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crosstownk · 18-12-2013 09:23PM

DieselPowered wrote: »

Question - anyone know why Dublin ground now asks departing flights what is their first IFR waypoint on their FMS (flight management system), haven't heard this before in general, but have heard it a lot recently, eg the Oscar Echo NDB (OE) is the most common point I've heard so far?

Dublin Ground: What is your first departure waypoint?
Aircraft: Oscar Echo once airborne
Dublin Ground: Roger, that checks.

This is a regular request as far as I can see. It seems like a 'to be sure' check.

EDIT: I just saw urajoke's response which explains it better.

DieselPowered · 19-12-2013 02:04AM

urajoke wrote: »

It's a check as phonypony says to make sure the pilots have enter the correct SID in the computer. It has happened many times, the 747 was the largest aircraft to fly the wrong SID. It's simple but at times time consuming check.

Thanks urajoke for the detail, makes sense. Is there any link (incident/accident report?) to the 747 flying the wrong SID? Where did this happen?

urajoke · 19-12-2013 08:21AM

DieselPowered wrote: »

Thanks urajoke for the detail, makes sense. Is there any link (incident/accident report?) to the 747 flying the wrong SID? Where did this happen?

No that will have been an internal investigation. Off of 10 at Dublin.

DieselPowered · 19-12-2013 01:03PM

urajoke wrote: »

No that will have been an internal investigation. Off of 10 at Dublin.

Ok, understood, so this is a Dublin procedure, not an ICAO requirement?

urajoke · 19-12-2013 01:52PM

DieselPowered wrote: »

Ok, understood, so this is a Dublin procedure, not an ICAO requirement?

Correct, also we changed the non-jet SIDS to LIFFY and PESIT, so they are called KISHA and ABIDO so they would look different in the computer and sound different so they would hopefully not be mixed up.

the beerhunter · 19-12-2013 08:58PM

urajoke wrote: »

Correct, also we changed the non-jet SIDS to LIFFY and PESIT, so they are called KISHA and ABIDO so they would look different in the computer and sound different so they would hopefully not be mixed up.

in a perfect (or even sensible) world different departures wouldn't have been given similar designators in the first place. the stickytape and plaster of "first waypoint" is mostly working now so it won't be revisited until some unfortunate flyer finds a new way to highlight the risk of leaving it in place.

DieselPowered · 19-12-2013 10:15PM

urajoke wrote: »

Correct, also we changed the non-jet SIDS to LIFFY and PESIT, so they are called KISHA and ABIDO so they would look different in the computer and sound different so they would hopefully not be mixed up.

It makes sense, thanks for the update.

I have some questions on Dublin approaches (and departures), you are probably in the best place to answer

If you look at the Approaches for RWY 10,

Rwy10

HOLDS:

NASRI Rwy10 HOLD (South West)
ULTAG Rwy10 HOLD (North West)

APPROACHES

BAMLI 1U Rwy10 STAR (North)
LIPGO 1N Rwy10 STAR (South East)
VATRY 1N Rwy10 STAR (South East)

BOYNE 4U Rwy10 STAR (North East)
NIMAT 4U Rwy10 STAR (North East)

BAGSO 4U Rwy10 STAR (North East)
OLAPO 4U Rwy10 STAR (North West)

OSGAR 4N Rwy10 STAR (South West)
SUTEX 4N Rwy10 STAR (South West)
BUNED 4N Rwy10 STAR (South)

Do the identifiers 1Uniform, 1November, 4Uniform, 4 November mean anything?
I'm familiar with Boyne, Bagso, Lipgo, Vatry etc as IFR/VFR waypoints.

How are approaches determined?

(I was thinking of starting a new thread to discuss Dublin Approaches and Departures which would fit in nicely with the FR24 thread and this LiveATC EIDW thread, do you think it would have enough discussion on its own?)

urajoke · 20-12-2013 09:01AM

Uniform=ULTAG
November=NASRI
Kilo=KERAV
Sierra=SORIN

The number equals the version plus updates, so if it's a new or major update SID/STAR it's 1 if it's a minor change post introduction the number will increase by 1 to 2 or 3 or 4 etc. So a BOYNE4U is the STAR that starts at BOYNE and goes to ULTAG for 10 and it's not new but it's one that has been modified or updated 3 times since introduction.

What do you mean by how are approaches determined ?

Start a new thread it's probably more appropriate than going off topic in here and feel free to ask any questions I'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

urajoke · 20-12-2013 10:07AM

And they are STAR's Standard Terminal Arrival Routes. They lead to IAP's Instrument Approach Procedures which in Dublin all start at a Hold for 28 they start at LAPMO hold. The IAP's are the approaches they can be localiser only, full ILS, VOR, NDB etc etc.

Mech1 · 20-12-2013 09:45PM

You might hear a few beeps on the feed, Tightening up the freq list due to the expected weather.

We are losing Op's and FIS in order to give more App / Twr airtime.

I may come upon a few others that have to be benched meantime.

Pat.

bikeman1 · 20-12-2013 10:29PM

Some very bad weather just going through DUB at the moment. EI just gone around and a few going into the hold at KERAV.

peter1892 · 20-12-2013 10:36PM

Quite a few a/c going into the hold rather than attempting approaches right now - very blustery outside, windshear being reported on the approach (resulting in go-arounds)

bikeman1 · 20-12-2013 10:48PM

About 13 holding / approaching DUB now. All going to land. The Budapest seems to not be able to hold for much longer.

They are "happy" with gusts of 40 knots!

Mech1 · 20-12-2013 11:01PM

Its time for this again:D
[IMG][/img]

fr336 · 20-12-2013 11:07PM

Mech1 wrote: »

Its time for this again:D
[IMG][/img]

Thank you Mech

:) Never fails to amaze me how good all concerned what they do (obviously).

Mech1 · 20-12-2013 11:13PM

Just a note for newbies here tonight:

Mech1 wrote: »

Lots of Aircraft holding off Dublin airport at the moment due to weather.

Watch here : http://www.flightradar24.com/EIN65T

Listen here : http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=eidw

Do Both for best.

fr336 · 24-12-2013 02:31PM

172 listeners on the feed!!

Dublinflyer · 24-12-2013 02:39PM

make that 186!

fr336 · 24-12-2013 02:41PM

Think I heard something about the runway being open again. Clearly a big backlog to clear now and the possibility of more wind issues I'd presume?

Heard about a Ryanair diverting back to Bristol! Makes diverting to Shannon look inviting.

fr336 · 24-12-2013 02:42PM

Dublinflyer wrote: »

make that 186!

205!!

Dublinflyer · 24-12-2013 02:42PM

the mean wind is dropping with gusts at 43 so a few are getting out but it's starting to rain now so that will have an impact now

Peregrine · 24-12-2013 02:58PM

We're in the top 5...twice!

Total EIDW listeners from all three feeds well over 270.

keith16 · 24-12-2013 03:33PM

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

We're in the top 5...twice!

Great to see the minors doing well :pac:

Shamrock231 · 24-12-2013 10:37PM

Anyone know where all the Spanish is coming from on the feed?

Mech1 · 24-12-2013 10:40PM

just tuning in now, will check.

Mech1 · 24-12-2013 10:56PM

Not hearing any Spanish.

Shamrock231 · 24-12-2013 11:02PM

Was about 2-3 minutes of Spanish speaking about 2130Z... Not sure where it came from myself, can't be heard at the moment... Mystery it looks like...

urajoke · 24-12-2013 11:35PM

Yes there was Spanish, someday you might also here some Egyptian arabaic and some Hindi ;-)

Ilyushin76 · 24-12-2013 11:40PM

I remember a pilot telling shannon atc that they were picking up foreign interference on their radio a while back also.

Mech1 · 25-12-2013 12:32AM

op's back in the mix now.

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