Does racism automatically make someone a bad person?

cometogether · 11-08-2013 10:21pm #1

I'd like to start off this post by saying that I have no racist views whatsoever. However, I have got close friends and members of my family that would hold views like these, but yet are all really nice good people. Can the two be compatible? I'm torn, as I obviously get on very well with them as they're close friends, but I do feel very uncomfortable when they come out saying racist things, particularly in reference to Africans and the use of the 'N' word. What do the rest of you think about this?

Links234 · 11-08-2013 10:24pm

I would assume them to be ignorant, rather than just a bad person

Ten of Swords · 11-08-2013 10:25pm

Not necessarily but it says a lot about their levels of ingorance and tolerance if they are willing to single out a person or group

EdenHazard · 11-08-2013 10:26pm

No but I actually die a little when I hear what I thought was such a good person come out with racist remarks.

Annasopra · 11-08-2013 10:27pm

I have mixed feelings on this - part of me says yes but then my Dad and Stepmother are racist (but they wouldnt admit to it) and my Mums friends who were like grandparents to me were racist too - I guess like links I think they were just ignorant

cometogether · 11-08-2013 10:28pm

Links234 wrote: »

I would assume them to be ignorant, rather than just a bad person

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Not necessarily but it says a lot about their levels of ingorance and tolerance if they are willing to single out a person or group

Yeah I'd think that as well to be honest. But one of these lads is in college at the moment, surely he would have more of a cop on at this stage I'd have thought?

Ace Attorney · 11-08-2013 10:30pm

My mother is the most racist women i have ever met, she keeps her views under wraps and would only say stuff like that in front of family members, shes the kindest women underneath it all but that doesnt make it right either, shes a flat out racist but shes me ma

Annasopra · 11-08-2013 10:30pm

cometogether wrote: »

Yeah I'd think that as well to be honest. But one of these lads is in college at the moment, surely he would have more of a cop on at this stage I'd have thought?

Yes but then he may have been educated in a very monocultural secondary school and come from a family that is very closed minded

whirlpool · 11-08-2013 10:30pm

Racism is a fear, the same way any form of hatred is a fear. Unfortunately it's a fear that can end up causing hurt to others.

It depends on your personal definition of a "bad person."

Ten of Swords · 11-08-2013 10:32pm

cometogether wrote: »

Yeah I'd think that as well to be honest. But one of these lads is in college at the moment, surely he would have more of a cop on at this stage I'd have thought?

Level of education is only part of it, environmental and social conditioning ie his family and upbringing etc, are more likely to shape his opinions.

Clandestine · 11-08-2013 10:32pm

Define what you mean by racism OP

cometogether · 11-08-2013 10:32pm

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes but then he may have been educated in a very monocultural secondary school and come from a family that is very closed minded

Well I went to school with him, an all boys school in a regional town in Munster. I wonder does the fact that he comes from a rural farming background have anything to do with it? Obviously not tarring all farmers or rural people with the same brush here

Nodin · 11-08-2013 10:33pm

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHHHH wrote: »

My mother is the most racist women i have ever met, she keeps her views under wraps and would only say stuff like that in front of family members, shes the kindest women underneath it all but that doesnt make it right either, shes a flat out racist but shes me ma

Ever tell her you were going out with another race for the laugh?

Arawn · 11-08-2013 10:33pm

whirlpool wrote: »

Racism is a fear, the same way any form of hatred is a fear. Unfortunately it's a fear that can end up causing hurt to others.

It depends on your personal definition of a "bad person."

hatred is not fear.

Annasopra · 11-08-2013 10:34pm

Arawn wrote: »

hatred is not fear.

But it can be based on fear

wexie · 11-08-2013 10:34pm

hmmmm....I've had some South African colleagues over the years and some of my good friends are South African.
The majority (all the ones I got along with) hadn't a racist bone in them, one of them had a best friend who was black and married his baby sister.

But bloody hell, some of the sayings they've come out with (most of them really funny but super non-pc). To me it was just a product of the environment they grew up in. Seems to be the same with a lot of the older generation Irish I've met.

Wouldn't necessarily say they're bad people, just uneducated and blinkered.

raah! · 11-08-2013 10:34pm

It makes them neither automatically bad nor automatically ignorant.

Henlars67 · 11-08-2013 10:35pm

Not always, no. I know a few people who make racist remarks but are in general nice people.

It's just pure ignorance really, and having no real experience of life outside of the area they grew up and still live in, thought hat certainly doesn't excuse it. It's ingrained in a lot of Irish people to have an intense and irrational dislike of people who are different to them. The same people would make remarks about for example, a man with long hair, or multiple piercings

Like I said, it's pure ignorance.

whirlpool · 11-08-2013 10:36pm

Arawn wrote: »

hatred is not fear.

Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.

hfallada · 11-08-2013 10:37pm

I think Irish people are ignorant rather racist. The surburb where I live doesnt have any diversity except for a good few Church of Ireland families and everyone sends their children to private catholic schools(all white Irish catholics) and then onto college courses which are mainly white Irish. Even though there is large number of non nationals you can still have no connect with them in daily life and have no idea of their customs or culture. I didnt have a single non-national friend until I moved school this year and most of my friends wouldnt have either. Meaning a comment may seem racist is just ignorant

whirlpool · 11-08-2013 10:37pm

mango salsa wrote: »

But it can be based on fear

Not even "based on." It is solely fear. It manifests itself in different ways, but it is fear.

cometogether · 11-08-2013 10:37pm

Clandestine wrote: »

Define what you mean by racism OP

Discrimination against someone based on race, ethnicity, nationality, creed etc. Is the definition not fairly straightforward?

Celly Smunt · 11-08-2013 10:39pm

An idiot,yes.
A bad person,no.

Clandestine · 11-08-2013 10:40pm

cometogether wrote: »

Discrimination against someone based on race, ethnicity, nationality, creed etc. Is the definition not fairly straightforward?

You wouldn't believe how many different ways people interpret the word

Based on that, well I know there are differences in races but I wouldn't discriminate based on these. I'd only bring these differences up if it was relevant in a discussion or whatever

timthumbni · 11-08-2013 10:41pm

cometogether wrote: »

Well I went to school with him, an all boys school in a regional town in Munster. I wonder does the fact that he comes from a rural farming background have anything to do with it? Obviously not tarring all farmers or rural people with the same brush here

Hello Alan Partridge.

Ace Attorney · 11-08-2013 10:41pm

Nodin wrote: »

Ever tell her you were going out with another race for the laugh?

I used to kinda joke that i go out and bring a coloured girl home at the weekend and she was just like yea right, Wish i did tho just to see my mams face at breakfast

Arawn · 11-08-2013 10:41pm

whirlpool wrote: »

Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.

No, It's not. All hatred is a form of fear is a stupid statement

dirtyden · 11-08-2013 10:41pm

cometogether wrote: »

Well I went to school with him, an all boys school in a regional town in Munster. I wonder does the fact that he comes from a rural farming background have anything to do with it? Obviously not tarring all farmers or rural people with the same brush here

Do you not see any juxtaposition between this and your original post?

Links234 · 11-08-2013 10:43pm

Arawn wrote: »

hatred is not fear.

ah, but fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred

Henlars67 · 11-08-2013 10:44pm

whirlpool wrote: »

Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.

No it isn't. There are a couple of people I really hate, hate so much that that if I heard they'd died I'd literally dance on their graves.

I'm not in any way afraid of them nor have I ever been.

Pretty Polly · 11-08-2013 10:44pm

''I'm not racist but I hate.........''

Thats such an Irish thing to say I think.

markomuscle · 11-08-2013 10:45pm

we must be very racist up north then , with our catholic and protestant schools and little interaction with the unionist/protestant poeple and the other way round

wazky · 11-08-2013 10:45pm

Pretty Polly wrote: »

''I'm not racist but I hate.........''

Thats such a Irish racist thing to say I think.

FYP.

Yellow121 · 11-08-2013 10:46pm

I'm always fearful but I don't get angry much. Am I a racist but a docile one?

ted1 · 11-08-2013 10:46pm

I think Irelamd has a issue with racism because the only coloured people we ae genreally exposed to is refugees the majority being economic refugees.
We experience few doctors, solicitors, engineers, etc

If we had more coloured professionals we wouldn't have an issue but the fact is our exposure is due to social welfare burdens( not a PC comment, but a statement based in enviormentsl observations )

wexie · 11-08-2013 10:47pm

ted1 wrote: »

I think Irelamd has a issue with racism because the only coloured people we ae genreally exposed to is refugees the majority being economic refugees.
We experience few doctors, solicitors, engineers, etc

If we had more coloured professionals we wouldn't have an issue but the fact is our exposure is due to social welfare burdens( not a PC comment, but a statement based in enviormentsl observations )

You haven't been in a hospital recently have you?

Itwasntme. · 11-08-2013 10:48pm

This is a hard one. As an African, I tend to automatically write off people I meet who I deem racist so I never really get the chance to find out if there is more to them than their nasty views. And here I am not talking about tasteless racist jokes that are not meant to harm but I mean people who are truly racist. On the other hand, I have friends and family who have some racist views without being 'bad' people per se, so I guess that being racist doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.

ted1 · 11-08-2013 10:48pm

wexie wrote: »

You haven't been in a hospital recently have you?

Fair enough , glad you found one word to highlight on black

Arawn · 11-08-2013 10:49pm

Links234 wrote: »

ah, but fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred

Lol this is pointless, if ye really think hatred is a result of fear in all cases then there is no point discussing it.

ted1 · 11-08-2013 10:50pm

Itwasntme. wrote: »

, so I guess that being racist doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person.

No but I do have great pity for them

cometogether · 11-08-2013 10:50pm

dirtyden wrote: »

Do you not see any juxtaposition between this and your original post?

I don't follow? What I meant is that people were mentioning background and upbringing, so I was merely wondering whether there might be any correlation between a rural upbringing, which many would see as socially conservative, and say a city upbringing (which I didn't have, btw), which may be more diverse. Obviously not suggesting that rural people and racism go hand in hand.

dirtyden · 11-08-2013 10:55pm

cometogether wrote: »

I don't follow? What I meant is that people were mentioning background and upbringing, so I was merely wondering whether there might be any correlation between a rural upbringing, which many would see as socially conservative, and say a city upbringing (which I didn't have, btw), which may be more diverse. Obviously not suggesting that rural people and racism go hand in hand.

Well it seemed like you indicated that your friend was most likely a racist because he was a culchie. I mean that is pretty much exactly what you said in your post but dressed it up as a rhetorical question. That kind of broad brush stroke stereotyping is not a million miles away from racism.

timthumbni · 11-08-2013 10:55pm

markomuscle wrote: »

we must be very racist up north then , with our catholic and protestant schools and little interaction with the unionist/protestant poeple and the other way round

Technically there are no protestant schools, only catholic and stAte schools. The sooner integrated schools in Northern Ireland becomes the norm even through extortion and blackmail the better.

Good thread actually re racism. I wld hv to say that being racist doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. But often it does.

Feathers · 11-08-2013 10:56pm

raah! wrote: »

It makes them neither automatically bad nor automatically ignorant.

I'd be inclined to say it does make them at least one or the other. Presume to start with we're leaving aside humour.

After that, if someone holds racist views because of a lack of exposure or education, I'd say they were ignorant.

If someone knows well that there is nothing inherently different about non-white/non-Irish people but choose to treat them worse, I would say they are 'bad people'.

Interested to hear how you have a third category…

green_bow · 11-08-2013 10:57pm

Clandestine wrote: »

Define what you mean by racism OP

yes , do , by some peoples definition , im racist against travellers for example , I despise them but I consider them 100% white irish so its complex

green_bow · 11-08-2013 10:59pm

Henlars67 wrote: »

No it isn't. There are a couple of people I really hate, hate so much that that if I heard they'd died I'd literally dance on their graves.

I'm not in any way afraid of them nor have I ever been.

ive only ever met on person who I truly hate and that is hard enough , takes a lot to hate someone

cometogether · 11-08-2013 11:01pm

dirtyden wrote: »

Well it seemed like you indicated that your friend was most likely a racist because he was a culchie. I mean that is pretty much exactly what you said in your post but dressed it up as a rhetorical question. That kind of broad brush stroke stereotyping is not a million miles away from racism.

I don't believe that his background makes him a racist though

Clandestine · 11-08-2013 11:01pm

I have a question for After hours

On average black people commit a much higher rate of crime than other races in north America, and scientific studies have shown that on average, regardless of environment, they score lower than other races by 15-20 points on IQ tests

Is it racist or otherwise immoral to point this out?

Henlars67 · 11-08-2013 11:03pm

green_bow wrote: »

yes , do , by some peoples definition , im racist against travellers for example , I despise them but I consider them 100% white irish so its complex

Despising travellers doesn't make you racist. As you say they're white Irish like the majority of people in Ireland.

Do you despise all travellers? I only despise the ones I've met or had some sort of brief contact with.

I won't tar them all with the one brush, but I've yet to come across one who wasn't a scumbag.

SeaDaily · 11-08-2013 11:03pm

whirlpool wrote: »

Yes, it is. That's precisely what it is.

No, no it's not.

Ten of Swords · 11-08-2013 11:03pm

Clandestine wrote: »

I have a question for After hours

On average black people commit a much higher rate of crime than other races in north America, and scientific studies have shown that on average, regardless of environment, they score lower than other races by 15-20 points on IQ tests

Is it racist or otherwise immoral to point this out?

My 2c... If it's a fact backed by science and studies then it's not racist but if you use it to promote an agenda or undermine people then yes it can be seen as racist.

Does racism automatically make someone a bad person?

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