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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

1…4748505253…66

Comments

  • #1472
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    drumswan wrote: »
    The Athlone couple produced the childs passport and birth cert and were not believed. Not that they should have had to in the first place.

    whos talking about athlone ? i am talking about the child in dublin
    different situation - copy and pasting to suit your argument now.

    i have not said once that the cops did not make a balls of it , in fact i called them dopes in one of my posts

    but i have and will argue , that at the time of the house visit , the documents did not match , they had a social worker with them who must have also agreed to remove the child

    you or no one else on this thread knows what happened at the time , the inquiry will spell this out in time

    but dont let that stop the witch hunt - funny they would have been hailed as heros if the child did turn out to have been kidnapped.

    thankfully the child was not a kidnap victim


  • #1473
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    The police committed child abdication and assault of minors.

    There was no reason for them to do this without checking documents and getting a court order.

    However, the people of Ireland voted in the children's rights act, which gave these permissions to the state.

    This should be ashamed of themselves.

    The Gardai did check the documents like the birth cert and passport which had different names on them and the passport had a photo of a baby not a child
    It is illegal to have to different names for the same person at the same time
    The passport was useless as you have to be able to identitify yourself
    A baby looks a lot different to a 7 year old

    How did the Gardai commit child abdication?
    The followed the law therefor the did not commit child abdication
    There has so far being no record or accusation of a minor being assaulted by a member of the Gardai
    If there is give me any proof or evidence


  • #1474
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    whos talking about athlone ? i am talking about the child in dublin
    different situation - copy and pasting to suit your argument now.

    i have not said once that the cops did not make a balls of it , in fact i called them dopes in one of my posts

    but i have and will argue , that at the time of the house visit , the documents did not match , they had a social worker with them who must have also agreed to remove the child

    you or no one else on this thread knows what happened at the time , the inquiry will spell this out in time

    but dont let that stop the witch hunt - funny they would have been hailed as heros if the child did turn out to have been kidnapped.

    thankfully the child was not a kidnap victim

    This post is about the case in Dublin not Althone


  • #1475
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    el pasco wrote: »
    This post is about the case in Dublin not Althone

    i know , that is what i said , another poster used the athlone case as a example , but they are 2 different cases


  • #1476
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    I heard that in this case the parents had a different name on the girls passport to the birth cert

    If this is the case is that not illegal

    Of course if you change your name would you not have a legal Deed poll or some document from the court stating this

    I heard in news reports that the passport photo for the girl was that of a baby and not a girl
    Is that not illegal also as would you not need a photo that looks like you

    Like imagine trying to get through passport control or even if a Garda stopped you and you produced a passport with a baby's photograph for a child

    Thirdly why would you have a birth cert with one name and a passport with a different name??

    You could claim benfits etc under two different names

    Seems strange

    Glad to hear everything worked out in the end


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  • #1477
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    i know , that is what i said , another poster used the athlone case as a example , but they are 2 different cases

    Ok


  • #1478
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    el pasco wrote: »
    The Gardai did check the documents like the birth cert and passport which had different names on them and the passport had a photo of a baby not a child
    It is illegal to have to different names for the same person at the same time
    The passport was useless as you have to be able to identitify yourself
    A baby looks a lot different to a 7 year old

    How did the Gardai commit child abdication?
    The followed the law therefor the did not commit child abdication
    There has so far being no record or accusation of a minor being assaulted by a member of the Gardai
    If there is give me any proof or evidence

    Different names to what? The passport and the birthcert had different names? Was it an Irish passport or a Romanian one? Could it have possibly been a translation issue? You know when you apply for an Irish passport for your child you can change the name on the passport? Ad thatnis without a deed pole, just through "common usage." Maybe Ireland should rethink that allowance instead of going around stealing people's kids because of a valley of the squinting windows neighbor.

    If you touch another persons child without a parents consent you are guilty of assault.

    These were the actions of a fascist and proves the point social workers are the instruments of the state. Remind me again how many kids in the HSE are missing or have died?

    Did the cops have a court order and consent to conduct a dna test?


  • #1479
    Radiosonde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Radiosonde


    el pasco wrote: »
    It is illegal to have to different names for the same person at the same time

    Sorry, but that is complete boll***s.


  • #1480
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    el pasco wrote: »
    The Gardai did check the documents like the birth cert and passport which had different names on them and the passport had a photo of a baby not a child
    It is illegal to have to different names for the same person at the same time
    The passport was useless as you have to be able to identitify yourself
    A baby looks a lot different to a 7 year old

    How did the Gardai commit child abdication?
    The followed the law therefor the did not commit child abdication
    There has so far being no record or accusation of a minor being assaulted by a member of the Gardai
    If there is give me any proof or evidence

    But not very well

    Could you link to the legislation making it an offence to use more than one name?


  • #1481
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    Radiosonde wrote: »
    Sorry, but that is complete boll***s.

    How is this complete boll***s????

    You cannot have two different names on an official ID document at the same time

    As therefor you could apply for two different driving licence two different passports etc


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  • #1482
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    el pasco wrote: »
    How is this complete boll***s????

    You cannot have two different names on an official ID document at the same time

    As therefor you could apply for two different driving licence two different passports etc

    Yes you can.

    Ask any single parent with a double barrell on the birthcert and drops one on the birthcert. This is permitted in Ireland, just as usin the irish version of your name is ok one one, and using the English version on another.


  • #1483
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    old hippy wrote: »
    Inform on your neighbours? Facilitate the State to kidnap a child and cause said child untold stress?

    You'd be swayed by the hysteria of anti-Roma sentiment, in other words.

    Hippy you are the funniest of them all. down with that sort of thing. Hating "the man" and the big bad "authorities" the police are kidnappers. When truth be told you would not survive without these elements you moan about.

    See here's the dirty lil secret. Old hippy.. Without "the man" or the "authorities" You would be a dead hippy...maggot food. Chewed up and spit out. Or worse A bitch to some guy who is not the most colourful crayon in the box but would grind your bones to make his bread ,should you even look at him in a manner that displeased him.

    So be warm be safe, be thankful... Your opinion is only so because the man is there to allow it. See what I am saying. Peace out ;D


  • #1484
    Chase Little Oxygen
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Chase Little Oxygen


    el pasco wrote: »
    The Gardai did check the documents like the birth cert and passport which had different names on them and the passport had a photo of a baby not a child
    It is illegal to have to different names for the same person at the same time
    The passport was useless as you have to be able to identitify yourself
    A baby looks a lot different to a 7 year old

    How did the Gardai commit child abdication?
    The followed the law therefor the did not commit child abdication
    There has so far being no record or accusation of a minor being assaulted by a member of the Gardai
    If there is give me any proof or evidence

    No, it isn't illegal to have a different name to the one on your passport. What utter crock. And it isn't really the parents' fault if the kid was only a baby on the passport they had. The Guards took away the child without any proof whatsoever that she wasn't their child.

    If your son was christened Ryan Joseph but went by Joe and had a different hair colour to you, would you be happy for the Guards to take him away from you for a night just to 'check'?


  • #1485
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    Chase Little Oxygen wrote: »
    No, it isn't illegal to have a different name to the one on your passport. What utter crock. And it isn't really the parents' fault if the kid was only a baby on the passport they had. The Guards took away the child without any proof whatsoever that she wasn't their child.

    If your son was christened Ryan Joseph but went by Joe and had a different hair colour to you, would you be happy for the Guards to take him away from you for a night just to 'check'?

    You have to use a recent photo of your self on your passport that looks like you simple
    If you are going through say an airport and you have a passport with a photo of a new born baby and the child is say nearly 10 then how can the official ID the child??


  • #1486
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    If someone did this to me and my child, the Irish state would be very ****ing sorry.

    I'm so angry on behalf of these people.


  • #1487
    Princess Peach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,698 ✭✭✭✭Princess Peach


    el pasco wrote: »
    You have to use a recent photo of your self on your passport that looks like you simple
    If you are going through say an airport and you have a passport with a photo of a new born baby and the child is say nearly 10 then how can the official ID the child??

    Children's passports are only valid for 2 years for this reason. In this case they didn't have a current passport.


  • #1488
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    11.48 today:
    Tony EH wrote: »
    Where did I say anything about "reasonable"?

    15.33 today:
    Tony EH wrote: »
    To the officers responsible that was reasonable gounds for acting in accordance with the Child Care Act.


  • #1489
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    RustyNut wrote: »
    But not very well

    Could you link to the legislation making it an offence to use more than one name?

    I stated that was an offensive to have a different name on an offical ID state document (unless you change by deed poll or marriage etc) at the same time I will look it up for you to source the info for you if you can get it first fair enough


  • #1490
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    el pasco wrote: »
    You have to use a recent photo of your self on your passport that looks like you simple
    If you are going through say an airport and you have a passport with a photo of a new born baby and the child is say nearly 10 then how can the official ID the child??
    From the Department of Foriegn Affairs web site

    Infants (up to age 3) are issued with a 3 year passport.
    Children aged 3-17 are issued with a 5 year passport.
    Persons aged 18 and over are issued with a 10 year passport.
    In certain cases (e.g. where a previous passport has been lost or stolen), the Passport Office may restrict the validity of a replacement passport.

    I would imagine a baby would look totally different a 6 months and at 3 years 6 months when the passport expired. Or at 3 years and at 8 years when the passport expired.

    As long as the passport is official and in date it is classed as an official form of ID for the holder.


  • #1491
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Yes you can.

    Ask any single parent with a double barrell on the birthcert and drops one on the birthcert. This is permitted in Ireland, just as usin the irish version of your name is ok one one, and using the English version on another.

    You can change the surname of a child but it must be registered with the state

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/changing_your_name_by_deed_poll.html

    I will look up at using an Irish version of your name if it was in English first


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  • #1492
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    From the Department of Foriegn Affairs web site

    Infants (up to age 3) are issued with a 3 year passport.
    Children aged 3-17 are issued with a 5 year passport.
    Persons aged 18 and over are issued with a 10 year passport.
    In certain cases (e.g. where a previous passport has been lost or stolen), the Passport Office may restrict the validity of a replacement passport.

    I would imagine a baby would look totally different a 6 months and at 3 years 6 months when the passport expired. Or at 3 years and at 8 years when the passport expired.

    As long as the passport is official and in date it is classed as an official form of ID for the holder.


    Especially when accompanied by a valid birth cert and PPS No.


  • #1493
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    From the Department of Foriegn Affairs web site

    Infants (up to age 3) are issued with a 3 year passport.
    Children aged 3-17 are issued with a 5 year passport.
    Persons aged 18 and over are issued with a 10 year passport.
    In certain cases (e.g. where a previous passport has been lost or stolen), the Passport Office may restrict the validity of a replacement passport.

    I would imagine a baby would look totally different a 6 months and at 3 years 6 months when the passport expired. Or at 3 years and at 8 years when the passport expired.

    As long as the passport is official and in date it is classed as an official form of ID for the holder.

    So therefore an Irish passport would NOT be in date for the child in question
    Would it still be legal to use?

    If they are using a Romanian passport and the same rules apply therefor would it be legal as ID???


  • #1494
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    el pasco wrote: »
    I stated that was an offensive to have a different name on an offical ID state document (unless you change by deed poll or marriage etc) at the same time I will look it up for you to source the info for you if you can get it first fair enough

    I think you will find its not true.


  • #1495
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    el pasco wrote: »
    You can change the surname of a child but it must be registered with the state

    Not always.

    If you can show "common usage" you can use a different name on the passport. If you want to change the birthcert, then yes you need deed poll.


  • #1496
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    RustyNut wrote: »
    I think you will find its not true.

    Well if you can find it out first why not post it up then


  • #1497
    el pasco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭el pasco


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Not always.

    If you can show "common usage" you can use a different name on the passport. If you want to change the birthcert, then yes you need deed poll.

    If you read the link to citizen advice it says you must register the name change of you change your child's name


  • #1498
    snickers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭snickers


    To many bad things happen to children in the world we live in today physical abuse sexual abuse etc etc and child trafficking is huge business lets be fair the romas dont exactly have great reputation for treating children well. I recently read a story where a roma was sedating a baby so it would not cry therefore making it easier for the roma woman to beg for longer periods.I have to say these kids look absolutely nothing like there parents and if there was even the smallest amount of doubt about who there parents were then yes they should of been taken into care till proved beyond any doubt not just reasonable doubt but any doubt event the smallest discrepancy should be enough to give the law the right to take the child into care as responsible decent adults it is our morale duty all of us to protect children from the scum peados and physical abusers that are out there.


  • #1499
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    Let's call a spade a spade... It was a knee jerk reaction because of what happened in Greece. Would it be better to do nothing because the people involved are not citizens of the country... for fear of coming off racist? That in itself is racist..

    For those saying it should be last resort.

    Tell that to the girl in the creepy old man's basement not knowing any better if he her dad... Police knock.. ring hospital , no concrete proof the girl is his..... Sorry little girl you gotta stay here till we come back when we have irrefutable proof.

    Old man takes his and her life...

    Extreme ? Maybe... Possible?... Most definitely.


  • #1500
    Chase Little Oxygen
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Chase Little Oxygen


    el pasco wrote: »
    You have to use a recent photo of your self on your passport that looks like you simple
    If you are going through say an airport and you have a passport with a photo of a new born baby and the child is say nearly 10 then how can the official ID the child??

    They weren't going through an airport, were they? There was no legal requirement whatsoever for them even to have a passport for the child at all. How do you not get this? They were at home minding their own business when the guards showed up and said they didn't think the kid was theirs. They produced the kid's old passport and other documents and the guards still took the kid away on the basis that it didn't look like the parents.

    And you think that's grand?


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  • #1501
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    If someone did this to me and my child, the Irish state would be very ****ing sorry.

    I'm so angry on behalf of these people.

    Relax the language there Claire... It didn't happen to you.. take comfort that you are but a tourist in the real world.


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