, remember?

Tell that to your buddies who try muddying the waters at every given opportunity.

mickydoomsux

Are SF actively opposing these charges in the North or are they using the "aw shucks, we're a minority member of the executive and it's a different situation up here anyway for ........ austerity reasons and stuff, so we're sorry. KTHNXBYE xoxo".

Dan_Solo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They oversee it. The poster was careful of their language. Oversee does not imply they have control.

Ah, so he wasn't really saying anything at all then. The Socialist Party and People Before Profit also "oversee" stuff in ROI. Let's blame them for everything FG/Lab do then, yes?

Banjo String

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Are SF actively opposing these charges in the North or are they using the "aw shucks, we're a minority member of the executive and it's a different situation up here anyway for ........ austerity reasons and stuff, so we're sorry.

I wouldn't oppose domestic rates down here either. Great value for money.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

KTHNXBYE xoxo".

Are you alright?????

mickydoomsux

Banjo String wrote: »

I wouldn't oppose domestic rates down here either. Great value for money.

So you're saying they don't oppose them at all?

Interesting.

Santa Cruz

Bring on the marching season. We need a bit of entertainment

The Diabolical Monocle

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No doubt graciously paid for by the despised Brits.

Call it reparations.

Dan_Solo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So you're saying they don't oppose them at all?

I wasn't aware that Banjo String can speak conclusively for Sinn Fein party policy?

jank

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

. refusal to constantly express solidarity with North Korea or Cuba.

If the hallmarks of a right winger is the refusal to express solidarity with the leadership of North Korea than that makes 95% of the world right wingers.

Dan_Solo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Are SF actively opposing these charges in the North or are they using the "aw shucks, we're a minority member of the executive <snip>

Well at least you have admitted the aren't in a position to "impose" anything in NI. That's progress, eh?

Banjo String

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So you're saying they don't oppose them at all?
Interesting.

Whats interesting about it?

You're not seriously going to try comparing our LPT to the domestic rates in the north.

I'd seriously think about that if I were you.

K-9

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Myths busted?

SF haven't done anything so far. There isn't anything to bust.

It seems with all the euphoria from the party faithful they seem to have forgotten the real winners of the elections, FF!

FF have actually increased their lead over SF from the GE, 7% to 10%. FF on 25/26% are getting close to FG in 2007, they'll start seeing a huge seat dividend from a small increase in vote share, after experiencing a meltdown in the previous election. Around that share of the vote FF and FG start pulling in 2 TD's in bigger constituencies, and even in the likes of Dublin with 13/14% they'll start getting TD's elected.

So for a dose of political reality, FF haven't gone away you know, and SF will not be the main opposition party in the next Dail, something that would have been their aim in 2011. SF are getting it from 2 sides, some of the FF vote that went to Labour (people forget Labour benefited from the FF meltdown just as much as FG) will go back there, and the Labour vote that will stay left also has strong Socialist, PFP and ex Labour TD's and councillors to contend with.

SF will do well in the next GE, could gain about 10 seats to have about 24/25, but FF will probably have 40-50 TD's.

jank

Bannasidhe wrote: »

SF are fish - they want to change Ireland including the most radical change of all - to bring the Unionist Presbyterian into the fold of a United Ireland - that will really stir things up.

It was actually John Burton that brought the Unionists into the Irish political fold, so much so he was called John 'Unionist' as a derogatory term. Funny how people re-write history to suit their own version of it.

Needless to say he is not liked by the Shinners.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/12367

jank

Jester252 wrote: »

Anyone claiming FF are left by any degree must have not lived in Ireland during the 00s

Massive expansion of the state is usually regarded as left. They doubled the OAP and welfare in a matter of years never mind the bloated mess of the HSE they created. Social partnership and benchmarking, all created to keep the unions on their side. You honestly think unions would vote for a centre right party?

K-9

The other thing about SF is it is easy for the establishment parties to put a halt to their rise in the opinion polls. SF were even ahead of FF in some opinion polls, but the Gerry Adams business gave a short, sharp shock to people considering them. I'd say they lost 4/5% of the vote they should have got from all that.

It's similar to McGuinness in the Presidential. He was doing well, looked to have an outside chance and the Shinners started getting a bit carried away. Drag up the past and the rise stops and actually support drops back.

So while SF did well in the election and definitely gained support from areas inconceivable 10 years ago, the establishment can very easily put a stop to their gallop. This strategy can only work so long, as the old guard gets replaced it will become less and less effective, but for the next 4 or 5 years it will still work, to the benefit of FF and FG.

LordSutch

K-9 wrote: »

The other thing about SF is it is easy for the establishment parties to put a halt to their rise in the opinion polls. SF were even ahead of FF in some opinion polls, but the Gerry Adams business gave a short, sharp shock to people considering them. I'd say they lost 4/5% of the vote they should have got from all that.

So while SF did well in the election and definitely gained support from areas inconceivable 10 years ago, the establishment can very easily put a stop to their gallop. This strategy can only work so long, as the old guard gets replaced it will become less and less effective, but for the next 4 or 5 years it will still work, to the benefit of FF and FG.

Of course the same can be said of the old guard in Sinn Fein and their demise in the next 4 or 5 years (due to advancing years), which will leave the way clear for the Lynn Boylan's of this world to peddle thir ever so clean and modern version of SF. Boylan, Doherty, etc not having blood on their hands, so no skeletons in their cupboards I guess . . . .

PS: I hope McDobald gets the top job, as she's loud, too sure of herself, and guarenteed not to gain SF too many extra followers.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

I wouldn't oppose domestic rates down here either. Great value for money.

Better value for money for someone who pays €1000 than for someone who pays €4000. Why does the value of a house have to be taken into account when a charge for services is being levied?

If they are neighbouring properties doesn't the cheaper one get the same services as the more expensive one?

ninebeanrows

Am I wrong or did Sinn Fein under achieve like usual?

Polls before the election were suggesting they'd hit 21/22%. As usual their vote is soft and the reality was it was 15.2%.

Hardly a ground breaking result in a mid-term election in the current climate.

The real outcome from this election is the depressing renewal of Fianna Fail. It is incredible to think that it is likely they will lead the next government just one term on from bringing this country to ruin.

Agueroooo

K-9 wrote: »

but FF will probably have 40-50 TD's.

that would be absolutely disgusting if it happens in the next G.E.

has the people forgotten already what that shower done to our country, and youth for decades to come.

and I wouldn't mind, those stupid enough to vote them back in probably have kids over the other side of the world working due to FF policies whilst in power.

fúcking short memories is right.

Banjo String

Banjo String wrote: »

I wouldn't oppose domestic rates down here either. Great value for money.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Better value for money for someone who pays €1000 than for someone who pays €4000. Why does the value of a house have to be taken into account when a charge for services is being levied?

If they are neighbouring properties doesn't the cheaper one get the same services as the more expensive one?

That argument is comparible here too

Meanwhile, neither your two (above average) examples are paying how much exactly in health fees, bin charges, school book fees?

What's their vat rate?

As pointed out earlier, I paid over 3k in USC last year, on top of my income and prsi contributions.

How much is USC up there?

Did you find out about the property Gerry Adams 'owns' in Louth yet incidentally?

LordSutch

Agueroooo wrote: »

that would be absolutely disgusting if it happens in the next G.E.

has the pwople forgotten all ready what that shower done to our country, and youth for decades to come.

and I wouldn't mind those stupid enough to vote them back in probably have kids over the other side of the world working cause of FF policies whilst in power.

fúcking short memories is right.

And you are covieniently forgetting the years/decades of hurt SF and the IRA put this island through (Terrorist & economic hardship).
Ergo if Sinn Fein ever got into power down here, that would be disgusting and an insult to their victims memories & our intillegence.

Agueroooo wrote: »

fúcking short memories is right.

Here, here.

K-9

Weathercheck wrote: »

Am I wrong or did Sinn Fein under achieve like usual?

Polls before the election were suggesting they'd hit 21/22%. As usual their vote is soft and the reality was it was 15.2%.

Hardly a ground breaking result in a mid-term election in the current climate.

The real outcome from this election is the depressing renewal of Fianna Fail. It is incredible to think that it is likely they will lead the next government just one term on from bringing this country to ruin.

Yep, depressing as it is, that's the reality of the local election results. Long term though I can't see FF ever getting back to Bertie levels of popularity, just reports of their demise 3 years ago were greatly exaggerated.

Agueroooo wrote: »

that would be absolutely disgusting if it happens in the next G.E.

has the pwople forgotten all ready what that shower done to our country, and youth for decades to come.

and I wouldn't mind those stupid enough to vote them back in probably have kids over the other side of the world working cause of FF policies whilst in power.

fúcking short memories is right.

Some people feel the same about SF, others FG, others hate the far left, such is politics.

Jester252

jank wrote: »

Massive expansion of the state is usually regarded as left. They doubled the OAP and welfare in a matter of years never mind the bloated mess of the HSE they created. Social partnership and benchmarking, all created to keep the unions on their side. You honestly think unions would vote for a centre right party?

left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality FYI.

They where living the high life with upper management with the civil services, which was the same few names of pals who where bounced around.

You are also not taking into account that the country during the time was in a boom, Ireland had more money than they knew what to do with. Every party was promising to expand the civil services and cut taxes.

Is it social equality to use tax payer money to bail out your friend company?

FF being left is one of the best jokes I have heard in a long time.

K-9

Weathercheck wrote: »

Am I wrong or did Sinn Fein under achieve like usual?

Polls before the election were suggesting they'd hit 21/22%. As usual their vote is soft and the reality was it was 15.2%.

Hardly a ground breaking result in a mid-term election in the current climate.

The real outcome from this election is the depressing renewal of Fianna Fail. It is incredible to think that it is likely they will lead the next government just one term on from bringing this country to ruin.

The next GE will be intriguing, even more so than 2011. FG will be the biggest party but who the feck would go into Government as junior partners with them? I'd say that's why Enda didn't dismiss SF as possible coalition partners, he might have no other option as FF and Labour aren't going to want to go near Government.

They might get enough Independents, all depends on how much seats they lose.

Kermit.de.frog

How is Dublin City Council going to function properly after this election? Hard to see such disparate groupings working well together.

jank

Jester252 wrote: »

left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality FYI.

Doubling welfare rates and the OAP, massive spending increases into the departments of health, education and welfare. Social partnership and payoffs for the public sector... and you think these measures are not evidence of any support for social equality?