Does racism automatically make someone a bad person?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

.....it may have had aliens involved, given we're talking about something that didn't happen.



...if you want to discuss the other thread, I'd suggest that's the place for it.

Ah the classic Nodin "Do as I say, not as I do"! Perhaps I should ask you ten times for an answer of why you are being a hypocrite on this matter?

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Ah the classic Nodin "Do as I say, not as I do"! Perhaps I should ask you ten times for an answer of why you are being a hypocrite on this matter?

Bit of a job, seeing as I'm not.

laoch na mona

it depends on how their racism manifests itself
some older people I known are racist but that seems to be due to ignorance and they don't seem to be racist all the time.

jank

Friend Computer wrote: »

Don't be silly, Jank, there isn't a history of systemic discrimination against black people! That's all a fantastical re-writing of history, created by the liberal-commie alliance to dupe innocent young men into leaving their pure white women to be corrupted!

Em, maybe put the tinfoil hat away. I never said there was but please quote me if I did....

Racism can be both ways, only some people here seem to think that anytime a white person attacks a black person its racism by default, if its the other way around its never racism, or the burden of proof is more explicit. That is hypocrisy.

Just look at the Trayvon Martin media circus. White on black racism... only the guy was Hispanic!

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Em, maybe put the tinfoil hat away. I never said there was but please quote me if I did....

Racism can be both ways, only some people here seem to think that anytime a white person attacks a black person its racism by default, if its the other way around its never racism, or the burden of proof is more explicit. That is hypocrisy.

Just look at the Trayvon Martin media circus. White on black racism... only the guy was Hispanic!

...who? Links and quotes please.

biko

Itwasntme. wrote: »

False. I am a Tutsi and there is an ethnic difference between Hutus and Tutsis. Yes, those lines have been blurred by intermarriages over time but we are ethnically different. Recent history books will tell you that this is not the case and that Hutu and Tutsi is an economic dichotomy engineered by the Belgians to further their own agenda but most of those books were not written by Rwandans and their knowledge of our history is very limited. Rwandan oral history tells a different story.

We also did not 'get along' most of the time and neither did it just happen that one day the Hutus decided to annihilate all Tutsis. And while we are all of the same race, it was most definitely a hate crime along the lines of a racist crime.

Sound, thanks for clarifying the issue. When you refer to the Belgians I suppose it's down to African peoples forced together into nations as a result of map drawings by colonial powers?

Henlars67

Nodin wrote: »

...if you want to discuss the other thread, I'd suggest that's the place for it.

Pretty typical response from you. Another failure to address the points made to contradict your extremely one sided view of racism

Friend Computer

jank wrote: »

Em, maybe put the tinfoil hat away. I never said there was but please quote me if I did....

Maybe I should've been even more heavy-handed with the satire, I thought it was pretty obvious though...

Racism can be both ways, only some people here seem to think that anytime a white person attacks a black person its racism by default, if its the other way around its never racism, or the burden of proof is more explicit. That is hypocrisy.

Shall I refer you again to the bit about history of systemic discrimination? It's not hyporcisy, Jank, it's called nuance. Not every situation is the same which is why there is a shift in the burden of proof. It's more likely that a white person attacking a black person is racist because... well statistically it's just more likely to happen, I'm not aware of any kind of black-on-white form of systemic discrimination in the Western world nor of any organisations--political or otherwise--who make it their business to demonise and vilify non-whites.

How many times has a white person been targeted--again, so we're clear, in the Western world--because they're white? Don't get me wrong, I'm not some tumblr-esque social justice warrior but I also don't carry around a persecution complex.

jank

Friend Computer wrote: »

Maybe I should've been even more heavy-handed with the satire, I thought it was pretty obvious though...

Shall I refer you again to the bit about history of systemic discrimination? It's not hyporcisy, Jank, it's called nuance. Not every situation is the same which is why there is a shift in the burden of proof. It's more likely that a white person attacking a black person is racist because... well statistically it's just more likely to happen, I'm not aware of any kind of black-on-white form of systemic discrimination in the Western world nor of any organisations--political or otherwise--who make it their business to demonise and vilify non-whites.

How many times has a white person been targeted--again, so we're clear, in the Western world--because they're white? Don't get me wrong, I'm not some tumblr-esque social justice warrior but I also don't carry around a persecution complex.

Em, statistically

"After researching the FBI numbers for “Suicide of a Superpower,” this writer concluded: “An analysis of ‘single offender victimization figures’ from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white — with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study.”
http://www.humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6


You have not heard of the Nation of Islam. Come off it!!!

Christ the Redeemer

Mostly ignorant. But those that attempt to spread their ignorance on the internet are always bad people.

They blame their own pathetic failure of a life on some foreigners they never met.

old hippy

Clandestine wrote: »

http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/census/869_CCSR_Bulletin_How_has_ethnic_diversity_grown_v4NW.pdf
White British:
1991-93%
2001-87%
2011-80%

That is a huge and worrying drop imo

And it's worrying, why?

Christ the Redeemer

old hippy wrote: »

And it's worrying, why?

*insert poorly spelled rant about white genocide*

Clandestine

old hippy wrote: »

And it's worrying, why?

Because the white, British born citizens of Britain are becoming a minority in their own country? How would you like it if gypsies started becoming a majority in Ireland? Many ethnic groups do not integrate very well with the indigenous population, and people originally living in the UK become isolated and leave, making the issue worse. Crime is already rising and religions like Christianity are being replaced by Islam which is in my opinion, a far worse alternative.

old hippy

Because the white, British born citizens of Britain are becoming a minority in their own country?

And what's wrong with that? It's a big melting pot, so what?

How would you like it if gypsies started becoming a majority in Ireland?

Unlikely but what's wrong with that?


Many ethnic groups do not integrate very well with the indigenous population,

Because people like you have a problem with integration, I reckons.

and people originally living in the UK become isolated and leave, making the issue worse.

Yes, it's horrific when the little englanders take up residence in the costa del crime :rolleyes:

Crime is already rising and religions like Christianity are being replaced by Islam which is in my opinion, a far worse alternative.

So, there's no crime from Christianity, hmmm? Bobbins. Crime rate in the UK is actually falling. Not rising. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/18/crime-survey-fall-england-wales

Christ the Redeemer

Clandestine wrote: »

Because the white, British born citizens of Britain are becoming a minority in their own country? How would you like it if gypsies started becoming a majority in Ireland? Many ethnic groups do not integrate very well with the indigenous population, and people originally living in the UK become isolated and leave, making the issue worse. Crime is already rising and religions like Christianity are being replaced by Islam which is in my opinion, a far worse alternative.

You should join Stormfront.

Friend Computer

jank wrote: »

Em, statistically

"After researching the FBI numbers for “Suicide of a Superpower,” this writer concluded: “An analysis of ‘single offender victimization figures’ from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white — with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study.”
http://www.humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

You'll excuse me if I don't take the word of a publication that touts itself with the tagline "Powerful Conservative Voices" very seriously on this subject. And also given the author is Pat Buchanan. And the lack of links to the stats.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6

Alright, the stats there bear out. But you have to admit there might be a perception that blacks are more at risk; when you consider the number of white nationalist/white supremacist organisations it's hard not to see why.

Still, what're the stats with regards numbers of whites versus blacks in... shall we say problem areas of cities?

Statistics don't really tell you much if you ignore the context behind them.

You have not heard of the Nation of Islam. Come off it!!!

Not in recent times, no.

Christ the Redeemer

old hippy wrote: »

So, there's no crime from Christianity, hmmm? Bobbins. Crime rate in the UK is actually falling. Not rising.

This is a great example of popular misconceptions. like teen pregancy has been dropping steadily with the crime rate, but ask a daily mail reader and they will tell you the opposite.

These papers cherry pick data to make it seem like a steady rise in overall crime when stats might say "knife attacks on the rise" or "violent crime on the rise".

but we should just blame the brown people because us whites are way above violent crime and knife attacks.

Clandestine

[QUOTE=old hippy;85958504
So, there's no crime from Christianity, hmmm? Bobbins. Crime rate in the UK is actually falling. Not rising. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/18/crime-survey-fall-england-wales[/QUOTE]

I poorly worded that, I should have said "among high immigrant areas etc."

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

You should join Stormfront.

Refute my points please, don't attack me. Ad hominem attacks are worthless

Christ the Redeemer

Clandestine wrote: »

Refute my points please, don't attack me. Ad hominem attacks are worthless

Na'h. "scientific racism" went out with Charles Darwin's generation. I think I'll stick to mockery of bad hatred based "opinions".

matthew8

It depends entirely on how racist they are and whether they act on it. A fear or moderate distrust of another race can sometimes be understandable but hatred of them would make me question that person's morals.

tritium

Friend Computer wrote: »

You'll excuse me if I don't take the word of a publication that touts itself with the tagline "Powerful Conservative Voices" very seriously on this subject. And also given the author is Pat Buchanan. And the lack of links to the stats.

Alright, the stats there bear out. But you have to admit there might be a perception that blacks are more at risk; when you consider the number of white nationalist/white supremacist organisations it's hard not to see why.

Still, what're the stats with regards numbers of whites versus blacks in... shall we say problem areas of cities?

Statistics don't really tell you much if you ignore the context behind them.

Not in recent times, no.

If I understand you right, the statistics don't fit your hypothesis so you're going to disregard the statistics?

Wtf

Opinion is not fact people

Friend Computer

tritium wrote: »

If I understand you right

You don't.

[-0-]

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

You should join Stormfront.

He'd be more welcome in Stormont. :pac:

tritium

Friend Computer wrote: »

You don't.

OK, then I'll assume you concede your assertion that white on black violence was more prevalent was hugely wrong.

Regarding perception - perception is worthless, the lifeblood of bigots, racists, mysogonists, misandrists and every group who thrives on a " they took our jobs" mantra. The only worthwhile thing to do with perception is to challenge it.

You are right about contextualising statistics, however to often this means ignoring what they tell us because the data doesn't suit. If there is a hugely disproportion are level of poverty in a given group this needs to be tackeled in parallel to other issues, not instead of. Pretending that violent crime can somehow be justified by social circumstance or past wrongs is frankly a cop out.

Nodin

biko wrote: »

Sound, thanks for clarifying the issue. When you refer to the Belgians I suppose it's down to African peoples forced together into nations as a result of map drawings by colonial powers?

...the Belgians declared one group "superior" to the other, issued separate identity cards based on ethnicity and used the distinction as a form of divide and conquer, exaggerating what tensions may have already existed.

Nodin

Clandestine wrote: »

Because the white, British born citizens of Britain are becoming a minority in their own country? How would you like it if gypsies started becoming a majority in Ireland? Many ethnic groups do not integrate very well with the indigenous population, and people originally living in the UK become isolated and leave, making the issue worse. Crime is already rising and religions like Christianity are being replaced by Islam which is in my opinion, a far worse alternative.

....hmmmm, needs only a tad more hysterical tone to be perfect.

You do realise that a lot of British born citizens aren't white?

Friend Computer

tritium wrote: »

OK, then I'll assume you concede your assertion that white on black violence was more prevalent was hugely wrong.

Regarding perception - perception is worthless, the lifeblood of bigots, racists, mysogonists, misandrists and every group who thrives on a " they took our jobs" mantra. The only worthwhile thing to do with perception is to challenge it.

You are right about contextualising statistics, however to often this means ignoring what they tell us because the data doesn't suit. If there is a hugely disproportion are level of poverty in a given group this needs to be tackeled in parallel to other issues, not instead of. Pretending that violent crime can somehow be justified by social circumstance or past wrongs is frankly a cop out.

That's all I was getting at. Too often in these threads there's either an undercurrent or outright statement of "they're criminals because they're black" while ignoring the underlying social issues that affect more blacks than whites.

I'm not saying it's a justification for crime only that it should be used to understand why it's such a problem instead of lazily--and usually agenda-ladenly--blaming it on race. This isn't an issue of race it's a social issue that disproportionally affects one more than the other.

Nodin

Friend Computer wrote: »

That's all I was getting at. Too often in these threads there's either an undercurrent or outright statement of "they're criminals because they're black" while ignoring the underlying social issues that affect more blacks than whites.

I'm not saying it's a justification for crime only that it should be used to understand why it's such a problem instead of lazily--and usually agenda-ladenly--blaming it on race. This isn't an issue of race it's a social issue that disproportionally affects one more than the other.

Not to mention certain facts in regards to convictions, arrests etc

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/06/04/marijuana_possession_laws_aclu_report_why_blacks_are_four_times_more_likely.html

Christ the Redeemer

Nodin wrote: »

Not to mention certain facts in regards to convictions, arrests etc

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/06/04/marijuana_possession_laws_aclu_report_why_blacks_are_four_times_more_likely.html

The entire US justice system is racist.

woodoo

Leftist wrote: »

80%? dangerously close to a minority.

As for Sweden's poultry 86% white populace? dear me, they are down to their last numbers.
Does it hurt when you try to spell your name?

Before you get too smart look at the trend in those numbers.