Way to go Sinn Fein

dark crystal · 25-05-2014 11:54AM

Banjo String wrote: »

They don't have water charges in the north. They (Westminster) attempted to introduce them.

I'm at a loss as to how this line keeps getting rolled out tbh.

Yeah, this criticism of SF keeps being trotted out, but it's just not true.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/23113

Conor Murphy MLA explained, “As Assembly minister with responsibility for water services I blocked any attempt to introduce water rates. Westminster tried to bully us into imposing water charges, we successfully resisted this. We invested £1 billion over four years, £1 million every day, without ever introducing water rates.
“This money was raised through inter departmental savings. Up to 6% was saved through efficiencies. This money was used to upgrade the water system. The Irish government are wrong to say that all citizens in the EU pay water rates. I can safely say water rates is off the agenda in the northern Assembly.”

Barely There · 25-05-2014 11:54AM

upyores wrote: »

Can you explain to me how SF "got the Lions share".
Independs got 28%
FF got over 24%
FG got over 23%
SF got 16%.

Embarrassing result for the Shinners - 8% behind the party that wrecked the Country in local elections which have always favoured 'protest' parties.

They'l be lucky to get 12% in a GE - I'm predicting 10% in 2016 with a further drop off in support the following years as economic conditions improve.

Woodville56 · 25-05-2014 11:54AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

SF TDs already live on the average industrial wage (no - I don't like the fact that the donate the rest to the party but at least it's not going into their pocket like the rest of the shower in Leinster house) so straight away that is a point in their favour when it comes to making common ground with the electorate.

As as taxpayer I don't like that any of my money would be going to SF party funds, TDs and ministers of all ilk are paid too much , they should get a standard mid range wage plus only vouched expenses within defined parameters. Local councillor's should get expenses only, given their limited powers. There mightn't be as crowded a field for election if the junkets, allowances etc were mute restricted

Bannasidhe · 25-05-2014 11:54AM

Woodville56 wrote: »

Like Gerry Adams yeah ??? Eyes Wide Shut to ...child abuse.....the disappeared....Jean McConville.....

And SF gonna save Irish Society ....really Red Nissan ?

Oh give it a rest.

How many people are going to die today/tomorrow/next week because their medical health card has been withdrawn?

How many more people are going to end up homeless today/tomorrow/next week because rents are soaring and rent allowance is capped at unrealistic levels?

How many more murders because the guards are under resourced?

How many guards are going to be attacked because the people are loosing faith in them?

Withdrawing the medical health card of a seriously ill person thereby denying then vital treatment in order to give that card to a health 5 year old whose family has private health insurance is murder by bureaucracy.

Bannasidhe · 25-05-2014 11:57AM

Woodville56 wrote: »

As as taxpayer I don't like that any of my money would be going to SF party funds, TDs and ministers of all ilk are paid too much , they should get a standard mid range wage plus only vouched expenses within defined parameters. Local councillor's should get expenses only, given their limited powers. There mightn't be as crowded a field for election if the junkets, allowances etc were mute restricted

I agree.

Personally I would link everyone's salary paid out of public funds to the average industrial wage.

Woodville56 · 25-05-2014 11:58AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh give it a rest.

How many people are going to die today/tomorrow/next week because their medical health card has been withdrawn?

How many more people are going to end up homeless today/tomorrow/next week because rents are soaring and rent allowance is capped at unrealistic levels?

How many more murders because the guards are under resourced?

How many guards are going to be attacked because the people are loosing faith in them?

Withdrawing the medical health card of a seriously ill person thereby denying then vital treatment in order to give that card to a health 5 year old whose family has private health insurance is murder by bureaucracy.

Avoiding answering the hard questions again ....just as Adams, McDonald et al did throughout the election campaign !! Looking forward now though to SF supporting the Gardai, opening up the closed hospital beds, etc etc

Banjo String · 25-05-2014 12:02PM

Barely There wrote: »

Embarrassing result for the Shinners - 8% behind the party that wrecked the Country in local elections which have always favoured 'protest' parties.

They'l be lucky to get 12% in a GE - I'm predicting 10% in 2016 with a further drop off in support the following years as economic conditions improve.

Leo Varadkar contradicts you.

Pre election results :

The contest to lead the next Government could be between Fine Gael and Sinn Féin, Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar has suggested.

Mr Varadkar said he could see the potential for a scenario where the electoral contest at the next general election could be “Fine Gael versus Sinn Féin to lead the next Government”. But he adamantly ruled out any coalition between the two parties because they were ideologically and politically too far apart.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-or-sinn-f%C3%A9in-could-lead-next-government-says-varadkar-1.1805270

Post election results:

TRANSPORT Minister Leo Varadkar has predicted a battle betweenFine Gael and Sinn Fein to lead the Government

Mr Varadkar warned his party colleagues against treating today’s poll results as a “blip” in support they could bounce back from.

He believes the Government needs to take action to regain public confidence ahead of a scheduled general election in 2016.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/latest-news/varadkar-battle-between-fine-gael-and-sinn-fein-to-lead-next-government-30301254.html

If SF continue the trend in making these gains, they could well surpass FF or FG come the next elections.

You can stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout lalalalala all you like, but sooner or later you're gonna have to stop ignoring the obvious Frank.

dxhound2005 · 25-05-2014 12:02PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I agree.

Personally I would link everyone's salary paid out of public funds to the average industrial wage.

Personally I would do away with the whole political system. Who needs them. And that would save enough to pay our Social Welfare bill for a whole day.

Bannasidhe · 25-05-2014 12:06PM

Woodville56 wrote: »

Avoiding answering the hard questions again ....just as Adams, McDonald et al did throughout the election campaign !! Looking forward now though to SF supporting the Gardai, opening up the closed hospital beds, etc etc

You mean the hard questions about what happened over 30 years ago are more important than the hard questions about what is happening here and now?

Sure thing boss - dying seven year olds will just have to suck it up while our taoiseach shouts 'Jean McConville' across the floor of the Dáil but hey - that is far more important and sure if that seven year old dies they can rest easy knowing we are all in this together and we have our priorities sorted.

RobertKK · 25-05-2014 12:09PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Yeah, this criticism of SF keeps being trotted out, but it's just not true.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/23113

But they get bailed out by money coming from Britain every year, easy to block when someone else is paying.

lightspeed · 25-05-2014 12:11PM

Sinn Fein and Socialist, People before profit are all selling people magic beans.

Ming would never have got elected were there not a market for his magic beans.

I think if anybody wanted to get elected into politics, all you need to do is knock on doors and tell people that there should be no water tax, property tax, no cuts to child welfare, tax higher earners more, invest more in education, health service, public transport.

Completely disregard, financial and economic realities though. That is a must.

We are still spending more than we take in, sill have large debt to repay, people are living longer with no cuts to the pension and yet the fund for that was used for the banks. Huge overspend in health care. Thanks to the unions these left wing parties support, we have some of the best paid bus and rail drivers in the world and also one of the most expensive public transports network in the world.

40% of the country on medical cards.
Pretty high unemployment benefits which are well more generous than other EU countries and are given on a permanent basis unlike other EU countries.

Single mothers can easily get rent allowance for housing which is not in all other EU countries.

Child benefit (yes a financial benefit for increasing the population) which they dont have in other Eu countries.

Cheaper education than most other EU countries.

A water service that is in need of costly repairs and restoration.

When Fianna Fail were growing the economy by creating a property boom and knocking on doors, persuading people to vote for them, those that did should be questioning why did i buy the magic beans that those clowns were selling me?

When people hear sinn fein, socialist party etc, talk how we should not have any of the new taxes being introduced, for the people who trust their policies , do you not feel as silly and stupid as the people who years ago bought the magic beans that Fianna Faill sold people at the doorsteps?

What economic evidence or financial data have people who support sinn fein seen that proves we can avoid such taxes and maintain the current services?

If you have seen no evidence and still trust in their policies, how is it not the

equivalent to buying magic beans?

dark crystal · 25-05-2014 12:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But they get bailed out by money coming from Britain every year, easy to block when someone else is paying.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They just can't win with some, can they?

Barely There · 25-05-2014 12:12PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They just can't win with some, can they?

Great answer:rolleyes:

Banjo String · 25-05-2014 12:14PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Personally I would do away with the whole political system. Who needs them. And that would save enough to pay our Social Welfare bill for a whole day.

SF doing very well in Dundalk too I see.

Sharkey and Corrigan absolutely had landslide victories. Not looking too bright for FG though.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/elections/local-elections/louth

When are the full results due?

dark crystal · 25-05-2014 12:15PM

Barely There wrote: »

Great answer:rolleyes:

Almost as good as yours!

If they had introduced water charges, they would have gotten stick. When they blocked water charges, they're still getting stick!

What should they have done in your opinion?

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-05-2014 12:18PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Who do we apply to for the refund of the property tax?

FG & Labour

Banjo String · 25-05-2014 12:18PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Almost as good as yours!

If they had introduced water charges, they would have gotten stick. When they blocked water charges, they're still getting stick!

What should they have done in your opinion?

I'm pretty sure you're questioning a machine here tbh.

Same stock replies each time, it's like he has a script that he will not veer from.

Bannasidhe · 25-05-2014 12:20PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But they get bailed out by money coming from Britain every year, easy to block when someone else is paying.

NI gets a set amount of money which is decided in London. The Northern Assembly cannot raise more funds. That was London's decision not the Northern Assembly's.

It is disingenuous to call it a 'bailout' - it is their budget as determined by Westminster. Westminster could - if it desired - allow NI to control it's own finances but it preferred to reserve a great deal of control.

Nor are SF the only party in power in NI - they share power so any criticism of the actions of the NI Assembly can equally be laid at the door of the DUP/SDLP/UUP/Alliance all of whom form the government.

dxhound2005 · 25-05-2014 12:22PM

Banjo String wrote: »

SF doing very well in Dundalk too I see.

Sharkey and Corrigan absolutely had landslide victories. Not looking too bright for FG though.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/elections/local-elections/louth

When are the full results due?

We will be getting our property tax money back soon. Shame they won't do the same in Newry. Some all island party.

Bannasidhe · 25-05-2014 12:23PM

lightspeed wrote: »

Sinn Fein and Socialist, People before profit are all selling people magic beans.

Ming would never have got elected were there not a market for his magic beans.

I think if anybody wanted to get elected into politics, all you need to do is knock on doors and tell people that there should be no water tax, property tax, no cuts to child welfare, tax higher earners more, invest more in education, health service, public transport.

Completely disregard, financial and economic realities though. That is a must.

We are still spending more than we take in, sill have large debt to repay, people are living longer with no cuts to the pension and yet the fund for that was used for the banks. Huge overspend in health care. Thanks to the unions these left wing parties support, we have some of the best paid bus and rail drivers in the world and also one of the most expensive public transports network in the world.

40% of the country on medical cards.
Pretty high unemployment benefits which are well more generous than other EU countries and are given on a permanent basis unlike other EU countries.

Single mothers can easily get rent allowance for housing which is not in all other EU countries.

Child benefit (yes a financial benefit for increasing the population) which they dont have in other Eu countries.

Cheaper education than most other EU countries.

A water service that is in need of costly repairs and restoration.

When Fianna Fail were growing the economy by creating a property boom and knocking on doors, persuading people to vote for them, those that did should be questioning why did i buy the magic beans that those clowns were selling me?

When people hear sinn fein, socialist party etc, talk how we should not have any of the new taxes being introduced, for the people who trust their policies , do you not feel as silly and stupid as the people who years ago bought the magic beans that Fianna Faill sold people at the doorsteps?

What economic evidence or financial data have people who support sinn fein seen that proves we can avoid such taxes and maintain the current services?

If you have seen no evidence and still trust in their policies, how is it not the

equivalent to buying magic beans?

Would those be anything like the 5 point magic beans FG were selling before the last GE?

Red Nissan · 25-05-2014 12:25PM

Woodville56 wrote: »

Like Gerry Adams yeah ??? Eyes Wide Shut to ...child abuse.....the disappeared....Jean McConville.....

And SF gonna save Irish Society ....really Red Nissan ?

Gerry was far from being alone in this regard, especially towards child abuse. The military wing are understood to be responsible for the disappeared.

They were also infiltrated by both Governments who arranged disappearances and bombings in their name, other subversive organisations also committed atrocities and pinned it on the larger SF groups.

We are now a few years on and SF candidates have been elected by a LOW poll in record numbers, so much so that some analysis's think they could be in power in 2016.

One might be surprised where one's skeleton in the cupboard is really to be found.

Banjo String · 25-05-2014 12:27PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We will be getting our property tax money back soon. Shame they won't do the same in Newry. Some all island party.

I for one would welcome domestic rates. But only if we get the same services they receive in Newry.

SF majority council in Dundalk, and Gerry Adams has hinted at running another candidate alongside him in the general election.

That will scare Peter Fitzpatrick I'd imagine. That'll take the wind out of his sails.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/gerry-adams-could-have-a-running-mate-in-general-election-30301541.html

The Diabolical Monocle · 25-05-2014 12:28PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Gerry was far from being alone in this regard, especially towards child abuse. The military wing are understood to be responsible for the disappeared.

They were also infiltrated by both Governments who arranged disappearances and bombings in their name, other subversive organisations also committed atrocities and pinned it on the larger SF groups.

We are now a few years on and SF candidates have been elected by a LOW poll in record numbers, so much so that some analysis's think they could be in power in 2016.

One might be surprised where one's skeleton in the cupboard is really to be found.

Is it in the cupboard ?

dxhound2005 · 25-05-2014 12:35PM

Banjo String wrote: »

I for one would welcome domestic rates. But only if we get the same services they receive in Newry.

SF majority council in Dundalk, and Gerry Adams has hinted at running another candidate alongside him in the general election.

That will scare Peter Fitzpatrick I'd imagine. That'll take the wind out of his sails.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/gerry-adams-could-have-a-running-mate-in-general-election-30301541.html

You won't get domestic rates under SF, in fact there won't be any property taxes or local charges of any kind. FF will show them how to do this magic.

The people in the North are paying big money for their services. Not only massive property tax compared to here but they have to fund 80% of the spending on top of that from their other taxes. Or someone has to on their behalf.

lightspeed · 25-05-2014 12:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Would those be anything like the 5 point magic beans FG were selling before the last GE?

Good point. They would be pretty much the same.

I not sure if FG were as bad as Labour though. I could be wrong but if memory serves me correctly, FG did not say there would be no water charges or property taxes before the last general election.

Labour on the other hand were stupid enough to write a lot of cheques that they knew they were never going to be able to cash.

I do recall FG saying that there would be not one more red cent put into the banks when they first got in which was either a poor miscalculation or more selling of magic beans.

Im not saying FG is any better who have not also sold people a heap of magic bean talk.

Im just saying, there has no been any evidence to show that a country with the services we provide and the level of debt we have, can maintain those services without cuts or increase taxes or both.

So if people know that sinn fein are selling magic beans, why dont they feel foolish buying them?

Red Nissan · 25-05-2014 12:37PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Is it in the cupboard ?

Aiy, indeed it is, but which one? They are not all in my house you know.

Reformed Character · 25-05-2014 12:38PM

Banjo String wrote: »

I for one would welcome domestic rates. But only if we get the same services they receive in Newry.

SF majority council in Dundalk, and Gerry Adams has hinted at running another candidate alongside him in the general election.

That will scare Peter Fitzpatrick I'd imagine. That'll take the wind out of his sails.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/gerry-adams-could-have-a-running-mate-in-general-election-30301541.html

I think you are confusing biggest party with majority, even if all their candidates were elected they wouldn't have a majority.

Banjo String · 25-05-2014 12:40PM

upyores wrote: »

I think you are confusing biggest party with majority, even if all their candidates were elected they wouldn't have a majority.

The majority of councillors elected so far in Dundalk are SF councillors.

Duiske · 25-05-2014 12:41PM

Woodville56 wrote: »

Tomorrow it's back to the real world , can't wait to see SF deliver now that they have the endorsement of their adoring if misguided electorate ! Happy days , no more austerity, no more tax increases .. right ?? Well that what ye're promising isn't it ??

Seems that you yourself may be a bit more misguided than a large percentage of the electorate. Most of the electorate would realise that the elections on Friday were local elections, not a general election, and that County Councils have no say in taxation policy.

Reformed Character · 25-05-2014 12:44PM

Banjo String wrote: »

The majority of councillors elected so far in Dundalk are SF councillors.

There is no council in Dundalk, and there are two LEA's in the Dundalk area and even there SF cannot end up with a majority having fielded only 6 candidates in 12 seats. Apologies if I was reading you wrong, but you're post seemed to infer they had a majority on a council.

Way to go Sinn Fein

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