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Does racism automatically make someone a bad person?

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  • 11-08-2013 11:21pm
    #1
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭


    I'd like to start off this post by saying that I have no racist views whatsoever. However, I have got close friends and members of my family that would hold views like these, but yet are all really nice good people. Can the two be compatible? I'm torn, as I obviously get on very well with them as they're close friends, but I do feel very uncomfortable when they come out saying racist things, particularly in reference to Africans and the use of the 'N' word. What do the rest of you think about this?


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    #2
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    I would assume them to be ignorant, rather than just a bad person


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    #3
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Not necessarily but it says a lot about their levels of ingorance and tolerance if they are willing to single out a person or group

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #4
    EdenHazard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭EdenHazard


    No but I actually die a little when I hear what I thought was such a good person come out with racist remarks.


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    #5
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I have mixed feelings on this - part of me says yes but then my Dad and Stepmother are racist (but they wouldnt admit to it) and my Mums friends who were like grandparents to me were racist too - I guess like links I think they were just ignorant

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #6
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭cometogether


    Links234 wrote: »
    I would assume them to be ignorant, rather than just a bad person
    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Not necessarily but it says a lot about their levels of ingorance and tolerance if they are willing to single out a person or group

    Yeah I'd think that as well to be honest. But one of these lads is in college at the moment, surely he would have more of a cop on at this stage I'd have thought?


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    #7
    Ace Attorney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭Ace Attorney


    My mother is the most racist women i have ever met, she keeps her views under wraps and would only say stuff like that in front of family members, shes the kindest women underneath it all but that doesnt make it right either, shes a flat out racist but shes me ma


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    #8
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    cometogether wrote: »
    Yeah I'd think that as well to be honest. But one of these lads is in college at the moment, surely he would have more of a cop on at this stage I'd have thought?

    Yes but then he may have been educated in a very monocultural secondary school and come from a family that is very closed minded

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    Racism is a fear, the same way any form of hatred is a fear. Unfortunately it's a fear that can end up causing hurt to others.

    It depends on your personal definition of a "bad person."


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    #10
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    cometogether wrote: »
    Yeah I'd think that as well to be honest. But one of these lads is in college at the moment, surely he would have more of a cop on at this stage I'd have thought?

    Level of education is only part of it, environmental and social conditioning ie his family and upbringing etc, are more likely to shape his opinions.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #11
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Define what you mean by racism OP


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    #12
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭cometogether


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Yes but then he may have been educated in a very monocultural secondary school and come from a family that is very closed minded

    Well I went to school with him, an all boys school in a regional town in Munster. I wonder does the fact that he comes from a rural farming background have anything to do with it? Obviously not tarring all farmers or rural people with the same brush here


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    #13
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHHHH wrote: »
    My mother is the most racist women i have ever met, she keeps her views under wraps and would only say stuff like that in front of family members, shes the kindest women underneath it all but that doesnt make it right either, shes a flat out racist but shes me ma


    Ever tell her you were going out with another race for the laugh?


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    #14
    Arawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,158 ✭✭✭Arawn


    whirlpool wrote: »
    Racism is a fear, the same way any form of hatred is a fear. Unfortunately it's a fear that can end up causing hurt to others.

    It depends on your personal definition of a "bad person."

    hatred is not fear.


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    #15
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Arawn wrote: »
    hatred is not fear.

    But it can be based on fear

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #16
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    hmmmm....I've had some South African colleagues over the years and some of my good friends are South African.
    The majority (all the ones I got along with) hadn't a racist bone in them, one of them had a best friend who was black and married his baby sister.

    But bloody hell, some of the sayings they've come out with (most of them really funny but super non-pc). To me it was just a product of the environment they grew up in. Seems to be the same with a lot of the older generation Irish I've met.

    Wouldn't necessarily say they're bad people, just uneducated and blinkered.


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    #17
    raah!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭raah!


    It makes them neither automatically bad nor automatically ignorant.


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    #18
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    Not always, no. I know a few people who make racist remarks but are in general nice people.

    It's just pure ignorance really, and having no real experience of life outside of the area they grew up and still live in, thought hat certainly doesn't excuse it. It's ingrained in a lot of Irish people to have an intense and irrational dislike of people who are different to them. The same people would make remarks about for example, a man with long hair, or multiple piercings

    Like I said, it's pure ignorance.


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    #19
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    Arawn wrote: »
    hatred is not fear.

    Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.


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    #20
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I think Irish people are ignorant rather racist. The surburb where I live doesnt have any diversity except for a good few Church of Ireland families and everyone sends their children to private catholic schools(all white Irish catholics) and then onto college courses which are mainly white Irish. Even though there is large number of non nationals you can still have no connect with them in daily life and have no idea of their customs or culture. I didnt have a single non-national friend until I moved school this year and most of my friends wouldnt have either. Meaning a comment may seem racist is just ignorant


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    #21
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    mango salsa wrote: »
    But it can be based on fear

    Not even "based on." It is solely fear. It manifests itself in different ways, but it is fear.


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    #22
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭cometogether


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Define what you mean by racism OP

    Discrimination against someone based on race, ethnicity, nationality, creed etc. Is the definition not fairly straightforward?:confused:


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    #23
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    An idiot,yes.
    A bad person,no.


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    #24
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    cometogether wrote: »
    Discrimination against someone based on race, ethnicity, nationality, creed etc. Is the definition not fairly straightforward?:confused:
    You wouldn't believe how many different ways people interpret the word

    Based on that, well I know there are differences in races but I wouldn't discriminate based on these. I'd only bring these differences up if it was relevant in a discussion or whatever


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    #25
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    cometogether wrote: »
    Well I went to school with him, an all boys school in a regional town in Munster. I wonder does the fact that he comes from a rural farming background have anything to do with it? Obviously not tarring all farmers or rural people with the same brush here

    Hello Alan Partridge. :)


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    #26
    Ace Attorney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭Ace Attorney


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ever tell her you were going out with another race for the laugh?

    I used to kinda joke that i go out and bring a coloured girl home at the weekend and she was just like yea right, Wish i did tho just to see my mams face at breakfast :D


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    #27
    Arawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,158 ✭✭✭Arawn


    whirlpool wrote: »
    Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.

    No, It's not. All hatred is a form of fear is a stupid statement


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    #28
    dirtyden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    cometogether wrote: »
    Well I went to school with him, an all boys school in a regional town in Munster. I wonder does the fact that he comes from a rural farming background have anything to do with it? Obviously not tarring all farmers or rural people with the same brush here
    Do you not see any juxtaposition between this and your original post?


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    #29
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Arawn wrote: »
    hatred is not fear.

    ah, but fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred ;)


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    #30
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    whirlpool wrote: »
    Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.

    No it isn't. There are a couple of people I really hate, hate so much that that if I heard they'd died I'd literally dance on their graves.

    I'm not in any way afraid of them nor have I ever been.


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    #31
    Pretty Polly
    Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Pretty Polly


    ''I'm not racist but I hate.........''

    Thats such an Irish thing to say I think.


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