Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

petrolcan · 24-10-2013 05:53PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And if the child is harmed by the suspected abductors in the presence of the Gardaí you would be giving out that the Gardaí didn't do enough.

Then at least the Police will be able to minimise the harm should such a situation arise.

Balaclava1991 wrote:

You're not fooling me and anyone else with that crap.

I'm not trying to fool anyone.

Balaclava1991 wrote:

You come off it! The Gardaí had a reasonable suspicion that the child might have been abducted. Blonde kid with gypsy parents. They had to assume the worst. So cut the sh*t.

All they had to do was investigate it thoroughly rather than make assumptions.

Balaclava1991 wrote:

Bullsh*t.

This whole thing is manufactured and is being driven by a political agenda.

The Pavee Point organisation is a front for the extreme left and subversive republicans and organized crime.

There are left wing activists funded by shadowy people behind the scenes with deep pockets who have an anti-state and anti-Garda agenda.

I bet there are a lots of lawyers and cranks and left wing activists who are seeing euro signs.

*sigh*

Sala · 24-10-2013 05:53PM

If the HSE and the Gardai truly believe that they had grounds for taking the little boy in Athlone, why did they leave the little girl with the suspected kidnappers / traffickers? Did they DNA test her, or is it not important since she is darker skinned?

And if they could not find the child's birth record, why did they no think to ask the mother her maiden name - she may have forgotten she was registered under it, was probably under a lot of stress in the circumstances, whereas the Gardai are supposed to be professional investigators, it is a very obvious thing to check out.

There will be a lot of questions to answer.

old hippy · 24-10-2013 05:56PM

Gatling wrote: »

Absolutely ,

Seriously take of the foil

Ah, the old "you must be mental" riposte. You've got form for that, haven't you?

I'm asking you if you'd inform on your neighbours if their kids didn't look like the parents? And do you approve of the state kidnapping of children and distress it causes them and their families?

Do you?

tayto lover · 24-10-2013 06:02PM

old hippy wrote: »

Ah, the old "you must be mental" riposte. You've got form for that, haven't you?

I'm asking you if you'd inform on your neighbours if their kids didn't look like the parents? And do you approve of the state kidnapping of children and distress it causes them and their families?

Do you?

In fairness you are using the word kidnapped in the same way as it is used in the Jean Mc Conville case.
This child was taken into care until they checked out the suspicions. She was never in danger unlike Jean and was returned to her parents when it was proved she was their child.
We have to wait until the inquiry is finished before we can judge anyone for taking the action they did.
If we go by your logic Gerry Adams would have been in prison years ago as he was tried and convicted on forums like this. Not the way to go.

My name is URL · 24-10-2013 06:04PM

Gatling wrote: »

I would have done the same considering the Greece case

Well then you're an idiot and a time waster as well as a shameless fcuking xenophobe.

Well done.

old hippy · 24-10-2013 06:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness you are using the word kidnapped in the same way as it is used in the Jean Mc Conville case.
This child was taken into care until they checked out the suspicions. She was never in danger unlike Jean and was returned to her parents when it was proved she was their child.
We have to wait until the inquiry is finished before we can judge anyone for taking the action they did.
If we go by your logic Gerry Adams would have been in prison years ago as he was tried and convicted on forums like this. Not the way to go.

I'm going to ask this question tayto, again, and I hope you will be kind enough to answer it - as nobody else has. Would you feel the same way if you're child was forceably removed from you?

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 06:05PM

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness you are using the word kidnapped in the same way as it is used in the Jean Mc Conville case.
This child was taken into care until they checked out the suspicions. She was never in danger unlike Jean and was returned to her parents when it was proved she was their child.
We have to wait until the inquiry is finished before we can judge anyone for taking the action they did.
If we go by your logic Gerry Adams would have been in prison years ago as he was tried and convicted on forums like this. Not the way to go.

The bolded bit could be argued, what if while in care she had gone missing...

Princess Peach · 24-10-2013 06:09PM

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness you are using the word kidnapped in the same way as it is used in the Jean Mc Conville case.
This child was taken into care until they checked out the suspicions. She was never in danger unlike Jean and was returned to her parents when it was proved she was their child.
We have to wait until the inquiry is finished before we can judge anyone for taking the action they did.
If we go by your logic Gerry Adams would have been in prison years ago as he was tried and convicted on forums like this. Not the way to go.

Well I read the child didn't eat for the 3 days she was in care because of emotional trauma.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 06:10PM

Nodin wrote: »

How do you know it wasn't an Irish passport?

Bit odd that you acknowledge that checks take time, but deem two hours long enough to assess that a child should be taken from its parents.

i dont know what passport it was , but seeing the are roma from eastern Europe i would imagine its probably not irish , how can they check the passport details on site , you are missing the BIG BIG point here , until they can check , they had to act , simple simple simple

even shatter said the same , so did the head of Bernardos , so did the head of the refugee council ect ect

newstalk have the pod cast up on their site if you fancy a listen.

better to be wrong a 100 times than letting one slip by

Smiles35 · 24-10-2013 06:10PM

old hippy wrote: »

I'm going to ask this question tayto, again, and I hope you will be kind enough to answer it - as nobody else has. Would you feel the same way if you're child was forceably removed from you?

I did.

tayto lover · 24-10-2013 06:11PM

old hippy wrote: »

I'm going to ask this question tayto, again, and I hope you will be kind enough to answer it - as nobody else has. Would you feel the same way if you're child was forceably removed from you?

I have said all along that I wouldn't like it and hope it never happens BUT I will wait for the reasons before I condemn. I don';t know what happened or what their thought processes were and there are obviously reasons why they took such seemingly extreme actions but again I cannot judge on the information at hand.
My sympathies are with the Roma family in this but I would not like to be put in the spot the authorities were put into and won't judge until I hear the full story.

If guilty of wrong-doing then heads should roll but the comments of many who seem to know the law on this type of thing is that all was above board. I just don't know yet. Time will tell.

RustyNut · 24-10-2013 06:11PM

tayto lover wrote: »

This child was taken into care until they checked out the suspicions. She was never in danger

Would you not accept that the child has been damaged by her experiance and as such was endangered by the authorities.

This was not a child centered operation.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 06:13PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

You are right about one thing. The Guards took drastic action.

"but I equally can't see what else could have been done"

Really?

The guards couldnt have run a DNA check before taking a child away from its parents?

The HSE couldnt have invited the parents to accompany the child?

The precedent here is absolutely appalling......the Guards can just show up and swipe your child because it doesnt look like you.

The guards had no choice? give me a break.

laughable comment
so if it did turn out the child was kidnapped , you are suggesting they should have brought the kidnapper along , so they could interfere with the witness ??

that is why the child was separated from the rest of the family - until it was confirmed they were the actual family.

BASIC policing world wide

the noise of populace drum banging on this thread is deafening

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 06:13PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i dont know what passport it was , but seeing the are roma from eastern Europe i would imagine its probably not irish , how can they check the passport details on site , you are missing the BIG BIG point here , until they can check , they had to act , simple simple simple

even shatter said the same , so did the head of Bernardos , so did the head of the refugee council ect ect

newstalk have the pod cast up on their site if you fancy a listen.

better to be wrong a 100 times than letting one slip by

So your saying that every foreign child in the country with a non-irish passport should be taken from their parents until a DNA test is done?

The child was born in Ireland - so very high chance it is an Irish Passport - probably 95% likely

By your logic then it would be right to jail 100(99 innocent) people, to make sure you catch the right murder..... :rolleyes:

tayto lover · 24-10-2013 06:14PM

Princess Peach wrote: »

Well I read the child didn't eat for the 3 days she was in care because of emotional trauma.

That too is horrible and i feel for the poor wee thing (i have grandkids that age) but it still does not prove that the law was broken or that incorrect decisions were made. I would hope that in future there would be a better way introduced to deal with this kind of thing.

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 06:16PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

laughable comment
so if it did turn out the child was kidnapped , you are suggesting they should have brought the kidnapper along , so they could interfere with the witness ??

that is why the child was separated from the rest of the family - until it was confirmed they were the actual family.

BASIC policing world wide

the noise of populace drum banging on this thread is deafening

so it's basic policing to leave a potentially abductor with other children in their house and not take them away, strange the way your theories have a lot of holes in them

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 06:19PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So your saying that every foreign child in the country with a non-irish passport should be taken from their parents until a DNA test is done?

The child was born in Ireland - so very high chance it is an Irish Passport - probably 95% likely

By your logic then it would be right to jail 100(99 innocent) people, to make sure you catch the right murder..... :rolleyes:

i never said or insinuated that at all - have no idea where you are getting that from at all

i am talking about THIS situation - stop being so flippant,

and again you are using a stupid comparison - and as i said in my post , the minister for justice , the head of a children's charity and the head of the refugee council said the VERY same thing , but we are all wrong and you are correct

by the by , nice use of rollyeyes - really slick

i would question 99 people to catch a murderer , that is the difference
as the garda did , they question the family , removed the child until the story could be confirmed - basic stuff

tayto lover · 24-10-2013 06:19PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Would you not accept that the child has been damaged by her experiance and as such was endangered by the authorities.

This was not a child centered operation.

I would say she will take a long time to get over this unfortunately.
I really don't know what kind of place she was put into or if it was a family home but I read somewhere that she was at school. Hope they all get over this soon.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 06:22PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

so it's basic policing to leave a potentially abductor with other children in their house and not take them away, strange the way your theories have a lot of holes in them

LOL

you are gas

the rest of the kids were not suspected as been kidnapped , they could account for them , the child that could not be was removed
and all this you know - but still bang on about it

you got a problem with garda procedure - you get onto the garda
stop trying to be a smart arse with me

My name is URL · 24-10-2013 06:22PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

so it's basic policing to leave a potentially abductor with other children in their house and not take them away, strange the way your theories have a lot of holes in them

I wonder how many more times people are going to chose to ignore this very valid point. Idiots singing the praises of Gardai for protecting children despite them wilfully leaving other kids with the people they suspected to have committed a kidnapping.

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 06:22PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i never said or insinuated that at all - have no idea where you are getting that from at all

i am talking about THIS situation - stop being so flippant,

and again you are using a stupid comparison - and as i said in my post , the minister for justice , the head of a children's charity and the head of the refugee council said the VERY same thing , but we are all wrong and you are correct

by the by , nice use of rollyeyes - really slick

i would question 99 people to catch a murder , that is the difference
as the garda did

You said that the child probably had a roma passport, and until the checks where done should be brought into care

General General · 24-10-2013 06:23PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZoG6j2gB40

who_ru · 24-10-2013 06:23PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

so it's basic policing to leave a potentially abductor with other children in their house and not take them away, strange the way your theories have a lot of holes in them

Exactly right.

the police made a huge mess of this and exposed themselves as being unprofessional, uninformed, unwilling to check out what the parents had said, (ie) Irish hospital where child was born, school child attended, they showed a birth cert (could have been false) why then didn't the guards ring the office that issued the birth cert to check it out.

instead they went straight for the nuclear option of taking the child from it's parents and siblings, leaving the siblings who may also have been abducted, leave the parents themselves behind, who may have been the abductors, and making an enormous error of judgement.

this makes the police look totally incompetent. heads will have to roll over this. It's disgraceful.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 06:24PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

You said that the child probably had a roma passport, and until the checks where done should be brought into care

no such thing as a roma passport , they are not a nation
i said they probably had a out of state passport , one that the garda can not check quickly - what is incorrect about that statement ?

el pasco · 24-10-2013 06:26PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Lack of documentation does not trigger a reasonable suspicion of immediate danger to the child's welfare.

If the two document has two different names for the same child and the passport photo is of a baby and not a child which are both illegal offensives

If you cannot prove that a child is you're and you have that child living with you then that does raise suspicion

drumswan · 24-10-2013 06:26PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL

you are gas

the rest of the kids were not suspected as been kidnapped , they could account for them , the child that could not be was removed
and all this you know - but still bang on about it

you got a problem with garda procedure - you get onto the garda
stop trying to be a smart arse with me

Why do people not get this. If the parents are kidnappers, they arent to be trusted with any kids, yes - even brown ones.

clairefontaine · 24-10-2013 06:28PM

The police committed child abdication and assault of minors.

There was no reason for them to do this without checking documents and getting a court order.

However, the people of Ireland voted in the children's rights act, which gave these permissions to the state.

This should be ashamed of themselves.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 06:29PM

drumswan wrote: »

Why do people not get this. If the parents are kidnappers, they arent to be trusted with any kids, yes - even brown ones.

i am not arguing that , and never have, find my post where i did say or insinuate that
i am arguing that the documents did not match at the time , so they had no option but remove the child until it all checked out.
as i have said many times - its basic police procedure.

Pompey Magnus · 24-10-2013 06:31PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

However, the people of Ireland voted in the children's rights act, which gave these permissions to the state.

This should be ashamed of themselves.

The children's rights act hasn't been signed into law yet, we can only eagerly wait to see what fun developments arise when the State gets that power in it's very responsible hands...

drumswan · 24-10-2013 06:31PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i am not arguing that , and never have, find my post where i did say or insinuate that
i am arguing that the documents did not match at the time , so they had no option but remove the child until it all checked out.
as i have said many times - its basic police procedure.

The Athlone couple produced the childs passport and birth cert and were not believed. Not that they should have had to in the first place.

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1