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Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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Comments

  • #9242
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    TheDoc wrote: »
    He is "supposidly" a big character at the club, typical the manager aligns himself with a big character for a big game. Personally never got the Evra being a leader ****, that's great how he gives it loads in the dressing room, he shrugs and could barely shake a branch on the pitch. Hardly someone wthat would inspire me anyway.

    I think critical to tonight is going to be defensive shape. Evra be it through sheer lack of effort, or genuinelly loosing his legs, has exposed viciously this year that he cant run the line for 90 minutes. So he will need to stick at left back, somewhat nullfying the ability to break quickly.

    If Evra gets sucked into those counter attacks, and if he starts he will, he doesn't have the legs to get back to shrink the space, and Gotze, Robben or Ribery will gobble it up.

    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012


  • #9243
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    zerks wrote: »
    Anybody notice how Robben moved infield to try to target Vidic's lack of pace in the first leg,he got so little from running at Buttner,he pretty much gave up trying it.Evra would have been a different story as Robben would have had the freedom of OT.I'm dreading to think what could happen down that side tonight as Evra strolls around on the halfway line as Robben waves him goodbye while running in behind him.

    there seemed to be a plan there. I noticed Buttner nearly standing off Robben at times showing him on the inside. You could see from some replays when he moved in, DDG adjusting his starting position.

    Possibly something worked on or just happened, but its no secret what Robben does, he shifts on the inside and bends a shot into the far corner.


  • #9244
    Benson Old Antifreeze
    Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭ Benson Old Antifreeze


    bangkok wrote: »
    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012
    Yes but he is past it now, time for him to go at the end of the season.


  • #9245
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    bangkok wrote: »
    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012

    Maybe 2007-2010 but best in the world is debatable. Hes been slowing up the last few years.


  • #9246
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Can't see what the argument for ever playing Evra is. Terrible at attacking and defending over a very large sample.

    how is he terrible at attacking??? a goal and 5 assists in the league this season and was the highest scoring defender last year as far as I remember.... prob has more assists that most of our midfield combined apart from mata!!


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  • #9247
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    United to win, Pep to quit to become Moyes' assistant and learn from the football genius.


  • #9248
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    M!Ck^ wrote: »
    Yes but he is past it now, time for him to go at the end of the season.

    agreed but he should still start tonight,


  • #9249
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    bangkok wrote: »
    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012

    There no hate, and there is no disputing his service. But there comes a point in time, similar to Ferdinand and Vidic this year, where age just catches up and there is a drastic drop in standards that noticable.

    Evra was a fantastic left back, this year he is puffing and panting, he hasn't adjusted his game. He still tries to bomb forward and doesn't have the legs to get him bak into position. It's being blatantly obvious all season.

    I've no problem with Evra, a good servant who was a vital cog in a powerful defence, but there comes a time for every player when unfortunately they just can't do it anymore. And the longer it continues sometimes it can damage a legacy.

    There is no "hate" coming from me, just very accurate and what appears to be obvious evidence that either through lazyness from the very public search for his replacement, or via simply age, he has been positionally poison this term and is an obvious weak link for teams to exploit.


  • #9250
    A Brad Maddox Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭A Brad Maddox Guy


    bangkok wrote: »
    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012

    2012 is pushing it. Evra has been on a downhill slope for a good 3 years now. It's just this season the slope seemed to meet a cliff...


  • #9251
    Benson Old Antifreeze
    Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭ Benson Old Antifreeze


    bangkok wrote: »
    agreed but he should still start tonight,

    Several reasons above already in why he should not start tonight.


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  • #9252
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    but lads Buttner......one good performance doesn't swing it for me.... evra is a warrior and we need a goal tonight or we are out.


  • #9253
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    M!Ck^ wrote: »
    Several reasons above already in why he should not start tonight.

    Agreed, having "experience" is one thing, but experience doesn't make up for the 5 yards you can't cover anymore cause your legs won't take you there.

    Buttner obviously doesn't have the same experience working in that backline, and at this level, but his pace and stamina ensures he can be in a defensive shape, while also springing forward into attack. One of the really encouraging signs from the first leg, and even his introduction against Newcastle is how quickly he transitions from defense to attack.

    This allows someone like Kagawa of the left, to drift infield while maintaining some width. And he has a wicked left foot. Granted a few misfires but when they come off, they have serious pace, curling into an oncoming attacker, that's a textbook receipe for the perfect cross and he hits a fair amount. He hit an amazing cross in the first leg no one got onto.

    Under rated skill lashing a good cross like that at full pelt.


  • #9254
    IamtheWalrus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,075 ✭✭✭IamtheWalrus


    I'd be a little cautious about playing Buttner, good performance in first leg or not. Very volatile player and could see an error gifting Bayern a goal. Tonight is a night for experienced players.


  • #9255
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    bangkok wrote: »
    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012

    It's 2014 now,no hate for Paddy,it's just that he's not up to the job anymore.

    Admit it,you've even roared at the tv for him to get back into position and actually defend instead of passing the buck.

    Look at the heat maps for Evra & Jones from the City game,shows how he was rarely in position which led to Jones being dragged wide to cover for him and do the job for 2 men.
    http://epl.squawka.com/manchester-united-vs-manchester-city/25-03-2014/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

    Here's the one from the Liverpool game,different CB's same thing.

    http://epl.squawka.com/manchester-united-vs-liverpool/16-03-2014/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

    Teams know they can exploit his lack of workrate at tracking back,his favourite part of the pitch seems to be the halfway line.


  • #9256
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    IamtheWalrus wrote: »
    I'd be a little cautious about playing Buttner, good performance in first leg or not. Very volatile player and could see an error gifting Bayern a goal. Tonight is a night for experienced players.


    yes totally agreed. evra is still a massive player but is he injured? went off against newcastle


  • #9257
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    zerks wrote: »
    Teams know they can exploit his lack of workrate at tracking back,his favourite part of the pitch seems to be the halfway line.

    I thought ti was workrate, tbh I think it's just his legs wont carry him anymore. I decided this for defo in the Liverpool game when Evra got caught out yet again and before a corner Vidic went over and you could see the hands saying for him to stop running forward and to stay more back, that when he runs forward he needs to get back.

    Evra's eyes widened and he shrugged his shoulders with a big puff.

    Not every player likes to admit when they are struggling. Reading books like Neville, Scholes, Zidane, Bergkamp and McGrath, they all have pivotal moments where they realised that they were finished. Some of them recall how they went to the manager, or maybe a coach either as the game ended or next training session and said they were done, others recalled how they knew players that had experienced the moment, but chose to ignore it in the hope "experience" would hold value for them and get them by.

    Fergie in his books, both of them, talks about how his most painful moments in the dugout are when he sees a player that has served him so well, starting to show the signs and the drop. He mentions that most times the player came to him first saying they felt they couldnt manage it anymore, and other times he recalls having to speak to the player, and let them know their time had come.

    I think there needs to be some responsability both for Moyes and Evra here. Buttner should have had alot more involvement this year, with Evra coming in for some big games. I was infuriated for the majority of the season, roaring at ~Evra, but now its nearly turned to pity the last few outings.


  • #9258
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    TheDoc wrote: »
    ----Kroos
    Fellaini---
    Reus
    Mata----Kagawa
    Rooney

    Note the absence of RVP there :(

    Football Manager type stuff, I usually don't subscribe to "teams on paper" but my lordy, that's some serious <insert Kagawa smiley face>

    It's only two signings. Not total fantasy. Would be amazing to get both of them. Both fairly young players too mmmmm
    Krues out to kagamata, slips it through to roobeck!!!


  • #9259
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    bangkok wrote: »
    yes totally agreed. evra is still a massive player but is he injured? went off against newcastle

    In the interest of balance and maybe expanding my views, can you explain how exactly Evra has been/ still is a massive player?

    I don't buy into this "big character in the dressing room "bull****, he comes accross extremely uninspirational and I rarely see him show any signs of a good captain on the field. And when your own game is in the pits and your struggling, I find it hard to know how your giving a lift or benefit to the team, like a massive player should.

    De Gea is a massive player. As the last time of defence, he gives security to a defense who know they have an incredible goalkeeper behind them, improving as he claims more and more crosses, and that any shot that goes through has every chance of being saved.

    Rooney is massive player. Endless work rate to fight for the ball over every inch, combined with technical ability to score or create chances with others. His work rate absolutely embarrasses other players in the team.

    I fail to see how Evra is anything other then living on "experience" at this point, which as I said means ****s all when your five yards of the pace : /


  • #9260
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    TheDoc wrote: »
    I thought ti was workrate, tbh I think it's just his legs wont carry him anymore. I decided this for defo in the Liverpool game when Evra got caught out yet again and before a corner Vidic went over and you could see the hands saying for him to stop running forward and to stay more back, that when he runs forward he needs to get back.

    Evra's eyes widened and he shrugged his shoulders with a big puff.

    Not every player likes to admit when they are struggling. Reading books like Neville, Scholes, Zidane, Bergkamp and McGrath, they all have pivotal moments where they realised that they were finished. Some of them recall how they went to the manager, or maybe a coach either as the game ended or next training session and said they were done, others recalled how they knew players that had experienced the moment, but chose to ignore it in the hope "experience" would hold value for them and get them by.

    Fergie in his books, both of them, talks about how his most painful moments in the dugout are when he sees a player that has served him so well, starting to show the signs and the drop. He mentions that most times the player came to him first saying they felt they couldnt manage it anymore, and other times he recalls having to speak to the player, and let them know their time had come.

    I think there needs to be some responsability both for Moyes and Evra here. Buttner should have had alot more involvement this year, with Evra coming in for some big games. I was infuriated for the majority of the season, roaring at ~Evra, but now its nearly turned to pity the last few outings.

    I put up a post a few days ago identifying evras mistakes that cost us goals late in games. Think it was 9 points dropped because of them.
    He's been in decline for a couple of years. Should have been replaced last summer


  • #9261
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    redbaron_99 wrote: »
    It's only two signings. Not total fantasy. Would be amazing to get both of them. Both fairly young players too mmmmm
    Krues out to kagamata, slips it through to roobeck!!!

    Both with the same agent ;)

    I'm going to my positivity chair for a bit


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  • #9262
    Your Airbag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Your Airbag


    Evra is clearly the better overall player but lately he has been lazy as hell getting back. He doesn't have age on his side anymore either.

    Plus he has got a bit of an ego about him. He has done one or two interviews this season about the players needing to step up and take responsibility only to go on and look completetly disinterested in defending in matches for us, especially late on. Personally he has been responsible for more dropped points than any other player this season.

    If he is on the pitch and bombing forward and then strolling back Bayern will drag our CB's and defense to hell with Evra a few yards behind the play watching it all unfold in front of him as he saunters back in time to pick the ball out of net.

    Buttner did a very positionally disciplined performance in the first leg. He knew holding the defensive shape and cover forthe closest CB was important in that match more than any other because even when we got the ball from Bayern seconds later they would have it and both winger and full back would be down that wing keeping the UTD defense occupied.


  • #9263
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    TheDoc wrote: »
    Both with the same agent ;)

    I'm going to my positivity chair for a bit

    Out if interest, if one signed for us, do you think it could encourage the other to sign a swell?


  • #9264
    Macca07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Macca07


    Ernest Oreo wrote: »
    ok.
    watch the game unfold this evening.
    i can guarantee you that should a goal be scored within the first 20 mins of the tie tonight, regardless of what team scores it, you will see United bowing out of the CL for 2013/14.
    a strong basis for this is a critical differentiator between moyes and pep.

    tactical nous is crucial at this point of the competition.
    Klopp nearly overturned a headless RM last night.
    Larry White looked clueless for most of his visit to the Bridge.

    Well obviously if Bayern score the first and only goal of the game, whether it's the 1st minute or 90th minute, we're out. An early goal will only be an advantage to us. We need to score, end of. The sooner the better. If we score early, then Bayern will have to attack us. The more the games go on, the better chance we have of scoring a second.

    I do see your point, but a very strange way of saying it, like a lot of your posts.


  • #9265
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,060 ✭✭✭✭adox


    bangkok wrote: »
    but lads Buttner......one good performance doesn't swing it for me.... evra is a warrior and we need a goal tonight or we are out.

    Hes not a warrior. Hes lazy at defending and leaves the left side wide open constantly, pulling one of the CBs across and leaving the defence wide open.

    Hes a liability.


  • #9266
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    adox wrote: »
    Hes not a warrior. Hes lazy at defending and leaves the left side wide open constantly, pulling one of the CBs across and leaving the defence wide open.

    Hes a liability.

    Spot on. Wasn't there a heat map from a recent game showing Vidic out of position, covering for Evra.

    Play Buttner. Evra could cost us the game tonight.
    So could Buttner...
    Now I'm scared. :(


  • #9267
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    bangkok wrote: »
    what with the evra hate, he was a massive player for us and easily the best left back in the world in 2007-2012

    Easily the second best left back in the world 2007-2011.


  • #9268
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    redbaron_99 wrote: »
    Spot on. Wasn't there a heat map from a recent game showing Vidic out of position, covering for Evra.

    Play Buttner. Evra could cost us the game tonight.
    So could Buttner...
    Now I'm scared. :(

    Here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89855513&postcount=9255


  • #9269
    2moreMinutes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭2moreMinutes


    I think tonight's a gimme for United. Bayern have a few big big players missing and Kross won't want to do anything to knock us out as I'd imagine he'd prefer to be playing Champions League next season again.


  • #9270
    redbaron_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭redbaron_99


    zerks wrote: »
    Here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89855513&postcount=9255

    That's the one yeah. damning.


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  • #9271
    KombuchaMshroom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 792 ✭✭✭KombuchaMshroom


    Does anyone remember Glenn Hoddle's ( I think he was the manager) interview after the Spurs 3-5 United match years ago. He said in the post match interview that scoring the third goal just before half time like they did was bad for the team, had they gone in leading 2-0 they would have been fine, but 3-0 was dangerous for them.

    Anyway, I for one really hope its Buttner starting tonight, provided he puts in the shift he did last week, that was better defensively than anything Evra has done in 2 years


This discussion has been closed.
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