Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

reprazant · 24-10-2013 10:44AM

wildlifeboy wrote: »

I just drew a little map for you

Caucasian race (also Caucasoid) is the general physical type of some or all of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Western, Central and South Asia. Historically, the term was used for many people from these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone.

Awkward.

desertcircus · 24-10-2013 10:45AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Give me a break.

You know well why the Gardaí intervened. Look at the pic of the boy with pale skin, blue eyes and blond hair with his parents and tell me again that you wouldn't have strong suspicions about who is real parents are?

The Gardaí came around to investigate genuine fears that the kid was abducted like that girl in Greece was.

If it turned out the kid was abducted you of course would be giving out about the Gardaí not doing enough wouldn't you?

In the Josef Fritzel case the police missed loads of opportunities to do something and they didn't because of red tape.

The Human Rights and PC Brigade of course are jumping up and down and the rent a mob are out in force with their anti-Garda and anti-State agenda.

No, I wouldn't, because I can read a f*cking Wikipedia page on recessive genes. Being an illiterate racist idiot is not a valid defence.

Overdahill · 24-10-2013 10:45AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Jesus...can everybody quit all the flapping please.

The Gardai are under strict rules in this regard. All wasn't correct with the parents story and the child in question, so they acted.

It may have been a screw up, but there was no "racism" and nothing "illegal".

Fu*k sake :rolleyes:

Tony you sound like you know more about these strict rules than I do...can you elaborate?

My concern is that this was racially driven, as I can't envisage a similar situation unfolding in a (racial stereotyping alert) more typically 'irish' looking family. And if it could then we live in a state where my children could be taken into custody on a whim just because I could not satisfy investigating guards that they were mine. Innocent until proven guilty I thought???

Either way it's a shocking situation and I for one don't condone it and won't support it.

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:46AM

reprazant wrote: »

You obviously do not know what caucasian means.

White people came from the Caucasus before spread across the steppes into Russia and the Europe. The Caucasus are between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Nowhere near Pakistan or Northern India. Look at a map.

reprazant · 24-10-2013 10:48AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

White people came from the Caucasus before spread across the steppes into Russia and the Europe. The Caucasus are between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Nowhere near Pakistan or Northern India. Look at a map.

You do realise that Caucasian does not mean white, don't you?

FTA69 · 24-10-2013 10:48AM

humanji wrote: »

It was scaremongering. The kids were returned and this case isn't anything to do with the referendum. These children were taken under the assumption that a crime had been committed.

An assumption based solely on the fact the child didn't look like its parents? If a Spanish or Turkish couple were walking down the road with a blonde child do you think the cops should also have the right to effectively seize the child?

This case is utterly ridiculous. One family of Romas at the other end of Europe allegedly commits a crime of some variety and as such we see kids in Ireland being traumatically taken away from their parents by strangers due to a notion of collective culpability. Those denying it was racial profiling are full of sh*t to say the least, would this have happened to any other ethnic group in Ireland?

These families have been badly wronged by the state and I hope they sue.

FTA69 · 24-10-2013 10:50AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

White people came from the Caucasus before spread across the steppes into Russia and the Europe. The Caucasus are between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Nowhere near Pakistan or Northern India. Look at a map.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

You don't know what you're talking about. Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and even Somalis can be considered Caucasian.

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:50AM

desertcircus wrote: »

No, I wouldn't, because I can read a f*cking Wikipedia page on recessive genes. Being an illiterate racist idiot is not a valid defence.

So when you lose the argument you whine and shout racist eh?

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:51AM

FTA69 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

You don't know what you're talking about. Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and even Somalis can be considered Caucasian.

Caucasians are white people.

Have you filled out a form and they ask you your race?

Whites tick the box that says Caucasian.

Pakistanis and Sri-Lankans and other people tick Asian or other.

Stop trying to turn this into a racist issue.

The parents would have not had their kid taken away if they had provide the proper documents.

But of course the PC Brigade want to muddy the waters. They want their scapegoats and their heads on plates so they can feel all warm and fuzzy.

Nerdlingr · 24-10-2013 10:56AM

humanji wrote: »

No, they shouldn't. And this still has nothing to do with the referendum.

It does have to do with the children's referendum. That is what the referendum was all about - the welfare of the child and how much power to give the state. Now i know the gardai are walking a very thin line between "damned if they do and damned if they dont" but this case goes to show that what people said on the NO side were right. The state has the power to come to your door and take your children away. And they can do that on what you admit yourself are mere assumptions. This was brushed off as baloney and scaremongering. It wasn't and this case has proven it.

reprazant · 24-10-2013 10:56AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Caucasians are white people.

Have you filled out a form and they ask you your race?

Whites tick the box that says Caucasian.

Pakistanis and Sri-Lankans and other people tick Asian or other.

Stop trying to turn this into a racist issue.

The parents would have not had their kid taken away if they had provide the proper documents.

But of course the PC Brigade want to muddy the waters. They want their scapegoats and their heads on plates so they can feel all warm and fuzzy.

First of all white people are Caucasian, but so are many other colours.

Secondly, the family had the birth cert and passport as well as the date and hospital that the mother gave birth. The gardai felt this was not enough.

What other documents did they need?

desertcircus · 24-10-2013 10:57AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So when you lose the argument you whine and shout racist eh?

Have you read the Wikipedia page on recessive genes? Seriously? If you haven't, you're arguing from a position of base ignorance, and if you have...well, you may need to re-read it.

drumswan · 24-10-2013 10:58AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So when you lose the argument you whine and shout racist eh?

You going to tell us why its OK to leave the other kids with parents who are deemed a threat? Are do you just ignore the hard questions and pretend you are 'winning' an argument on the internet?

Tony EH · 24-10-2013 10:59AM

Overdahill wrote: »

Tony you sound like you know more about these strict rules than I do...can you elaborate?

My concern is that this was racially driven, as I can't envisage a similar situation unfolding in a (racial stereotyping alert) more typically 'irish' looking family. And if it could then we live in a state where my children could be taken into custody on a whim just because I could not satisfy investigating guards that they were mine. Innocent until proven guilty I thought???

Either way it's a shocking situation and I for one don't condone it and won't support it.

Under the Child Care Act, a member of the gardai can take into custody a child if they are concerned about that child's immediate welfare.

As far as I am aware the parents (at least in one of the cases) could not produce satisfactory documentation regarding the particular child in question and the gardai were forced to act, lest inaction produce a more terrible result.

I'm not saying that the gardai were entirely correct in their handling of these particular cases and they may have erred too much on the side of caution, but they DID act well within the law.

People yapping about "illegality" and "racism" are just spouting hot air.

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 11:00AM

reprazant wrote: »

First of all white people are Caucasian, but so are many other colours.

Secondly, the family had the birth cert and passport as well as the date and hospital that the mother gave birth. The gardai felt this was not enough.

What other documents did they need?

Documents can be forged and the Gardaí suspected they were forgeries.

The gypsy couple in Greece pulled the same scam.

So you can see why the Gardaí were suspicious.

Anyway the DNA test cleared it up and its all sorted.

End of.

The PC Brigade and the left wing activists who don't want to get real jobs are banging the racist drum.

It's getting old now. Give it a rest.

desertcircus · 24-10-2013 11:01AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Under the Child Care Act, a member of the gardai can take into custody a child if they are concerned about that child's immediate welfare.

As far as I am aware the parents (at least in one of the cases) could not produce satisfactory documentation regarding the particular child in question and the gardai were forced to act, lest inaction produce a more terrible result.

I'm not saying that the gardai were entirely correct in their handling of these particular cases and they may have erred too much on the side of caution, but they DID act well within the law.

People yapping about "illegality" and "racism" are just spouting hot air.

Lack of documentation does not trigger a reasonable suspicion of immediate danger to the child's welfare.

drumswan · 24-10-2013 11:03AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Under the Child Care Act, a member of the gardai can take into custody a child if they are concerned about that child's immediate welfare.

'Your children look different to you and you cant immediately provide documentation to prove they are yours' is not a reasonable excuse to take someones kids into care. It wouldnt happen to a middle class white Irish person.

josip · 24-10-2013 11:04AM

wildlifeboy wrote: »

I just drew a little map for you

Thanks for the little map, but it seems more like highlighting a feature on an existing map rather then drawing.

Please take some time to learn about what the term Caucasian means when discussing races of people.
It is not limited to a geographic region near the Caucusus mountains.
If it was, very few people would b classified as Caucasian.

thetwangman · 24-10-2013 11:04AM

The Gardai clearly went off half cocked. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and put it down to incompetance rather than racism. But the original message on facebook which led to this witch-hunt was clearly based on racial prejudice.

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 11:04AM

desertcircus wrote: »

Lack of documentation does not trigger a reasonable suspicion of immediate danger to the child's welfare.

Yes it does.

It clearly did in this case.

Tony EH · 24-10-2013 11:05AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Caucasians are white people.

Have you filled out a form and they ask you your race?

Whites tick the box that says Caucasian.

Pakistanis and Sri-Lankans and other people tick Asian or other.

In anthropological terms, people from the subcontinent of India and Pakistan etc, are considered Caucasian.

Geographically, they are Asian.

drumswan · 24-10-2013 11:05AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Yes it does.

It clearly did in this case.

This is not the DDR where the Stasi can go around demanding to 'see your papers', as much as you would like it to be.

Overdahill · 24-10-2013 11:06AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Documents can be forged and the Gardaí suspected they were forgeries.

The gypsy couple in Greece pulled the same scam.

So you can see why the Gardaí were suspicious.

Anyway the DNA test cleared it up and its all sorted.

End of.

The PC Brigade and the left wing activists who don't want to get real jobs are banging the racist drum.

It's getting old now. Give it a rest.

I despair. I bet you can't even see the inherent racial bias in your post. No point in arguing with you. Not sure I'd label myself pc brigade or left wing activist but I'm not on the same side as you. But I am off to my real job now so that's me out

desertcircus · 24-10-2013 11:07AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Yes it does.

It clearly did in this case.

How?

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 11:07AM

Tony EH wrote: »

In anthropological terms, people from the subcontinent of India and Pakistan etc, are considered Caucasian.

Geographically, they are Asian.

Who cares?

AlanG · 24-10-2013 11:08AM

old hippy wrote: »

The right wing element must be absolutely fuming with the latest developments. Those who like to dismiss racism in Ireland frankly haven't a leg to stand on.

I hope the Gardai involved are prosectuted.

What would you be saying if the DNA tests turned out the other way and by the time the Guards went back to get the kid it was gone? Please wait for the investigation to see if there was reasonable cause for suspicion. If it turns out that there was nothing suspicious then that will come out but there is also the possibility that the paperwork was not in order or there were other discrepancies in the parents story. As mentioned elsewhere there are loads of kidnapping cases where police missed the chance for a rescue as they were too conservative.
This is a part of what the majority of people of Ireland (who bothered to vote) voted for in the Children’s referendum, I take it every critic on this board made the effort to understand the amendment and voted when they had the chance?

intellectual dosser · 24-10-2013 11:08AM

drumswan wrote: »

'Your children look different to you and you cant immediately provide documentation to prove they are yours' is not a reasonable excuse to take someones kids into care. It wouldn't happen to a middle class white Irish person.

This is it in a nutshell.

I hope everyone posting here has imagined a pair of gardai knocking on their door and 'legitimately' taking their child away 'based on a hunch'. A lot of parents could be driven to do very crazy things under those circumstances.

What happened to Innocent until proven guilty? Could the child not have stayed with it's parents while the DNA tests were done?

Pompey Magnus · 24-10-2013 11:08AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Documents can be forged and the Gardaí suspected they were forgeries.

Why bother asking for the documents so?

FTA69 · 24-10-2013 11:08AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Caucasians are white people.

Read the article and stop pretending you know what you're on about. Racial forms include categories such as "White British" "White Irish" "Black African" etc. They only use the term caucasian to describe whites in the US.

Caucasian applies to your features etc and includes Indians, Ethiopians etc as much as it does white Europeans.

You're wrong. Get over it.

Similarly, I'm glad the boxer Saul Alvarez never visited Ireland as a child, what with him being a redhead child to dark Mexican parents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alvarez

Do people seriously think this would happen to any other ethnicity?

Fussgangerzone · 24-10-2013 11:10AM

Lack of documentation does not trigger a reasonable suspicion of immediate danger to the child's welfare.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Yes it does.

It clearly did in this case.

The supporting logic works. It all checks out. Let's wrap it up and go home.

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1