Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

_Kaiser_ · 10-05-2014 5:40pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

RTE is reporting that Sgt McCabe's full access to the PULSE computer system has at last been restored.

I wonder has IT put a watch on his account though?

tayto lover · 10-05-2014 6:11pm

They can change any position they want in the Justice Dept and Garda BUT until political appointments stop and people are promoted on ability instead of which party they support then things will not change too much.

Garda members and Judges should be independently appointed.

Also I am led to believe that a lot of the problems in the Garda since 207 have been caused by there being too many retirements of experienced personnel caused by the down-turn in the economy. This has left a younger Garda force with little direction and lacking in know-how who seem to be bluffing their way through investigations.

Not good enough.

Busted Flat. · 10-05-2014 6:37pm

tayto lover wrote: »

They can change any position they want in the Justice Dept and Garda BUT until political appointments stop and people are promoted on ability instead of which party they support then things will not change too much.

Garda members and Judges should be independently appointed.

Also I am led to believe that a lot of the problems in the Garda since 207 have been caused by there being too many retirements of experienced personnel caused by the down-turn in the economy. This has left a younger Garda force with little direction and lacking in know-how who seem to be bluffing their way through investigations.

Not good enough.

The rot is at the top and always has been, there will be no improvement in the organization till the top echelons are removed and a outside Commissioner appointed and allowed to appoint his new commanders at the top.

tayto lover · 10-05-2014 6:54pm

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The rot is at the top and always has been, there will be no improvement in the organization till the top echelons are removed and a outside Commissioner appointed and allowed to appoint his new commanders at the top.

I wouldn't allow the Commissioner to hand-pick his lieutenants either.
They should be independently picked by a proper selection board.
Too many like-minded people can lead to disaster. You need people of all views to provide balance.

Busted Flat. · 10-05-2014 8:21pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I wouldn't allow the Commissioner to hand-pick his lieutenants either.
They should be independently picked by a proper selection board.
Too many like-minded people can lead to disaster. You need people of all views to provide balance.

To clean this mess up, you need a new Commissioner that has no contact with the force, and be allowed to bring in his own team to handle it. Give him a time limit to sort it out.

tayto lover · 11-05-2014 5:04pm

Varadkar now bandwagoning again.
Why was he so silent in the past?

tiredofthis · 11-05-2014 5:12pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Varadkar now bandwagoning again.
Why was he so silent in the past?

He did speak up for the whistleblowers before they were vindicated by the Garda Inspectorate Report. It's true he said nothing in public about Minister Shatter's treatment of them.

tayto lover · 11-05-2014 5:44pm

tiredofthis wrote: »

He did speak up for the whistleblowers before they were vindicate by the Garda Inspectorate Report. It's true he said nothing in public about Minister Shatter's treatment of them.

He was happy with the status quo before any of this broke. Now he wants to be seen as one of the good guys in order to further his career i'd say.
Cute hoorism.

bajer101 · 11-05-2014 11:42pm

If we cast our minds back a few weeks we may recall that the government attempted to kick all of these issues into touch with the announcement that there was a serious issue relating to the taping of phone calls in Garda stations. The more astute observers recognised this for what it was - a smokescreen. Where is this nonsense story now? Where are the all the anticipated appeals? Where are the criminals roaming the streets as a result of this? No one has been released and not one successful appeal. We should not let that little sidebar be forgotten as it is a perfect example of how this administration has tried to hoodwink us all. We pay their wages and they work for us, but they take our money and use it to try and deceive us.

Nothing to see here, move along. GSOC being bugged by AGS! How dare they even hint at that. We'll just stand up in the Dail and shout them down and show them who's in charge. Except that those days are gone. They haven't quite cottoned onto the fact that if you lie, or misquote legislation, you will be caught out in minutes and your lies will be all over social media before your buddies have stopped chuckling in the chamber. They don't get it yet because there is still a large raft of party first neanderthals still willing to put their posters up and canvas for them. But I think the penny may be beginning to drop. The forthcoming elections will be a rude awakening.

charlie14 · 13-05-2014 5:59pm

tayto lover wrote: »

He was happy with the status quo before any of this broke. Now he wants to be seen as one of the good guys in order to further his career i'd say.
Cute hoorism.

Total opportunist, but showed he has a good nose with his remarks on Callinan as to how the wind is blowing with the general public and their feeling on garda winks, nods and favouritism too the chosen few.

Hootanany · 13-05-2014 6:06pm

bajer101 wrote: »

If we cast our minds back a few weeks we may recall that the government attempted to kick all of these issues into touch with the announcement that there was a serious issue relating to the taping of phone calls in Garda stations. The more astute observers recognised this for what it was - a smokescreen. Where is this nonsense story now? Where are the all the anticipated appeals? Where are the criminals roaming the streets as a result of this? No one has been released and not one successful appeal. We should not let that little sidebar be forgotten as it is a perfect example of how this administration has tried to hoodwink us all. We pay their wages and they work for us, but they take our money and use it to try and deceive us.

Nothing to see here, move along. GSOC being bugged by AGS! How dare they even hint at that. We'll just stand up in the Dail and shout them down and show them who's in charge. Except that those days are gone. They haven't quite cottoned onto the fact that if you lie, or misquote legislation, you will be caught out in minutes and your lies will be all over social media before your buddies have stopped chuckling in the chamber. They don't get it yet because there is still a large raft of party first neanderthals still willing to put their posters up and canvas for them. But I think the penny may be beginning to drop. The forthcoming elections will be a rude awakening.

Top post sire

_Kaiser_ · 20-05-2014 6:03pm

.. and to top it all off:

It has emerged that Alan Shatter is entitled to severance pay of over €70,000 despite resigning as the Minister for Justice.

The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has confirmed that the Dublin South TD is entitled to severance pay of €70,282.

The severance pay comes despite TDs passing laws to abolish the severance payments last month.

That is because the appropriate law was only signed into effect in the last few days after Deputy Shatter had resigned.

This in addition to his Dail salary of course! I don't buy the inevitable excuse that it's his entitlement under the current system.. we've seen this government has no problem bending, breaking or just throwing out the rules when it suits its purposes. But sure, it's no surprise - punishment and loss is only for the "little people" in Ireland. :mad:

mikom · 20-05-2014 6:20pm

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

.. and to top it all off:

This in addition to his Dail salary of course! I don't buy the inevitable excuse that it's his entitlement under the current system.. we've seen this government has no problem bending, breaking or just throwing out the rules when it suits its purposes. But sure, it's no surprise - punishment and loss is only for the "little people" in Ireland. :mad:

He who laughs last.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ioiag30eAI

Going Forward · 21-05-2014 8:51am

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

.. and to top it all off:

This in addition to his Dail salary of course! I don't buy the inevitable excuse that it's his entitlement under the current system.. we've seen this government has no problem bending, breaking or just throwing out the rules when it suits its purposes. But sure, it's no surprise - punishment and loss is only for the "little people" in Ireland. :mad:

Instead of Enda and Leo saying they think Alan should not take the severance pay, why not withhold it, if it's not already been paid?

Would Alan contest it?

kippy · 21-05-2014 9:20am

Going Forward wrote: »

Instead of Enda and Leo saying they think Alan should not take the severance pay, why not withhold it, if it's not already been paid?

Would Alan contest it?

As already mentioned. The guy made some serious errors of judgement and didnt correctly do his job. He willingly quit the job also. In my opinion there is no reason for the guy to get a severance package at all, let along one almost twice the average wage.
I know if I quit my job in the morning I wouldnt be getting anything but my P45, and if I had performed in my role in the manner that shatter did the past few months I'd probably have my employers looking for money off me.

So the points are these
1. Why should he get a severence package when he quit?
2. Why should the tax payer foot the bill for this?
3. If the government are serious about change, why dont they treat their own people the same way they treat everyone else?
4. It is amazing to see how many pay and condition related changes have happened in this state at the stroke of a pen. (Income changes for public servants, tax changes for all, including USC, Dipping into pension funds, changes to terms of pensions etc etc) yet there are certain things that cannot be changed (the severence terms of senior politicians and public servants, the grossly overpaid pensions of retired politicians etc).
Why is this?

Busted Flat. · 21-05-2014 10:01am

Leo said on morning Ireland, the severence package was to be signed after the reshuffel. Was that to allow ministers to claim the largess if they were dropped from cabinet. Curious statement.

Going Forward · 21-05-2014 10:41pm

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Leo said on morning Ireland, the severence package was to be signed after the reshuffel. Was that to allow ministers to claim the largess if they were dropped from cabinet. Curious statement.

Heard him, sounds like it.

Brendan Howlin didnt sign off on it:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0520/618594-alan-shatter/

The Government view:
"Asked about the Taoiseach's position on the issue, a Government spokesperson said it has been clear Government policy to end severance payments to former ministers, and that "everyone should adhere to that - including Alan".

Call his bluff.

tayto lover · 21-05-2014 10:46pm

I am predicting that a big announcement will be made tomorrow just before the Friday elections --

"Alan Shatter has decided not to take the 70K he was due".

Opportunists.

Busted Flat. · 21-05-2014 10:53pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I am predicting that a big announcement will be made tomorrow just before the Friday elections --

"Alan Shatter has decided not to take the 70K he was due".

Opportunists.

I would not agree, there's more going on behind the scenes. It could be related to my bad mind.

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2014 8:08am

tayto lover wrote: »

I am predicting that a big announcement will be made tomorrow just before the Friday elections --

"Alan Shatter has decided not to take the 70K he was due".

Opportunists.

I think you're right...

ALAN SHATTER COULD be about to break his silence on whether he will be accepting just over €70,000 of severance payments.

The former Minister for Justice has told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland that he will be making a statement on the matter later this afternoon.

(from here)

... Right in time for the evening news on the night before the election.

Coincidence? Hmm.........

Shady Tady · 22-05-2014 8:32am

He's arrogant enough to take it and I hope he does, even if he comes out now and says he's not taking it the good is gone out of the announcement, maybe he wants to hurt Kenny a little and will let it hang until the election is over. He'll suit himself in any event

Busted Flat. · 22-05-2014 8:39am

Shady Tady wrote: »

He's arrogant enough to take it and I hope he does, even if he comes out now and says he's not taking it the good is gone out of the announcement, maybe he wants to hurt Kenny a little and will let it hang until the election is over. He'll suit himself in any event

The announcement is at the start of the election moratorium, reporting has to be restricted to what he says.

Shady Tady · 22-05-2014 8:47am

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The announcement is at the start of the election moratorium, reporting has to be restricted to what he says.

He's nasty enough to drop a clanger this afternoon at the announcement, whats with all this hype, either say yes or no and get off the ****ing stage!

mike65 · 22-05-2014 8:53am

I'm making a statement from the plinth of my front door at 1 pm to inform you all of the contents of my lunch.

There will no statements released until that time.

Thank you.

Sierra Oscar · 22-05-2014 11:38am

Will Shatter announce his resignation from the Dáil during his statement at 14:30?

Busted Flat. · 22-05-2014 11:46am

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Will Shatter announce his resignation from the Dáil during his statement at 14:30?

That's what all this is about, chairman kenny didn't even speak to him about the €70k. Hopefully he is annoyed enough to let fly. Could be an exciting evening, after all.

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2014 1:33pm

Enda is getting desperate now - Taoiseach reveals €191,000 in severance payments to former Fianna Fail ministers

While not excusing FF, and there's not many surprises on the list either, you have to LOVE his timing.

So will Shatter:

(a) Keep the money - cause shure FF did it first! (AKA the usual FG playground politics response)

(b) Refuse it - cause FG aren't as bad as FF like! (PS: Vote for us!)

Seriously, with every day this government becomes more farcical! It'd be funny if the effects of their muppetry wasn't so serious for the rest of us.

EDIT: So he's keeping approx €20k of the 70 eh? What a guy!

Sierra Oscar · 22-05-2014 1:36pm

Fine Gael have tweeted that he is giving the severance pay to charity. Fair play to him in fairness.

My name is URL · 22-05-2014 1:37pm

Alan Shatter will donate ‘around €50k’ in severance payments to Jack & Jill Foundation

http://www.thejournal.ie/alan-shatter-accepting-not-severance-payments-1478177-May2014/#comments

Damn.. that means he can't be criticised for accepting it :rolleyes:

brimal · 22-05-2014 1:47pm

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

EDIT: So he's keeping approx €20k of the 70 eh? What a guy!

The sum goes from €70k to about €50k after taxes. He's not keeping a cent of it.

awful · 22-05-2014 1:49pm

He has accepted it - which is strange seeing as he voted to end the practice while in government. He is donating to a very worthwhile cause, however the 70k could also go towards the health service - something which is also a very worthy cause.

creedp · 22-05-2014 1:57pm

awful wrote: »

He has accepted it - which is strange seeing as he voted to end the practice while in government. He is donating to a very worthwhile cause, however the 70k could also go towards the health service - something which is also a very worthy cause.

Is this different from TDs using their expenses to help local communities in order to buy votes? Bottom line he accepted the severance payment

Nodin · 22-05-2014 2:01pm

creedp wrote: »

Is this different from TDs using their expenses to help local communities in order to buy votes? Bottom line he accepted the severance payment

Very, because its not local, rather obviously.

hmmm · 22-05-2014 2:06pm

My tax money is being taken and given away to a charity, and people are applauding this as an act of "generosity"? The only generosity is the way politicians treat giving away taxpayers money as some sort of act of charity on their behalf.

Larbre34 · 22-05-2014 2:13pm

Good old Shatter, being a **** to everyone to the last. Hes accepting, yet not accepting it. He wont help Fine Gael for tomorrow, but wont aim to hurt them either.

Its an unsatisfactory situation from everyones point of view, except of course Jack & Jill, who come to think of it would probably pay 50k to not have their name even remotely mentioned with this whole grimy business.

brimal · 22-05-2014 2:17pm

To all the naysayers - would you rather he not accept the severance pay and the sum gets swallowed up by the government budget, potentially being spent/wasted on something not as important?

€70k is a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, government departments can easily blow this and more on something meaningless. It is a huge sum for a charity, press are saying largest single donation this year.

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2014 2:18pm

brimal wrote: »

To all the naysayers - would you rather he not accept the severance pay and the sum gets swallowed up by the government budget, potentially being spent/wasted on something not as important?

€70k is a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, government departments can easily blow this and more on something meaningless. It is a huge sum for a charity, press are saying largest single donation this year.

But its spread over several years is it not?

Also what guarantee have we that he will in fact donate it all after the current attention has died off?

Alan_P · 22-05-2014 2:21pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its an unsatisfactory situation from everyones point of view, except of course Jack & Jill, who come to think of it would probably pay 50k to not have their name even remotely mentioned with this whole grimy business.

Since the founder and CEO of Jack and Jill was standing beside Shatter as he made the announcement, we can reasonably assume they're happy to accept the money.

hmmm · 22-05-2014 2:23pm

brimal wrote: »

To all the naysayers - would you rather he not accept the severance pay and the sum gets swallowed up by the government budget, potentially being spent/wasted on something not as important?

I'd prefer if politicians didn't see taxpayers money as some sort of pool of money to be spent as they see fit. If they have no use for it, reduce the level of taxes.

€70k is a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, government departments can easily blow this and more on something meaningless.

Oh well that makes it ok then. I hate this attitude - people work hard for their money.

It is a huge sum for a charity, press are saying largest single donation this year.

Great for them. If I wanted to give them money I'd give it to them myself.

brimal · 22-05-2014 2:31pm

hmmm wrote: »

I'd prefer if politicians didn't see taxpayers money as some sort of pool of money to be spent as they see fit. If they have no use for it, reduce the level of taxes.

That's fine. The severance pay rule is abolished now, Shatter was the last person to avail of it. But that was not the choice Shatter had to make. So I'll ask you again to answer my question please.

hmmm wrote: »

Oh well that makes it ok then. I hate this attitude - people work hard for their money.

I mean in terms of government spending it is a small sum. I work hard for my money too and it would be a huge sum for me. Honestly I think you are just looking for something to be outraged about.

hmmm wrote: »

Great for them. If I wanted to give them money I'd give it to them myself.

Again, I'll ask you to answer my question please, would you rather Shatter keep the money for himself, give it back to government or give to charity? That was the only choice.

John_C · 22-05-2014 2:33pm

brimal wrote: »

To all the naysayers - would you rather he not accept the severance pay and the sum gets swallowed up by the government budget, potentially being spent/wasted on something not as important?

I can only answer for myself but I'd prefer if he didn't take it at all.

The opposite argument - that the Government can't be trusted to spend money wisely - would be fine if he weren't a government TD himself.

Busted Flat. · 22-05-2014 2:37pm

Does he donate the money after tax, as he stated the amount to be €34k.

John_C · 22-05-2014 2:40pm

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Does he donate the money after tax, as he stated the amount to be €34k.

Yeah but the charity can claim a certain amount of the tax back so it comes up to 50k for them.

golfball37 · 22-05-2014 2:53pm

The cynic in me is wondering who is on the baord of the Jack and Jill foundation and what are her/his connections to FG?

Busted Flat. · 22-05-2014 3:11pm

John_C wrote: »

Yeah but the charity can claim a certain amount of the tax back so it comes up to 50k for them.

How does that work, surly he has to receive the payment first, in order to pas it on to the charity.

latynova · 22-05-2014 3:19pm

Now that this charity is going to have *our* money I would like to inspect its accounts and know who sits on its board, etc.

My name is URL · 22-05-2014 3:23pm

golfball37 wrote: »

The cynic in me is wondering who is on the baord of the Jack and Jill foundation and what are her/his connections to FG?

Well Shatter and Jonathan Irwin have been 'close friends' for years, apparently.

Irwin has allowed himself to be used in a political stunt here

John_C · 22-05-2014 3:28pm

Busted Flat. wrote: »

How does that work, surly he has to receive the payment first, in order to pas it on to the charity.

Same as any other charity payment I presume. He'll give them the cash and they'll claim the tax back.

hmmm · 22-05-2014 4:07pm

brimal wrote: »

I mean in terms of government spending it is a small sum. I work hard for my money too and it would be a huge sum for me. Honestly I think you are just looking for something to be outraged about.

This goes to the heart of a long running problem with Irish governments (of all persuasions). Taxpayers money is seen as a slush fund to be handed out by politicians. The expert here was Charlie Haughey, who'd increase taxes and then hand out "entitlements". Ah but sure Charlie was great, didn't he give us the "free travel". Taxpayers are entitled to get value for the money they are paying over, and your blase attitude that "sure they'd just waste it somewhere else" is exactly the type of attitude that causes us to have a high tax and low government services economy. We shouldn't accept any politician bribing us with our own money.

Again, I'll ask you to answer my question please, would you rather Shatter keep the money for himself, give it back to government or give to charity? That was the only choice.

He could have refused the money. Full stop. The same way as politicians who are taking the minimum wage while accepting their full salaries are leeching off the working person who pays tax.

latynova · 22-05-2014 7:07pm

However, it was his legal right to accept the money. That Enda Kenny urged him not to avail of his legal right is crazy, i.e., that the laws of the land don't apply. Next thing people will be held to contracts that they haven't signed, etc. It was his right, like it or not, and nobody should have to forgo their right.

Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

Comments