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Comments

  • #782
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    IRLConor wrote: »
    I'm on my phone at the moment but when I get home I'll do you up a transcript.

    No your ok thanks I just caught the extra few transmissions that weren't in my first playback of it.

    You are indeed correct it was PILOT error, even if he didn't see the lights there is hold short markings on the ground.


  • #783
    Mech1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,149 ✭✭✭Mech1


    Ok sorry Mr Pilot, I didnt mean to get you in trouble by running this feed.

    I worry that if something more serious happens and we dissect it, word by word here before any court case or investigation, would we be in contempt of court.http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/04/twitter_guidance_court_cases/

    Be Careful what you say!!!

    Pat.


  • #784
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    Mech1 wrote: »
    Ok sorry Mr Pilot, I didnt mean to get you in trouble by running this feed.

    I worry that if something more serious happens and we dissect it, word by word here before any court case or investigation, would we be in contempt of court.http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/04/twitter_guidance_court_cases/

    Be Careful what you say!!!

    Pat.

    He was in trouble the second he crossed the lines. An MOR would have been filed by the ATCOs it will have been investigated by now and a report filed in the next few days. NOT as a result of this feed. We have procedures in place for this. By the time the first post was put up the tapes would have been played back so I wouldn't worry about it. The rules we/they play by stand about 6 ft tall.


  • #785
    Mech1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,149 ✭✭✭Mech1


    urajoke wrote: »
    He was in trouble the second he crossed the lines. An MOR would have been filed by the ATCOs it will have been investigated by now and a report filed in the next few days. NOT as a result of this feed. We have procedures in place for this. By the time the first post was put up the tapes would have been played back so I wouldn't worry about it. The rules we/they play by stand about 6 ft tall.

    I agree and understand your post, but should we be working out and posting our thoughts on who we think is to blame here, or just making people aware that there was a problem in the general very smooth running machine that ATC is and letting people decide for themselves in private.
    Pat.


  • #786
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    Mech1 wrote: »
    I agree and understand your post, but should we be working out and posting our thoughts on who we think is to blame here, or just making people aware that there was a problem in the general very smooth running machine that ATC is and letting people decide for themselves in private.
    Pat.

    In this case it will have no impact on the investigation what so ever, in fact even in the event of a very serious incident/accident it wouldn't have an impact. If we didn't discuss it here we would probably be the only place NOT talking about it as everyone would be talking about it, Facebook, twitter, internet boards, papers, TV, radio, pub talk, gossip over the wall.

    In this case there was a clear instruction given and readback and then you hear the result a runway incursion.


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  • #787
    Razor44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 659 ✭✭✭Razor44


    Mech1 wrote: »
    I agree and understand your post, but should we be working out and posting our thoughts on who we think is to blame here, or just making people aware that there was a problem in the general very smooth running machine that ATC is and letting people decide for themselves in private.
    Pat.

    we're not experts (well alot of us arent) so our opinion doesn't count, also we lack the full information. so long as no one slanders anyone or makes an outrages claim its all good.


  • #788
    Mech1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,149 ✭✭✭Mech1


    Im not saying that we did anything wrong today, im just putting a warning / suggestion for the future out there, just in case someone goes all out blaming someone with only the limited info we get from the feed and not the full facts of any incident.


  • #789
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    Mech1 wrote: »
    Im not saying that we did anything wrong today, im just putting a warning / suggestion for the future out there, just in case someone goes all out blaming someone with only the limited info we get from the feed and not the full facts of any incident.

    Correct and well said, if people had read the first few posts on the occurrence they would have immediately assumed the ATCO fcuked as one poster put it, however, we now know different. Well done to IRLConor for that one.


  • #790
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    Something else to consider is that in the event of an incident the 24 hour news agencies will be looking for any and all info. It's not uncommon to see an opinion expressed on a forum reported as a fact.

    As anonymous as we all think we are on here, we are not :-)


  • #791
    Dublinflyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Dublinflyer


    You have to remember that there may be bits of the conversation missing so while it may have confused some listeners I am pretty sure the pilots heard all the instructions, at least I hope they did! As urajoke pointed out he was in trouble as soon as he crossed the line regardless of how he got to D3. Once he incurred on the flight strip the damage was done, thankfully it was not an active runway so the impact was limited but that's not the point. There will be an investigation into this, lessons learned and we will move on. Some people like to play the blame game with things like this but laying blame gets you nowhere really, especially when you don't have all the facts. I kind or regret mentioning this now to be honest.


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  • #792
    the beerhunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭the beerhunter


    Mech1 wrote: »
    Ok sorry Mr Pilot, I didnt mean to get you in trouble by running this feed.

    I worry that if something more serious happens and we dissect it, word by word here before any court case or investigation, would we be in contempt of court.http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/04/twitter_guidance_court_cases/

    Be Careful what you say!!!

    Pat.

    this is ireland, that's the uk. "near, far away", so to speak.


  • #793
    flazio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,607 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    General qeuestion. If there was a major incident on the airfield at Dublin where there's to be an investigation by the IAA. Do you have the power Pat to take the recording offline?

    This too shall pass.



  • #794
    Mech1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,149 ✭✭✭Mech1


    flazio wrote: »
    General qeuestion. If there was a major incident on the airfield at Dublin where there's to be an investigation by the IAA. Do you have the power Pat to take the recording offline?

    Definatly not thats all up to LiveAtc.


  • #795
    Mech1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,149 ✭✭✭Mech1


    I hear my feed was messed up for a while today, should be sorted now.


  • #796
    crosstownk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,863 ✭✭✭✭crosstownk


    Mech1 wrote: »
    I hear my feed was messed up for a while today, should be sorted now.
    Good timing. The current weather will make it a little more interesting.

    EIDW 181530Z 14021G31KT 8000 -DZ FEW007 SCT010 BKN015 12/10 Q0979 NOSIG
    Untitled Image




  • #797
    No.username
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭No.username


    Pan pan pan declared on frequency


  • #798
    No.username
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭No.username


    No.username wrote: »
    Pan pan pan declared on frequency

    It's Air France 278 (I think) has engine vibrations in one engine. Shouldn't be a big deal because it's an RJ with 4 engines. Holds are going to be busy I would say.


  • #799
    Dublinflyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Dublinflyer


    And he's down, no problems.


  • #800
    crosstownk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,863 ✭✭✭✭crosstownk


    No.username wrote: »
    It's Air France 278 (I think) has engine vibrations in one engine. Shouldn't be a big deal because it's an RJ with 4 engines. Holds are going to be busy I would say.

    AFR1278 safely on the ground.
    Untitled Image




  • #801
    peter1892
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭peter1892


    2 go arounds on 16 (1 EIN, 1 RYR) in the last 10 mins or so, EIN10E seems to have been holding to depart off 10 for about 20 minutes now, and they're changing runways!

    It is very windy out there (putting it mildly).


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  • #802
    DieselPowered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭DieselPowered


    peter1892 wrote: »
    2 go arounds on 16 (1 EIN, 1 RYR) in the last 10 mins or so, EIN10E seems to have been holding to depart off 10 for about 20 minutes now, and they're changing runways!

    I just caught the Go-arounds on FR24, here


  • #803
    peter1892
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭peter1892


    DieselPowered wrote: »
    I just caught the Go-arounds on FR24, here

    Another one just now (EIN525). Horrible evening!


  • #804
    dropzone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭dropzone


    Another go a round this time EI525


  • #805
    DieselPowered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭DieselPowered


    I hate to say it, Dublin approaches are in a mess at the moment, but 100% cudos to the controllers, they are working well under pressure (as they must do).

    The holds are filling up, SORIN hold is running out of levels, the KERAV hold is busy and aircraft are leaving the hold themselves due to weather, eg American N262LM exited KERAV to the north easy, Dublin asked him to own nav to the ULTAG hold (which is for RWY10) and he was unable to either locate it or comply, so he asked for a divert to Belfast and he was told to stay where he was because Dublin needs to OK that with Belfast first (while dealing with the current mess on approach into Dublin.

    :)


  • #806
    dropzone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭dropzone


    Looks like EI645 is heading down to Shannon


  • #807
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    DieselPowered wrote: »
    I hate to say it, Dublin approaches are in a mess at the moment, but 100% cudos to the controllers, they are working well under pressure (as they must do).

    The holds are filling up, SORIN hold is running out of levels, the KERAV hold is busy and aircraft are leaving the hold themselves due to weather, eg American N262LM exited KERAV to the north easy, Dublin asked him to own nav to the ULTAG hold (which is for RWY10) and he was unable to either locate it or comply, so he asked for a divert to Belfast and he was told to stay where he was because Dublin needs to OK that with Belfast first (while dealing with the current mess on approach into Dublin.

    :)

    ULTAG is for 16 and 10, but it can be used for ANY runway if required.


  • #808
    DieselPowered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭DieselPowered


    Question - anyone know why Dublin ground now asks departing flights what is their first IFR waypoint on their FMS (flight management system), haven't heard this before in general, but have heard it a lot recently, eg the Oscar Echo NDB (OE) is the most common point I've heard so far?

    Dublin Ground: What is your first departure waypoint?
    Aircraft: Oscar Echo once airborne
    Dublin Ground: Roger, that checks.


  • #809
    phonypony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭phonypony


    DieselPowered wrote: »
    Question - anyone know why Dublin ground now asks departing flights what is their first IFR waypoint on their FMS (flight management system), haven't heard this before in general, but have heard it a lot recently, eg the Oscar Echo NDB (OE) is the most common point I've heard so far?

    Dublin Ground: What is your first departure waypoint?
    Aircraft: Oscar Echo once airborne
    Dublin Ground: Roger, that checks.

    Due to the wrong SID being flown a couple years ago by a 747 I think, with a 750ft turn!


  • #810
    DieselPowered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭DieselPowered


    Departing aircraft just reported a dead animal on RWY-28, 100 mts before Echo 5 taxi way to the right hand side of the centre line.

    Fedex5201 holding for departure. Rescue vehicle dispatched.

    Must be a spotter :)


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  • #811
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    It's a check as phonypony says to make sure the pilots have enter the correct SID in the computer. It has happened many times, the 747 was the largest aircraft to fly the wrong SID. It's simple but at times time consuming check.


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