Does racism automatically make someone a bad person?

Leftist · 13-08-2013 1:52pm

brokenarms wrote: »

Im not sure. I'm am sure however, if I go down the street and ask, they will be able to tell how long you have to be here and how to maximise every single benefit.

go on then?

go and ask them and report back. I bet they can't tell you.

Nodin · 13-08-2013 1:57pm

Clandestine wrote: »

I can't remember the exact question but yeah you are right I messed up my response before. I think my main point was that I'd prefer that people who have been born and raised in their home country, the UK, for all their lives (I'm talking older people) shouldn't have to put up with people who won't assimilate or respect the culture of the UK which is becoming more of an issue. it seems their worries are not being respected and people who have lived in areas for a long time are leaving, and densely populated immigrant areas are replacing them, bringing other issues:
http://rt.com/news/uk-mass-immigration-segregation-873/

In London specifically, at the turn of the 19th century they used say that about the Jews. In the early 1950's, it was the West Indians, Jamaicans etc. In the early 1970's it was very specifically the "Pakistanis" (though a great deal of them had lived all or most of their lives in Uganda. In the 1980's and 90's it was the "blacks" again, and since 2001 the "muslims" are coming to get us. From the mid 80's personally I've been told its all going to end in tears, race war, the collapse of society etc and its all been wrong.

brokenarms · 13-08-2013 2:00pm

Leftist wrote: »

yep. You'd never catch our lot doing that.

they are divils for it. Come over here to purposefully work for one year and then live free for the rest of their lives.

I heard there are tv advertisements in poland run by agencies that promise the poles that they can get away with this and how they can do it.

I bet half of them can't even name the volunteers of 1916.

Sons of erin rise and shake a potato for the spirit of micky collins, sure tisn't it a grand soft day for the likes of these sheebeen foreign devils to take our gold? for what died the sons of roisin?

What foolish rubbish are you talking about with you stereotypical Irish rant.

Do you think that the current system is working?
Its not. We have a seriously overburdened welfare system.

The Irish abusers need weeded out just as much as the foreign nationals. The scenario I was referring to was my estate.
There is no Irish out of work in my estate. We all work. I know everyone here. I also appreciate this may not be the case for the rest of the country.

Leftist · 13-08-2013 2:03pm

brokenarms wrote: »

What foolish rubbish are you talking about with you stereotypical Irish rant.

Do you think that the current system is working?
Its not. We have a seriously overburdened welfare system.

The Irish abusers need weeded out just as much as the foreign nationals. The scenario I was referring to was my estate.
There is no Irish out of work in my estate. We all work. I know everyone here. I also appreciate this may not be the case for the rest of the country.

then why use it as an example?

you've suggested that these eastern europeans come over and take advantage because you can be sure that they know every trick in the book.

And this is all based on your assumption of your neighbours.

Do you really, honestly, know the reason why these eastern europeans are out of work and why? do you know them? if you do, what countries are they from?

brokenarms · 13-08-2013 2:27pm

Leftist wrote: »

then why use it as an example?

you've suggested that these eastern europeans come over and take advantage because you can be sure that they know every trick in the book.

And this is all based on your assumption of your neighbours.

Do you really, honestly, know the reason why these eastern europeans are out of work and why? do you know them? if you do, what countries are they from?

Well the thread was asking people opinions. Why would I not use the example. Its what is going on here..

I do know some of them . The particular people I have had a chat with say they get more money here on 1 week of benefits than they get with a whole months work in their own country.
Two of the lads I know are from Poland and the other lad is Moldova. They don't work because minimum wage here is less than they also get on benefits. They have a free house that the Mommy gets for the child along with benefits and they move in with their slice of the pie as well. Then sublet the other rooms!
Why would they go home.

This is what is going (on my estate).

I have no problem with any person who is not a long term burden.
I would hope and expect that migrants would be less dependent on the benefit system than people who'd lived here all their lives. For obvious reasons.
But most people would probably agree that entitlement to contributory benefits should be based on stamp contributions, rather than nationality.
I'm not sure which if these positions you fall into.

Leftist · 13-08-2013 2:30pm

brokenarms wrote: »

Well the thread was asking people opinions. Why would I not use the example. Its what is going on here..

I do know some of them . The particular people I have had a chat with say they get more money here on 1 week of benefits than they get with a whole months work in their own country.
Two of the lads I know are from Poland and the other lad is Moldova. They don't work because minimum wage here is less than they also get on benefits. They have a free house that the Mommy gets for the child along with benefits and they move in with their slice of the pie as well. Then sublet the other rooms!
Why would they go home.

This is what is going (on my estate).

.

I reckon you're telling porkies.

it's all too convenient and you were already tripping over yourself about the one year work and then onto the dole.

Nodin · 13-08-2013 2:30pm

brokenarms wrote: »

Well the thread was asking people opinions. Why would I not use the example. Its what is going on here..

I do know some of them . The particular people I have had a chat with say they get more money here on 1 week of benefits than they get with a whole months work in their own country.
Two of the lads I know are from Poland and the other lad is Moldova. They don't work because minimum wage here is less than they also get on benefits. They have a free house that the Mommy gets for the child along with benefits and they move in with their slice of the pie as well. Then sublet the other rooms!
Why would they go home.

This is what is going (on my estate). .

I belieb believe you.

Honestly.

No sarcasm.

No, really.

You do realise that as they're living here paying our prices the amount they get back home is entirely irrelevant....?

Eight Ball · 13-08-2013 2:34pm

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHHHH wrote: »

My mother is the most racist women i have ever met, she keeps her views under wraps and would only say stuff like that in front of family members, shes the kindest women underneath it all but that doesnt make it right either, shes a flat out racist but shes me ma

Most people keep their views under wraps on the subject. In my view the majority of people id know are racist towards others in some way.

brokenarms · 13-08-2013 2:40pm

Why are you cutting up my comments? Please quote them in full if you want to debate them so its not taken out of context.

Do you really believe benefit tourism does not exist in ireland? Surely you are not that naive.

Your pokes at me with sarcasm speaks volume to me TBH.

@ Leftist. No. I am not telling lies.
Not knowing the exact time of residence before one can start their gainful life on our benefit system is hardly tripping over myself.

Leftist · 13-08-2013 2:52pm

brokenarms wrote: »

Why are you cutting up my comments? Please quote them in full if you want to debate them so its not taken out of context.

Do you really believe benefit tourism does not exist in ireland? Surely you are not that naive.

Your pokes at me with sarcasm speaks volume to me TBH.

@ Leftist. No. I am not telling lies.
Not knowing the exact time of residence before one can start their gainful life on our benefit system is hardly tripping over myself.

say all of this stuff was actually happening.

You know everyone in your estate.
All of the irish residents work.
All (?) of the foreigners (which consist of 2x poles and 1x moldovan) do not work. Or, are actively benefit cheating.

Say all of that is true.

Do you base your opinion on irish people and non-nationals on the experience of what has to be a very small housing estate?

You seem to be.

Mark Tapley · 13-08-2013 3:03pm

Clandestine wrote: »

Am I not allowed to have concerns for another countries well being?

You are using this as a cover for your xenophobic views.

old hippy · 13-08-2013 5:14pm

Clandestine wrote: »

Am I not allowed to have concerns for another countries well being?

If you're concerned about the country I live in, maybe you should stop promoting the usual garbage about its ethnic makeup and worry about more important things like imperialism, destruction of the environment and so forth?

For the most part, we rub along pretty well over here.

woodoo · 13-08-2013 9:18pm

Leftist wrote: »

86% still isn't the minority though is it? I'd imagine it's got a long way to go to be a minority if the rate is 10% drop in 20 years.

Bear in mind many children with mixed race will not be considered white.

Either way it's totally and absolutely irrelevant.

Morons were complaining about migrants to their towns and villages, from within their own country until 20 years ago. There will always be idiots that are frightened by outsiders coming in. This is natural reaction among people who don't have any concept of what it is like to live outside the area which they grew up.

So what if some kid isn't white? are we to suggest that the 14% of Sweden that isn't white cannot be considered Swedish?

Will some black kids who were born in ireland and grew up in ireland, even some who played GAA, will they be considered irish?

I look at it long term. Perhaps you are happy for white Europeans to be a minority in the coming decades. I would prefer that not to be the case. I am happy to see some immigration that is healthy. But i think we should be letting a lot less people in than we are and we should be selecting people based on their skills. We don't owe anyone a home.

Feathers · 13-08-2013 11:41pm

woodoo wrote: »

I look at it long term. Perhaps you are happy for white Europeans to be a minority in the coming decades. I would prefer that not to be the case. I am happy to see some immigration that is healthy. But i think we should be letting a lot less people in than we are and we should be selecting people based on their skills. We don't owe anyone a home.

One reason people say that white people will be in a minority in year X isn't due solely to immigration; it's due to the fact that people will consider someone with a white parent & a black parent to be black, i.e. hypodescent (or the 'one drop' rule).

With this, you've also got the fact that Muslims, who are primarily non-white, are more likely than other families nowadays to have a higher number of kids.

Unless your in favour of banning mix race marriages & introducing something like China's one-child policy, you're likely to end up with a white minority even with a small amount of immigration from high skilled workers.

If people are integrating into society though — consider themselves Irish & take an active part in the community, why is it an issue if they're white or not?

woodoo · 14-08-2013 12:29am

Feathers wrote: »

One reason people say that white people will be in a minority in year X isn't due solely to immigration; it's due to the fact that people will consider someone with a white parent & a black parent to be black, i.e. hypodescent (or the 'one drop' rule).

With this, you've also got the fact that Muslims, who are primarily non-white, are more likely than other families nowadays to have a higher number of kids.

Unless your in favour of banning mix race marriages & introducing something like China's one-child policy, you're likely to end up with a white minority even with a small amount of immigration from high skilled workers.

If people are integrating into society though — consider themselves Irish & take an active part in the community, why is it an issue if they're white or not?

I'm not too hung up on skin colour if the immigrants that do come integrate like that then great. I don't want to see large groups stay separate and i suspect that is exactly what will happen with muslim immigrants. They will separate themselves. If they have large enough numbers they will be agitating for change and that change may not sit well with our western values. Why bring that sort of potential grief on yourself. Keep the number of immigrants low and they will likely integrate better. Islam aside.

Feathers · 14-08-2013 8:37am

woodoo wrote: »

I'm not too hung up on skin colour if the immigrants that do come integrate like that then great. I don't want to see large groups stay separate and i suspect that is exactly what will happen with muslim immigrants. They will separate themselves. If they have large enough numbers they will be agitating for change and that change may not sit well with our western values. Why bring that sort of potential grief on yourself. Keep the number of immigrants low and they will likely integrate better. Islam aside.

I think it comes across as a much more rational debate when it's focused on the issues then - the influence of religion on politics & the integration of immigrants into society.

There are plenty of atheist/Catholic/Hindu non-white people; there are also, contrary to media portrayal, plenty of moderate Muslims who integrate fully into society (who would probably fit more in your highly skilled bracket).

On the other hand then, we've people like Polish immigrants - as Catholic and white as ourselves, but also with a reputation for not integrating & keeping to themselves.

I agree that immigration should be keep to a reasonable rate pro rata our population size & that it should now be restricted to highly skilled workers. Bringing skin colour into it is, at best, a distraction & gives people a reason not to engage with the real issues. Let's focus on those issues (but in another thread, because they're not about racism

)

allibastor · 14-08-2013 9:24am

cometogether wrote: »

I'd like to start off this post by saying that I have no racist views whatsoever. However, I have got close friends and members of my family that would hold views like these, but yet are all really nice good people. Can the two be compatible? I'm torn, as I obviously get on very well with them as they're close friends, but I do feel very uncomfortable when they come out saying racist things, particularly in reference to Africans and the use of the 'N' word. What do the rest of you think about this?

It depends on what they do as a racist. I have a few black friends, a few of them are rasicst as hell. I also joke with them about them being black lads and all that. Still, I have taken on fights to help them out and have gotten them jobs where others would not have.

On the whole I would think I am a good person, but I dont think race jokes are funny. I also find its easier to speak in general terms of race, such as most black girls have big asses. Most white guys have tiny noses, Most chinese people have slanted eyes.

As said, If I saw someone picking on someone in the street I would defend them. I also dont think I am ignorant as I have a very High IQ and a, considered " Extremley emotionally intellegent" By standard testing. Its just the viewes I was brough up with from my Family of origin.

So do you think I am a bad person.

14-08-2013 12:27pm

allibastor wrote: »

It depends on what they do as a racist. I have a few black friends.... I also find its easier to speak in general terms of race, such as most black girls have big asses. Most white guys have tiny noses, Most chinese people have slanted eyes.

.. I have a very High IQ and a, considered " Extremley emotionally intellegent" By standard testing.

Perhaps the testing was substandard.

old hippy · 14-08-2013 12:30pm

woodoo wrote: »

I don't want to see large groups stay separate and i suspect that is exactly what will happen with muslim immigrants. They will separate themselves. If they have large enough numbers they will be agitating for change and that change may not sit well with our western values. Why bring that sort of potential grief on yourself. Keep the number of immigrants low and they will likely integrate better. Islam aside.

If I was Muslim, I'd want to be separate from people who think like you do.

allibastor · 14-08-2013 2:20pm

9959 wrote: »

Perhaps the testing was substandard.

Perhaps, but for the money my company paid for the testing of its staff I would hope not.

Good, well thought out answer by the way, Well done you!!!! Would you like a shiny button.

allibastor · 14-08-2013 2:24pm

old hippy wrote: »

If I was Muslim, I'd want to be separate from people who think like you do.

Hippy, I do think that kind of answer is a bit dangerous. It has been proven time and again with cultures with hardline views, be they religion or what not, that if when they arrive in a new place they group, and then have issues with thier host area not adapting to them, while they still pratice thier own hardline views. I mean you only have to look at the UK. to see thier own problems with the Muslim extremists. And I am also aware of the other side, Those tools in the English defence league or what ever its called.

johnny_knoxvile · 14-08-2013 2:28pm

you can be a bad person and love other ethnic groups.

Jeffrey Dalmer loved black people so much he ate them.

14-08-2013 3:35pm

allibastor wrote: »

It depends...

On the whole I would think I am a good person... but I dont think race jokes are funny. I also find its easier to speak in general terms of race, such as most black girls have big asses. Most white guys have tiny noses, Most chinese people have slanted eyes.

... I also dont think I am ignorant as I have a very High IQ and a, considered " Extremley emotionally intellegent" By standard testing....

Do you think blowing your own trumpet is an emotionally intelligent thing to do?
Maybe you should give yourself a 'shiny button', along with some more self-praise!

old hippy · 14-08-2013 5:21pm

allibastor wrote: »

Hippy, I do think that kind of answer is a bit dangerous. It has been proven time and again with cultures with hardline views, be they religion or what not, that if when they arrive in a new place they group, and then have issues with thier host area not adapting to them, while they still pratice thier own hardline views. I mean you only have to look at the UK. to see thier own problems with the Muslim extremists. And I am also aware of the other side, Those tools in the English defence league or what ever its called.

A minority of vocal idiots. We get along mostly fine.

allibastor · 15-08-2013 10:51am

9959 wrote: »

Do you think blowing your own trumpet is an emotionally intelligent thing to do?
Maybe you should give yourself a 'shiny button', along with some more self-praise!

I was answering a question posted about does being rascist make you a bad person. if I wante dto blow my own trumpet I would have gone to great lenghts to do so. I was speaking more on the comments that having rasicts sayings or what not automatically makes you ignorant.

allibastor · 15-08-2013 10:52am

old hippy wrote: »

A minority of vocal idiots. We get along mostly fine.

I know mostly we do, As said though its still a problem is it not.

NTMK · 15-08-2013 11:07am

allibastor wrote: »

I know mostly we do, As said though its still a problem is it not.

Not particularly there is the same amount of vocal idiots in islam and all religions as there was before 9/11 and 7/7 its just people are listening to them now giving them the attention they crave

Theres plenty of Irish born muslims that integrated perfectly into irish society that get a ton of **** from our own inbreds because its seen as acceptable to be a prick to muslims as they might be terrorists:rolleyes:

Is it any wonder they stick to their own kind when they recieve a ton of **** from the natives

Leftist · 15-08-2013 11:18am

The people who buy into this islamophobe propaganda will do it because they want it, they need it.

The same when europeans bought into anti-semitic propoganda, people want a smaller, weaker group to feel superior to. It's a transparent weakness of the mind, for someone so low in self-respect that they need a common enemy and they need a group to stand behind. They have no individuality.

The worst thing is hearing irish people roll off daily mail propoganda, the same daily mail who had irish people as the common enemy a few decades ago. But we're fine now, in small doses of course.

allibastor · 15-08-2013 11:19am

NTMK wrote: »

Not particularly there is the same amount of vocal idiots in islam and all religions as there was before 9/11 and 7/7 its just people are listening to them now giving them the attention they crave

Theres plenty of Irish born muslims that integrated perfectly into irish society that get a ton of **** from our own inbreds because its seen as acceptable to be a prick to muslims as they might be terrorists:rolleyes:

Is it any wonder they stick to their own kind when they recieve a ton of **** from the natives

Ha, i understand your point.

A question, do you know many muslims living here? I do know a good few of them, mostly they dont intergrate with irish because they fidn our values offensive. A food friend of mine who was going out with an irish girl at the time was told by his father to " use her for your pleasure, but take it no more than that, you can not marry a girl like this as you would shame us"
A good lot of the time the clash of ideals and values brings out more problems than anythign else, and alot of the time the smaller groups think we all should adapt to them, and not the other way around.

Leftist · 15-08-2013 11:22am

allibastor wrote: »

Ha, i understand your point.

A question, do you know many muslims living here? I do know a good few of them, mostly they dont intergrate with irish because they fidn our values offensive. A food friend of mine who was going out with an irish girl at the time was told by his father to " use her for your pleasure, but take it no more than that, you can not marry a girl like this as you would shame us"
A good lot of the time the clash of ideals and values brings out more problems than anythign else, and alot of the time the smaller groups think we all should adapt to them, and not the other way around.

this is made up rubbish.

Does racism automatically make someone a bad person?

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