Way to go Sinn Fein

miles_away

Bannasidhe wrote: »

TBH part of me would love to see a vocal Presbyterian minority yelling and shouting and putting it up the cosy homogeneous political elites.

But really I would like an NHS...

i once worked for a dour , joyless presbyterian from the scotish borders , insufferably self righteous but good people for reminding you that work has to be done in the morning and early

the unionist population of northern ireland will be an asset to the country going forward , i support a united ireland myself

mickydoomsux

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Er, if it ends the bailout in four years I'm all for it. God knows what proponents of generations of crippling debt and taking medical cards of sick children like yourself would also support.

You do love your emotive nonsense, don't you?

Are you Joe Duffy?

miles_away

Bannasidhe wrote: »

More draconian than taking medical health cards off sick children?

Tell me - don't Icelanders have credit cards? That is what I use when abroad cos who the hells wants to have a load of cash about your person...

the alternative to taking medical cards of sick children ( which i oppose ) was taking it off pensioners who ( if in a relationship ) have a combined income of 45 k per year , people in this country want pensioners spoiled so kids must suffer

kids are four times more likely to be in poverty than old people in ireland , politicans allow this to happen because the kids cant vote

goverments spend money where they want to

re_ iceland , was refering to icelanders who wish to emmigrate , 2k is the largest amount they can withdraw from their bank accounts ( whatever 2k is in icelandic krona ) , many icelanders also took out mortgages in euro so the result of a highly devalued icelandic krona , is a much larger mortgage

Iwasfrozen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Er, if it ends the bailout in four years I'm all for it. God knows what proponents of generations of crippling debt and taking medical cards of sick children like yourself would also support.

It wouldn't end the bail out in 4 years on its own. It would however be a massive restriction of people's rights.

As for Iceland you do realise our economy is much better than theirs don't you?

Dan_Solo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You do love your emotive nonsense, don't you?

Are you Joe Duffy?

Gee, spot who can't argue any specifics.

mickydoomsux

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Gee, spot who can't argue any specifics.

You.

Dan_Solo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It wouldn't end the bail out in 4 years on its own. It would however be a massive restriction of people's rights.

As for Iceland you do realise our economy is much better than theirs don't you?

Taking away a baby's medical treatment isn't affecting their rights? OK.
Plenty of other taxes and charges also demand we do things with our money that we don't want to BTW.
By what measures are we doing better than Iceland then?

miles_away

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If their economic policies are as useless as your contribution here then we're all in trouble alright.

its not about their economic policys being " useless " , thats subjective , SF have a radically different view of how an economy should opperate , they favour a much much larger role for the state , like i said , equality would likely rise but prosperity would have to fall overall as economic personal liberty would be curtailed , i realise that some see that as desirable

Dan_Solo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You.

No, you are, times ten.
(To put this at a level you just MIGHT comprehend)

Iwasfrozen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Taking away a baby's medical treatment isn't affecting their rights? OK.

Christ sake Dan shut up with the emotional rubbish.

Plenty of other taxes and charges also demand we do things with our money that we don't want to BTW.
By what measures are we doing better than Iceland then?

Our economy is stronger than Iceland's. Do you understand what that means? It means our way of dealing with the crisis was better than Iceland's.

Dan_Solo

miles_away wrote: »

its not about their economic policys being " useless " , thats subjective , SF have a radically different view of how an economy should opperate , they favour a much much larger role for the state , like i said , equality would likely rise but prosperity would have to fall overall as economic personal liberty would be curtailed , i realise that some see that as desirable

There is a positive correlation between income equaliy and average income across the world.
Not saying it's for definite of course but more likely.

Reformed Character

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Gee, spot who can't argue any specifics.

Looking in a mirror when you typed that post?

mickydoomsux

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Taking away a baby's medical treatment isn't affecting their rights? OK.

They aren't taking it away. They are expecting the parents to pay instead of the state if the parents don't pass a means test.

The are looking for "the rich" to pay :0 expect more of that if the Shinners get any real power.

maryishere

lightspeed wrote: »

Sinn Fein and Socialist, People before profit are all selling people magic beans.

Ming would never have got elected were there not a market for his magic beans.

I think if anybody wanted to get elected into politics, all you need to do is knock on doors and tell people that there should be no water tax, property tax, no cuts to child welfare, tax higher earners more, invest more in education, health service, public transport.

Completely disregard, financial and economic realities though. That is a must.

We are still spending more than we take in, sill have large debt to repay, people are living longer with no cuts to the pension and yet the fund for that was used for the banks. Huge overspend in health care. Thanks to the unions these left wing parties support, we have some of the best paid bus and rail drivers in the world and also one of the most expensive public transports network in the world.

40% of the country on medical cards.
Pretty high unemployment benefits which are well more generous than other EU countries and are given on a permanent basis unlike other EU countries.

Single mothers can easily get rent allowance for housing which is not in all other EU countries.

Child benefit (yes a financial benefit for increasing the population) which they dont have in other Eu countries.

Cheaper education than most other EU countries.

A water service that is in need of costly repairs and restoration.

When Fianna Fail were growing the economy by creating a property boom and knocking on doors, persuading people to vote for them, those that did should be questioning why did i buy the magic beans that those clowns were selling me?

When people hear sinn fein, socialist party etc, talk how we should not have any of the new taxes being introduced, for the people who trust their policies , do you not feel as silly and stupid as the people who years ago bought the magic beans that Fianna Faill sold people at the doorsteps?

What economic evidence or financial data have people who support sinn fein seen that proves we can avoid such taxes and maintain the current services?

If you have seen no evidence and still trust in their policies, how is it not the

equivalent to buying magic beans?

Good points there. It all goes to prove he Irish electorate is easily seduced by magic beans. Are we really capable of governing ourselves, or at least of controlling our own finances? We make excellent singers poets and lads/ladettes up for the crack, but as a population given what lightspeed has written above, it makes you wonder. When I was in Oz some people there said why could we not handle money?( having seen how we squandered the cheap imported borrowed money of the boom years ).

Dan_Solo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Christ sake Dan shut up with the emotional rubbish.


Our economy is stronger than Iceland's. Do you understand what that means? It means our way of dealing with the crisis was better than Iceland's.

So taking away a child's medical care is "emotive" but only letting you leave the country with 2000 in cash is a shocking abuse of your rights?
I asked in what way is our economy stronger. You haven't answered.

Dan_Solo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

They aren't taking it away. They are expecting the parents to pay instead of the state if the parents don't pass a means test.

The are looking for "the rich" to pay :0 expect more of that if the Shinners get any real power.

Ah, so now you are agreeing the rich don't pay their fair share.
Voted SF yourself then no doubt.

Bannasidhe

maryishere wrote: »

+1. And as David mcwilliam says its unsustainable too to have our public servants , inc the politicians, retiring on three times as much as they get in the UK.


But afaik our public servants historically retire on 50% of final years income plus a tax free "gratuity" of 18 months salary. Because our public servants are so much better paid that in the UK, that explains the difference in pensions too. I am not a SF voter but I agree with SF that public servants inc politicians should only be paid average industrial wage. Their own leaders set the tone and donate, afaik, anything they receive over the average industrial pay to the party.

I am not sure how I feel about the donations to the party to be honest - I think I don't like it - but yes, politicos and the top tier in the public sector are paid far too much and their salaries should be linked to the average industrial wage - as indeed their pensions should be. I honestly don't think anyone should get a state pension that is higher than the average Ind wage.

Dan_Solo

upyores wrote: »

Looking in a mirror when you typed that post?

Another "no, you are"? You guys buy jokes from the same comedian by any chance?

Red Nissan

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Taking away a baby's medical treatment isn't affecting their rights? OK.?

The baby medical card needs to be looked at on a personal level. Most talk about the Downs Syndrome Baby, if put in a perspective they are usually born to middle aged middle to upper class couples who are comfortable or well off.

The child is not sick or ill, it's a condition that is what it is.

Other factors may apply where the child is in fact ill and needs constant medical attention, and these should be looked after.

Medical Cards for all I say. Someone posted a study in another thread that spending on a healthy population was economically beneficial as long term care was reduced and emergency care was reduced and working lives were increased.

Reformed Character

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah, so now you are agreeing the rich don't pay their fair share.
Voted SF yourself then no doubt.

Statistically the "Rich" pay proportionally far more than their fair share.
But don't let the fact get in the way of a good oul rant.

mickydoomsux

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah, so now you are agreeing the rich don't pay their fair share.
Voted SF yourself then no doubt.

That's not even close to what I'm suggesting.

I have a problem with people who have the means to pay for something being given it for nothing for purely emotive reasons.

Iwasfrozen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So taking away a child's medical care is "emotive" but only letting you leave the country with 2000 in cash is a shocking abuse of your rights?
I asked in what way is our economy stronger. You haven't answered.

The childs medical card was taken away from the "rich" exactly the sort of thing SF would support no?

No you didn't but I'll answer it anyway. Iceland's GDP PPP per capita is 39k Ireland's GDP PPP per capita is 44k.

Tell that to the next Icelands you hear gloating about his country's recovery.

Dan_Solo

upyores wrote: »

Statistically the "Rich" pay proportionally far more than their fair share.
But don't let the fact get in the way of a good oul rant.

If you can find the word "fair" in a statistical equation you win an internet biscuit.
So what you have decided is fair is now a fact? Bit Godlike of you, no?

Bannasidhe

miles_away wrote: »

i once worked for a dour , joyless presbyterian from the scotish borders , insufferably self righteous but good people for reminding you that work has to be done in the morning and early

the unionist population of northern ireland will be an asset to the country going forward , i support a united ireland myself

Used to do Christmas on the Isle of Skye for years - me and some English friends all alone doing Xmas as the Free Prebs shun such frivolity. Then they let rip for Hogmanny. Only time in my life I came close to alcohol poisoning - so not only was I teased for being a Fenian Taig - I was ridiculed for being a lightweight as I passed out at lunch .

I later learned that I was being given the 'good' stuff the locals drink while my English friends (who lived on the island) were being given Famous Grouse (or tourist muck as Katie Charlie MacDonald called it) on the grounds that while they may hate every inch of my Fenian taigness sure I was their cousin really and still preferable to English Anglicans.

I think they would be an asset too - after all, they did invent Irish republicanism.

miles_away

Dan_Solo wrote: »

There is a positive correlation between income equaliy and average income across the world.
Not saying it's for definite of course but more likely.

sinn fein are much more closer to albania on the economy than denmark

miles_away

mickydoomsux wrote: »

That's not even close to what I'm suggesting.

I have a problem with people who have the means to pay for something being given it for nothing for purely emotive reasons.

your second paragraph is the entire foundation for policy towards pensioners in this country

tayto lover

Red Nissan wrote: »

The baby medical card needs to be looked at on a personal level. Most talk about the Downs Syndrome Baby, if put in a perspective they are usually born to middle aged middle to upper class couples who are comfortable or well off.

The child is not sick or ill, it's a condition that is what it is.

Other factors may apply where the child is in fact ill and needs constant medical attention, and these should be looked after.

Medical Cards for all I say. Someone posted a study in another thread that spending on a healthy population was economically beneficial as long term care was reduced and emergency care was reduced and working lives were increased.

Would you have a link to prove that please?
I think DS babies also require a lot more looking after i.e. childcare expenses.

mickydoomsux

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If you can find the word "fair" in a statistical equation you win an internet biscuit.
So what you have decided is fair is now a fact? Bit Godlike of you, no?

And yet SF and a lot of the independents campaigned on the rich paying their fair share.

Who are they to decide what that is?

miles_away

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Used to do Christmas on the Isle of Skye for years - me and some English friends all alone doing Xmas as the Free Prebs shun such frivolity. Then they let rip for Hogmanny. Only time in my life I came close to alcohol poisoning - so not only was I teased for being a Fenian Taig - I was ridiculed for being a lightweight as I passed out at lunch .

I later learned that I was being given the 'good' stuff the locals drink while my English friends (who lived on the island) were being given Famous Grouse (or tourist muck as Katie Charlie MacDonald called it) on the grounds that while they may hate every inch of my Fenian taigness sure I was their cousin really and still preferable to English Anglicans.

I think they would be an asset too - after all, they did invent Irish republicanism.

good post

Dan_Solo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No you didn't but I'll answer it anyway. Iceland's GDP PPP per capita is 39k Ireland's GDP PPP per capita is 44k.

Tell that to the next Icelands you hear gloating about his country's recovery.

Iceland 41,000
Ireland 39,547

World Bank PPP figures.
You were saying?