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Way to go Sinn Fein

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Comments

  • #872
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    And you know this for certain how?
    Please don't start your answer with the idiotic "most people did not vote for...". Thanks.

    But the fact is that if the majority of the people wanted it then the majority of the people would vote for sinn fein. Surely the fact that the majority don't vote for them means the majority don't want their type of socialism :confused:


  • #873
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i predict people here being sorely disappointed when SF do get into office and are unable to do anything differently and turn out to be the exact same as the rest of them. the trust and positivty about SF displayed here is almost infectious but i fear highly naive. as i said in a previous post, if you want a preview of SF in power, look north of the border where they are fully "establishment", handing out austerity and towing the line.

    agreed - once the triumphalism of these heady days die down, people will find out very quickly that there is no magic bullet(bettter not use that word here) formula I mean to resolve our economic situation and when the SF smoke and mirrors show dies down, they are just going to have to engage with other parties and do as the have been oblliged to do in Northern Ireland ...toe the line dictated by economic circumstances. To believe otherwise is just daydreaming and the failure of theFG/Labour regime and previously FF administration proved that populist politics dont cut in in the real world.


  • #874
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,086 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    miles_away wrote: »
    iceland chose a path but to think it was entirely painless , is extremely foolish , choices are everywhere

    Was the path the Iceland Government chose less painful for their citizens than the path chosen by the Irish Government for their citizens?


  • #875
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    miles_away wrote: »
    its important not to be taken in by cheap populist slogans !
    Which parties don't use cheap populist slogans as a matter of interest?
    The ones you vote for by any chance?


  • #876
    miles_away
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 46 ✭miles_away


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    And you know this for certain how?
    Please don't start your answer with the idiotic "most people did not vote for...". Thanks.

    because nearly 40% of the population vote for FF less than ten years ago and they were led by a man who believed in nothing bar buying off every vested interest in the land

    i think many dont realise just how left wing SF are , they believe in the state having a role in every aspect of the economy , freedoms would need to be greatly curtailed in order to implement their beliefs and idealogy


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  • #877
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    miles_away wrote: »
    iceland chose a path but to think it was entirely painless , is extremely foolish , choices are everywhere , people can chose to make SF the largest party at the next general election , equality would most likely rise but the ability to create wealth would drastically reduce , you cannot pour large amounts of money into social programes without wealth

    its important not to be taken in by cheap populist slogans !

    Where did I say it was easy? It was far from easy.

    Nonetheless they did it and returned to the bondmarket before Ireland -

    Ireland where a great many people are also not having it easy and won't for a very very long time due to death by a thousand cutbacks as we have to continue to pay off the boldholders while Iceland is starting with a clean sheet just four year later.


  • #878
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    But the fact is that if the majority of the people wanted it then the majority of the people would vote for sinn fein. Surely the fact that the majority don't vote for them means the majority don't want their type of socialism :confused:
    And if the majority wanted what FF, FG or Labour offer then they would vote for them.
    They don't.
    You can say "the majority have rejected party X and their philosophy" in this country about ANY party, rendering it meaningless.


  • #879
    miles_away
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 46 ✭miles_away


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    From what I've read and the Icelandics I've talked to it was no worse than what we have here with one big difference: now it's over.

    do you know that their are caps on how much money an icelander can withdraw from a bank over there if they wish to leave their home country ?

    two thousand euro , thats the kind of draconian measures which were put in place in order to save their economy in the aftermath of defaulting


  • #880
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    As iwasfrozen went into a semi-catatonic state of confusion trying to comprehend, I find myself as a supporter of SF's policies except for NI. Don't want it really. Unification would just set the clock back to 1975 when we at least have peace there now.

    TBH part of me would love to see a vocal Presbyterian minority yelling and shouting and putting it up the cosy homogeneous political elites. ;)

    But really I would like an NHS...


  • #881
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    miles_away wrote: »
    because nearly 40% of the population vote for FF less than ten years ago and they were led by a man who believed in nothing bar buying off every vested interest in the land
    So the majority of voters REJECTED Fianna Fail and their policies!
    See how easy (and pointless) this is?


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  • #882
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    miles_away wrote: »
    do you know that their are caps on how much money an icelander can withdraw from a bank over there if they wish to leave their home country ?

    two thousand euro , thats the kind of draconian measures which were put in place in order to save their economy in the aftermath of defaulting
    Yeah, and?
    The Irish equivalent seems to have been "You can withdraw all your millions and move to France. Cheers for ****ing the place up."


  • #883
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    miles_away wrote: »
    all of them receive entitlements which are more than adqaquete to cover living expenses , you cannot regulate every single case however , some people are hopeless money managers and would be struggling on a grand per week

    relative to most european countries however , irish pensioners have it incredibly good

    All?

    Age Action disagree but what do they know eh.
    “Age Action is not surprised that the poverty indicators for older people are rising, with financial pressures increasing substantially on older people in the last 18 months,” Mr Timmins said. “Property tax, a trebling of the prescription charge and soaring energy prices are just some of the increased costs which have been introduced since 2011, with older people having to pay them from a declining income. The increased costs are on unavoidable elements of their cost of living – a roof over their head, essential medication and heat.”
    http://www.ageaction.ie/cso-report-shows-falling-income-and-rising-poverty-among-older-people


  • #884
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    TBH part of me would love to see a vocal Presbyterian minority yelling and shouting and putting it up the cosy homogeneous political elites. ;)

    But really I would like an NHS...

    I've actually had several posters call me a shinner etc on this thread.
    I have pointed out that I voted Independent on Friday.
    And like yourself, I voted Labour in the last GE.
    But I will say this...I will be watching very closely how the current parties in power react to the recent result and also to how the newly elected SF and Independent candidates perform. If I feel that the SF candidates out perform the others, then I will have no hesitation in voting for them in the next GE.

    Oh and also, yes please for the NHS!!!


  • #885
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Yeah, and?
    The Irish equivalent seems to have been "You can withdraw all your millions and move to France. Cheers for ****ing the place up."

    Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathtub.


  • #886
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    From what I've read and the Icelandics I've talked to it was no worse than what we have here with one big difference: now it's over.

    Funny - that is what I am hearing from my Icelandic friends too. That and Pride.


  • #887
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    And if the majority wanted what FF, FG or Labour offer then they would vote for them.
    They don't.
    You can say "the majority have rejected party X and their philosophy" in this country about ANY party, rendering it meaningless.

    That's exactly what they did!
    FF 24.9%
    FG 23.8%
    Lab 7.4%

    Total 56.1%
    Last time I checked 56% was a majority.
    *Awaits abusive rant*


  • #888
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathtub.
    Talk about Mr. Confused McStereotyper yet again failing to make any useful point whatsoever.
    Wanna make a fool of yourself telling me what policies I support?


  • #889
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    bumper234 wrote: »
    But the fact is that if the majority of the people wanted it then the majority of the people would vote for sinn fein. Surely the fact that the majority don't vote for them means the majority don't want their type of socialism :confused:

    Can't really say that unless SF ran a candidate in every single constituency.

    I honestly can't recall, but I don't think they did...


  • #890
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    agreed - once the triumphalism of these heady days die down, people will find out very quickly that there is no magic bullet(bettter not use that word here) formula I mean to resolve our economic situation and when the SF smoke and mirrors show dies down, they are just going to have to engage with other parties and do as the have been oblliged to do in Northern Ireland ...toe the line dictated by economic circumstances. To believe otherwise is just daydreaming and the failure of theFG/Labour regime and previously FF administration proved that populist politics dont cut in in the real world.
    100% correct


  • #891
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    The triumphalism and arrogance in some pro SF posters here is very telling. I've seen this jingoistic " Toicfaidh ar la" s stuff before and its not very edifying. I'm not a supporter of any party here but am quite sceptical, as are many other posters, of the capacity of SF to deliver on its anti austerity strategy in a local government or national administration scenario. Yes they are successful because of voters disgust with the betrayal by FG/Labour and before them FF, but honestly, I cant see SF in power doing anything differently..."its the economy stupid" as someone said ! I'm not for an instance suggesting that SF supporters or representatives are stupid , its just that for me anyway, there are too many unanswered questions from the past, too many vague populist slogans, and like FF and FG/Labour, too many relics of a past we need to move on from. Yes there are some bright new prospects in SF as in other parties and its time to see the substance rather than the style. Now's their chance !


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  • #892
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    miles_away wrote: »
    do you know that their are caps on how much money an icelander can withdraw from a bank over there if they wish to leave their home country ?

    two thousand euro , thats the kind of draconian measures which were put in place in order to save their economy in the aftermath of defaulting

    More draconian than taking medical health cards off sick children?

    Tell me - don't Icelanders have credit cards? That is what I use when abroad cos who the hells wants to have a load of cash about your person...


  • #893
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    upyores wrote: »
    That's exactly what they did!
    FF 24.9%
    FG 23.8%
    Lab 7.4%

    Total 56.1%
    Last time I checked 56% was a majority.
    *Awaits abusive rant*
    75.1% REJECTED Fianna Fail they were so DISGUSTED by the policies.
    76.2% REJECTED Fine Gael they were so DISGUSTED by the policies.
    etc.
    PS: if there's abuse here report it. Whining about abuse you can't specify won't help convince anybody of your case. (except maybe iwasfrozen)


  • #894
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    miles_away wrote: »
    the state pension in ireland is nearly double what people in the uk receive , thats a pretty striking statistic and one which is completely unsustainable
    +1. And as David mcwilliam says its unsustainable too to have our public servants , inc the politicians, retiring on three times as much as they get in the UK.
    Geuze wrote: »
    PS pensions are 50% of former wages here.

    In the UK, the civil service pensions are typically the same:

    http://resources.civilservice.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/YCPBE.pdf
    But afaik our public servants historically retire on 50% of final years income plus a tax free "gratuity" of 18 months salary. Because our public servants are so much better paid that in the UK, that explains the difference in pensions too. I am not a SF voter but I agree with SF that public servants inc politicians should only be paid average industrial wage. Their own leaders set the tone and donate, afaik, anything they receive over the average industrial pay to the party.


  • #895
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    75.1% REJECTED Fianna Fail they were so DISGUSTED by the policies.
    76.2% REJECTED Fine Gael they were so DISGUSTED by the policies.
    etc.
    PS: if there's abuse here report it. Whining about abuse you can't specify won't help convince anybody of your case. (except maybe iwasfrozen)

    You forgot the biggie 85% rejected SF they were so disgusted by their policies!
    That's a way bigger rejection rate than either FF or FG got, how did you miss that?:confused:


  • #896
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Talk about Mr. Confused McStereotyper yet again failing to make any useful point whatsoever.
    Wanna make a fool of yourself telling me what policies I support?

    Lord only knows what policies a man who supports stopping people from transferring their own money believes is.


  • #897
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,570 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    people are angry at economic mismanagement and they want to put SF into power?! LOL!


  • #898
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    upyores wrote: »
    You forgot the biggie 85% rejected SF they were so disgusted by their policies!
    That's a way bigger rejection rate than either FF or GG got, how did you miss that?:confused:
    Good, so you agree that this "didn't for for" is BS. Thanks for agreeing.
    (I was working with the percentages given BTW, if you had bothered to read the posts properly)


  • #899
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    people are angry at economic mismanagement and they want to put SF into power?! LOL!
    If their economic policies are as useless as your contribution here then we're all in trouble alright.


  • #900
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,570 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Actually the one time they may have been good to have in power is when we got foisted with the bank debt, they may well have not taken it on...


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  • #901
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Lord only knows what policies a man who supports stopping people from transferring their own money believes is.
    Er, if it ends the bailout in four years I'm all for it. God knows what proponents of generations of crippling debt and taking medical cards of sick children like yourself would also support.


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