Speed camera mega-thread Read first post before posting

ironclaw · 22-03-2014 3:14pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't get it.
If a car going past a van is recorded to be breaking the speedlimit, what difference does it make if the guy in the van is on facebook or twitter?
And mentioning the Dandy or Beano just goes to show that the judge is about 30 years out of touch with "dem modren computhers" and from my point of view about as qualified as Peig Sayers to make decisions on that topic.
He obviously doesn't understand the basic principle of an automated process, i.e. one that works whether you sit there staring at it or not.
If he expects the guy sitting in there to record ever speeding car on a notebook as well, he is obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
Leaving the whole for and against speed cameras out of the picture, the judge has decided "Ah Jaysus, I don't like dem speed cameras" and has thrown his toys out of the pram, whilst completely ignoring the law, reality and sanity altogether.
I rule this judge is most likely demented and drunk and should be removed from the bench, but really, he is just a prime example of the typical, hopped up, deluded, insane small time Irish district court judge.
He belongs in the Irish RM, but not behind a bench.
Someone drag this guy into the 20th century, nevermind the 21st...

While agree the base argument is unrealistic, the operator isn't going to have his pencil and pen ready for every car, the chain of evidence does have a major flaw in this country. There is no requirement for them (GoSafe or an Garda) that the equipment they use is fully functional and calibrated. Thats lunacy in this day and age.

So my argument is whilst automation is perfectly ok in my book, no proof of calibration for the device or even certification of the operator is not. With that case, I could just add a line of code to my software to: Speed = Speed + 5, and I'd capture a lot more people. Happy days. And there would be no onus on me to explain it. The law needs to be updated. Equipment needs certification and this should be provided to the motorist in a summons and at the side of the road. Teletraffic, the people who make the Garda Laser gun, actual advise daily calibration. I doubt this is ever conducted.

dr.fuzzenstein · 22-03-2014 6:01pm

^^^^
I do agree with that, I just doubt the judge can understand the technical issues behind it.
Also, none of those points seem to be raised in the newspaper article, but that is just the typical, lazy standard of journalism today.
The main stream press has about as much understanding of technology as my mother.
She's 78 and her idea of the pinnacle of technology is fax machines and VCR's.

blackwhite · 24-03-2014 10:04am

It sounds to me more like a case of a judge who has issues with the privatisation of speed surveillance more than anything else - and possibly that he doesn't understand the technology.

Whether or not the software is correctly calibrated, having someone watching the screen isn't going to change a thing wrt what the device records. If the law is happy that it's working correctly (which under current legislation it automatically is), then whatever it records is fairly clear evidence, regardless of whether someone (who more than likely doesn't understand how the camera works himself) was gaping gormlessly at the screen.

Iwannahurl · 24-03-2014 10:45am

Electronic evidence is objective.

The ongoing Penalty Points controversy shows what can happen when people have too much personal influence on the process.

eringobragh · 03-04-2014 7:41pm

Parked up down by the point again this evening

eringobragh · 06-04-2014 10:26pm

Another leech van spotted yesterday in the 60k zone after the airport (road to M1)

buzzing147 · 06-04-2014 10:28pm

Is that a speed van or a survey van? Surely that van there isnt a speed van?

eringobragh · 06-04-2014 10:43pm

buzzing147 wrote: »

Is that a speed van or a survey van? Surely that van there isnt a speed van?

Its a transit without the IR flash on the roof - so 100% Garda van -

eringobragh · 12-04-2014 7:52pm

2 days running the leech vans down here again:

Friday night 18:30ish outside the point:

Dashcam as playing up so no still

Tonight in the same spot as last week - seems they are trying to up their game lately.

Murphster · 12-05-2014 1:55pm

Maybe someone might answer! Was driving from Athlone to Sligo yesterday evening and before Roscommon I was just coming of a normal bendy part of the road onto a wider stretch with hard shoulders. Up ahead was a speed van pointing towards me on the right hand side and as I was near to it a flash went off above the windscreen, I looked more closely as I passed and it (either a camera/flash or both) is built in to the vans bodywork. I believe in all honesty that I was below the limit as it was quite wet and I was conciously taking it easy. Does this mean that my speed was measured from the front of the van? Does it flash at every car? Or did it flash due to fading light as it was between 7.30 - 8pm just to ensure a clear pic? Im scratching my head because it was always my belief that detection was from the rear of the van, so whats the front flash all about? .. Thanks

Murphster · 12-05-2014 1:56pm

Maybe someone might answer! Was driving from Athlone to Sligo yesterday evening and before Roscommon I was just coming of a normal bendy part of the road onto a wider stretch with hard shoulders. Up ahead was a speed van pointing towards me on the right hand side and as I was near to it a flash went off above the windscreen, I looked more closely as I passed and it (either a camera/flash or both) is built in to the vans bodywork. I believe in all honesty that I was below the limit as it was quite wet and I was conciously taking it easy. Does this mean that my speed was measured from the front of the van? Does it flash at every car? Or did it flash due to fading light as it was between 7.30 - 8pm just to ensure a clear pic? Im scratching my head because it was always my belief that detection was from the rear of the van, so whats the front flash all about? .. Thanks

ironclaw · 12-05-2014 2:24pm

Murphster wrote: »

Maybe someone might answer! Was driving from Athlone to Sligo yesterday evening and before Roscommon I was just coming of a normal bendy part of the road onto a wider stretch with hard shoulders. Up ahead was a speed van pointing towards me on the right hand side and as I was near to it a flash went off above the windscreen, I looked more closely as I passed and it (either a camera/flash or both) is built in to the vans bodywork. I believe in all honesty that I was below the limit as it was quite wet and I was conciously taking it easy. Does this mean that my speed was measured from the front of the van? Does it flash at every car? Or did it flash due to fading light as it was between 7.30 - 8pm just to ensure a clear pic? Im scratching my head because it was always my belief that detection was from the rear of the van, so whats the front flash all about? .. Thanks

The only place you can have your speed measured and a fine issued is approaching or going away from the rear of the van only.

No idea what you saw. Possibly a reflection from your own headlamps but I can assure you, from the front of the van i.e. The drivers seated position, you cannot have your speed measured or captured. All the kit is in the rear, facing away from the rear of the van.

That said, most GoSafe vans have CCTV throughout the van but these cannot be used for such purposes. Its possible, and stretch of imagination here, you saw the IR from the CCTV or a reflection of your headlights in one of the lens.

Kunkka · 21-09-2014 12:47am

Was going by Heuston tonight in Dublin towards the M50 and ran an amber light and may have been going 60 at most but I noticed a flash from a camera up on a pole on the opposite side high up will I be getting a fine in the post do ye reckon? Squeaky clean at the moment so would be annoying

mikeecho · 21-09-2014 12:56am

Kunkka wrote: »

Was going by Heuston tonight in Dublin towards the M50 and ran an amber light and may have been going 60 at most but I noticed a flash from a camera up on a pole on the opposite side high up will I be getting a fine in the post do ye reckon? Squeaky clean at the moment so would be annoying

That was a gatso gs11 unit.

Being trialled for the past year or so.

You won't get a ticket, but if lots of ppl get photoed breaking lights at those junctions, it'll only justify the introduction of red light cams, and speed on green cams

Kunkka · 21-09-2014 12:59am

mikeecho wrote: »

That was a gatso gs11 unit.

Being trialled for the past year or so.

You won't get a ticket, but if lots of ppl get photoed breaking lights at those junctions, it'll only justify the introduction of red light cams, and speed on green cams

Cheers I know I've learned my lesson I don't normally do stuff like that at all just was in the car for ages after collecting the Mrs in town. Couldn't miss the flash anyway!

Sobanek · 21-09-2014 2:54am

mikeecho wrote: »

That was a gatso gs11 unit.

Being trialled for the past year or so.

You won't get a ticket, but if lots of ppl get photoed breaking lights at those junctions, it'll only justify the introduction of red light cams, and speed on green cams

Which camera are you talking about? Haven't seen a single one around Heuston and I've been driving in this general area for about a year now.

Unless you're talking about the one here

I've went through this on amber plenty of times, but never got a ticket.

ironclaw · 21-09-2014 5:06pm

Sobanek wrote: »

Which camera are you talking about? Haven't seen a single one around Heuston and I've been driving in this general area for about a year now.

Unless you're talking about the one here

I've went through this on amber plenty of times, but never got a ticket.

Thats the one. Been there almost two years I think. Its a redlight camera and I think its only in use occasionally. I have seen it flash myself but never heard of anyone getting a fine. I don't think its operational, my presumption as mikeecho said is that its under trial.

eringobragh · 27-09-2014 9:40pm

Back in the favourite spot

Chris_Heilong · 28-09-2014 11:58am

mikeecho wrote: »

That was a gatso gs11 unit.

Being trialled for the past year or so.

You won't get a ticket, but if lots of ppl get photoed breaking lights at those junctions, it'll only justify the introduction of red light cams, and speed on green cams

I hope not, we are nanny state enough as it is.

mikeecho · 28-09-2014 1:04pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I hope not, we are nanny state enough as it is.

New cameras to catch motorists breaking red lights at Luas line
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/new-cameras-to-catch-motorists-breaking-red-lights-at-luas-lines-1.1769228

New traffic trial to picture red-light jumpers in the act
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-traffic-trial-to-picture-redlight-jumpers-in-the-act-26768087.html
New traffic trial to picture red-light jumpers in the act - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-traffic-trial-to-picture-redlight-jumpers-in-the-act-26768087.html#sthash.xSreyBW7.dpuf

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-09-2014 1:56pm

I'm all for cameras to catch people breaking red lights, in Ireland we treat red as advisory, no more than 3-4 cars after the lights change, sure, be grand, like.
Trust me, in Germany you'd stop on yellow, because getting caught going through a red is simply not worth it.
https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/rote-ampel/
€90 if you've just missed the yellow and €200 or more with points and a month off the road if you endanger someone or it has been red for more than a second. Seems fair to me.

ironclaw · 28-09-2014 3:40pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm all for cameras to catch people breaking red lights, in Ireland we treat red as advisory, no more than 3-4 cars after the lights change, sure, be grand, like.
Trust me, in Germany you'd stop on yellow, because getting caught going through a red is simply not worth it.
https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/rote-ampel/
€90 if you've just missed the yellow and €200 or more with points and a month off the road if you endanger someone or it has been red for more than a second. Seems fair to me.

The problem is, speaking from an American context, is that is too cut and dry. For instance, you go to cross a junction and the person ahead jams on or unknown to you, you just get caught out and can't clear the junction. As often happens in traffic, then snap and your done. Same in the wet, if you are coming at the limit and its just too dangerous to stop e.g. Artic lorry up your rear and the lights go orange.

In that instance its unfair as there is no leiency. Unlike speed where you are speeding, end of, in the case of lights and junctions there has to be some human decision making.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-09-2014 5:09pm

ironclaw wrote: »

The problem is, speaking from an American context, is that is too cut and dry. For instance, you go to cross a junction and the person ahead jams on or unknown to you, you just get caught out and can't clear the junction. As often happens in traffic, then snap and your done. Same in the wet, if you are coming at the limit and its just too dangerous to stop e.g. Artic lorry up your rear and the lights go orange.

In that instance its unfair as there is no leiency. Unlike speed where you are speeding, end of, in the case of lights and junctions there has to be some human decision making.

It's very cut and dry. It's easy to approach a junction at the appropriate speed to stop in time, this should be second nature after a handful of driving lessons.
I do break the red light in Ireland, because I don't want to wait an extra five minutes and o know I can get away with it.
I wouldn't pull that sh*t in Germany I can tell you now.
I do however see one difficulty. If there is a camera and an ambulance behind me.

ironclaw · 28-09-2014 8:10pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I do however see one difficulty. If there is a camera and an ambulance behind me.

So its not cut and dry. Do you sit there? Or do you move and take the points?

From my experience in America, sitting at a few junctions, I'd call 7/10 flashes I observed as unfair. They have their uses, no question, but it would want to record a much larger field of view, 10s either side of the offence and it would want to be manually reviewed or at least give the defendant due process if they wanted to challenge it. All of which would be hopelessly badly implemented in Ireland.

runawaybishop · 28-09-2014 8:11pm

ironclaw wrote: »

So its not cut and dry. Do you sit there? Or do you move and take the points?

From my experience in America, sitting at a few junctions, I'd call 7/10 flashes I observed as unfair. They have their uses, no question, but it would want to record a much larger field of view, 10s either side of the offence and it would want to be manually reviewed or at least give the defendant due process if they wanted to challenge it. All of which would be hopelessly badly implemented in Ireland.

Option C: You move and don't get points once you clarify that there was an ambulance approaching and its verified by the system.

ironclaw · 28-09-2014 8:14pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Option C: You move and don't get points once you clarify that there was an ambulance approaching and its verified by the system.

Do you honestly believe they would allow that? Or better yet, have the know how to put together a system that would allow that type of recourse? C'mon now, we can barely implement a country wide speed camera network. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Cynical, yes but we are completely inept in this country when it comes to any form of enforcement or embracement of technology. ANPR was touted as cutting edge, we were doing that in the early 90s. Tetra the same story, AirWave was in the UK a good 5 years before hand and its a far superior system.

List is endless as are the fiasco's.

runawaybishop · 28-09-2014 8:33pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Do you honestly believe they would allow that? Or better yet, have the know how to put together a system that would allow that type of recourse? C'mon now, we can barely implement a country wide speed camera network. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Cynical, yes but we are completely inept in this country when it comes to any form of enforcement or embracement of technology. ANPR was touted as cutting edge, we were doing that in the early 90s. Tetra the same story, AirWave was in the UK a good 5 years before hand and its a far superior system.

List is endless as are the fiasco's.

If the camera can spot you breaking the red light it can spot the ambulance doing the same.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-09-2014 8:41pm

ironclaw wrote: »

So its not cut and dry. Do you sit there? Or do you move and take the points?

From my experience in America, sitting at a few junctions, I'd call 7/10 flashes I observed as unfair. They have their uses, no question, but it would want to record a much larger field of view, 10s either side of the offence and it would want to be manually reviewed or at least give the defendant due process if they wanted to challenge it. All of which would be hopelessly badly implemented in Ireland.

Ok, it is almost cut and dry.
But I have been in that situation maybe twice in my life and in Germany never.
It really is easy, green, go, yellow, caution, red, duh, stop.
Anyone who now says "there was another car, the sun was blinding me, I was having my period" or any other lame excuse, sorry, points.
Lemme check on the ambulance thing.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-09-2014 8:48pm

Besides, we need a bit of fascistic enforcement of the rules of the road, just to hammer it into peoples heads that rules, lights and street signs are not just there for a joke.
There will be the usual pissing and moaning on Joe Duffy to the tune of "I was only in the shop for a minute, 'tis a disgrace, I pay may taxes, I have a right to drive how I want", yeah, yeah, pay up and shut up.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-09-2014 9:07pm

Ok, checked it.
I sometimes forget that I come from a country that is not completely obsessed by rules and allows for common sense, unlike Ireland.
If you move over the line and get flashed because of an emergence vehicle, you merely notify the authorities, who shouldn't have bothered you in the first place, because the ambulance would also be in the picture, or at any rate, the next one.

edit
In fact you are legally obliged to move for an emergency vehicle. You could find yourself in trouble if you don't.

ironclaw · 28-09-2014 9:41pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

If the camera can spot you breaking the red light it can spot the ambulance doing the same.

Its a photo, probably two still photos is the usual from Gatso and similar, so no. It will only show you breaking the light. It may also catch the ambulance but you are assuming someone see's the sequence and puts two and two together, which is unlikely.

I'm just wary of stuff like this in Ireland because our track records with technology is patchy at best.

cadaliac · 28-09-2014 10:00pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

...
I sometimes forget that I come from a country that is not completely obsessed by rules and allows for common sense, unlike Ireland.
...........

Really ???
When you memory returns to you and you realize that Germany is built on rules and that they can be anal about rules and regulations, you might also realize that your statement above isn't true.
Ireland is not devoid of common sense- or are you referring to the Irish people in general?
In fact I would go so far as to say the opposite and that Ireland lacks obsession to rules and regulations.

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-09-2014 8:51am

cadaliac wrote: »

Really ???
When you memory returns to you and you realize that Germany is built on rules and that they can be anal about rules and regulations, you might also realize that your statement above isn't true.
Ireland is not devoid of common sense- or are you referring to the Irish people in general?
In fact I would go so far as to say the opposite and that Ireland lacks obsession to rules and regulations.

Maybe I put his wrong. In Germany you get a feeling that the rules are there to make sure everyone knows what they're at, the purpose is to give everyone a clear indication as to what the process is and to make sure it all works in a clear and precise manner.
Here it's more like someone said "Oh jaysus we need rules, quick, do a Google search and copy and paste everything"and in the end you get nothing useful out of it.
My favorite example is continuous white lines. In Germany there is an exception for tractors and other slow moving machinery, so the common sense item that you shouldn't have to follow a tractor for 5 miles is built in.
It isn't in Ireland, but everyone overtakes the tractor anyway, because it's the sensible thing to do (so normal people in Ireland DO have sense, except the ones that won't overtake the tractor). The nonsensical issue is, if a Gard felt like screwing you, he absolutely can. Because in Ireland, the rules say there's a white line, if there was a tree in the way, you would, by law, have to sit there till it goes away.
I am with Ironclaw on this one, you never get the sense that whoever works out the regulations cares about them in any way, understands them or considers the impact they may have, as long as they then get to knock off for an early lunch.

runawaybishop · 03-10-2014 2:00pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Its a photo, probably two still photos is the usual from Gatso and similar, so no. It will only show you breaking the light. It may also catch the ambulance but you are assuming someone see's the sequence and puts two and two together, which is unlikely.

I'm just wary of stuff like this in Ireland because our track records with technology is patchy at best.

No one needs to put two and two together off their own bat, you direct them to it.

dr.fuzzenstein · 03-10-2014 3:02pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

No one needs to put two and two together off their own bat, you direct them to it.

Just to drag the ambulance thing up again.
You would definitely move for am ambulance in Germany, fine, points and potential liability if you holding up the ambulance has contributed to the condition of the patient getting worse.
So, getting points and fine for breaking red light to let ambulance by, very unlikely.
Sitting there and saying "well, I'm not moving", fine and points guaranteed.
And one thing they should bring in here:
Blocking the hard shoulder and holding up ambulance, €2180.
Nice.

Gazzmonkey · 03-10-2014 3:20pm

cadaliac wrote: »

Really ???
When you memory returns to you and you realize that Germany is built on rules and that they can be anal about rules and regulations, you might also realize that your statement above isn't true.
Ireland is not devoid of common sense- or are you referring to the Irish people in general?
In fact I would go so far as to say the opposite and that Ireland lacks obsession to rules and regulations.

He's always condescending towards Ireland, ignore his silly delusions.

fmccarthy · 06-11-2014 4:50pm

Is it not illegal for speed camera vans to park on the hard shoulder. It is illegal for cars to park there unless broken down so surely the same law applies. Would that not make any offences detected while illegally parked inadmissible ?

pa990 · 06-11-2014 5:00pm

fmccarthy wrote: »

Is it not illegal for speed camera vans to park on the hard shoulder. It is illegal for cars to park there unless broken down so surely the same law applies. Would that not make any offences detected while illegally parked inadmissible ?

Its not illegal to park on a hard shoulder of a road (except for a motorway)

mufc1993 · 07-11-2014 7:21pm

Well lads. Just wondering do you know what sort of range the GoSafe vans can reach? I overtook a slow moving vehicle today but in doing so built up speed and was doing 110 I'd say, maybe 115 worst case scenario. Spotted the van less than 100 metres away and broke then to get to 100 straight away. What do ye think ?

Reg'stoy · 07-11-2014 10:22pm

mufc1993 wrote: »

Well lads. Just wondering do you know what sort of range the GoSafe vans can reach? I overtook a slow moving vehicle today but in doing so built up speed and was doing 110 I'd say, maybe 115 worst case scenario. Spotted the van less than 100 metres away and broke then to get to 100 straight away. What do ye think ?

ironclaw · 08-11-2014 11:56am

mufc1993 wrote: »

Spotted the van less than 100 metres away and broke then to get to 100 straight away. What do ye think ?

:rolleyes:

To answer your question, the range of the van is roughly twice the width of the road away.

Esel · 09-11-2014 4:43am

ironclaw wrote: »

:rolleyes:

To answer your question, the range of the van is roughly twice the width of the road away.

:rolleyes:

Nino Brown · 09-11-2014 7:38am

Here's one from tonight, I was doing 80kmph in an 80kmph zone where there's usually a speed van. The speed van wasn't there tonight so I sped up and was doing 100kmph a few hundred meters before I left the 80 zone and entered the 100 zone, that's at about 4 secs into the clip.
Then about 100 or so meters into the 100 zone, there's a speed van which flashes as I go past, small white flash, must be IR, but looks white. Speed van is in the 100 zone, I'm doing 100 but it still flashes. So did this thing catch me doing 100 in the 80 zone, and take the pic as I pass the van, or does it just flash everybody that passes regardless? Or is it possible that they are trying to catch people just outside the 80kmph zone in the hope that they don't have dash cam footage including GPS co-ordinates to prove they were outside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DdMhh26q4U

mikeecho · 09-11-2014 7:59am

for the last two or three years, they seem to take a pic of every car that passes.

joujoujou · 09-11-2014 2:38pm

mikeecho wrote: »

[...] they seem to take a pic of every car that passes.

True.

eringobragh · 16-01-2015 10:45pm

Back in the usual spot on Wednesday - must have been my 10th sighting of them here:

Later that night - just past connolly station - nice and reflective (unlike gosafes * fake * reflectors)

FiReStOrM xIx · 16-02-2015 12:59am

I was driving through abbeyleix tonight and a go safe van was in the 50kph zone... didn't see him till i was about 2 metres away! But he was outside the van with what looked like a tripod with a light on top of it setup and the doors open... i was going around 55kph at the time as i took my eyes off the speedometer. ... does this mean I'll get done for speeding or what does it mean when he's outside the van with the doors open?! Could i challenge any potential fine/points or should i just accept it?

Mervyn Skidmore · 16-02-2015 1:10am

FiReStOrM xIx wrote: »

I was driving through abbeyleix tonight and a go safe van was in the 50kph zone... didn't see him till i was about 2 metres away! But he was outside the van with what looked like a tripod with a light on top of it setup and the doors open... i was going around 55kph at the time as i took my eyes off the speedometer. ... does this mean I'll get done for speeding or what does it mean when he's outside the van with the doors open?! Could i challenge any potential fine/points or should i just accept it?

You should be grand. Remember, your car will be over-reading by a few kmph anyway.

ironclaw · 16-02-2015 9:37am

@FiReStOrM xIx, what you saw was the driving setting up. Its part of the calibration and set up procedure. Camera and system would not even be running at this stage.

TL;DR: You're grand

FiReStOrM xIx · 16-02-2015 10:58am

Jesus i hope your right! I'm sick about it all day.... i wouldn't mind only i never go over the speed limit and to get points and a fine over 4 or 5kph would be fairly bad! They 100% don't record until they're inside the van with the door's closed? I can't deny I'll be worried until a few weeks pass

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