Smacking yes or no

Crooked Jack · 19-06-2013 10:14PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Yes, defenseless. What can a child do against a physically strong adult? Behind closed doors it can be a scary environment if an adult takes it too far. You never know how a child will react to physical violence.

But this thread is not about "taking it too far." it's about smacking, not punishment beatings

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 10:19PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

Disagree, 100%.

Fair enough.

You can be firm with a child without resorting to striking out at them. They are small and easily controlled physically if needs be. They can be held and removed from a situation etc. Striking out at them in the process shows frustration bubbling over, imo.

Jiggers77 · 19-06-2013 10:23PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

But this thread is not about "taking it too far." it's about smacking, not punishment beatings

Yeah once again people have lost the run of themselves. Theres no debate when it comes to brutalising children. Its wrong, end off! What were talking about here is smacking and to quote the original thread using something like a belt to punish a child and is this something parents today would practice. It defo wont ever be happening in my house!

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 10:30PM

Jiggers77 wrote: »

Yeah once again people have lost the run of themselves. Theres no debate when it comes to brutalising children. Its wrong, end off! What were talking about here is smacking and to quote the original thread using something like a belt to punish a child and is this something parents today would practice. It defo wont ever be happening in my house!

I understand what is being said.We are not talking about a beating or even a strike that hurts. It does raise the point that some people find it acceptable that It is ok for a 9-14st + person to strike a 3st+ person. It doesn't matter if the strike does not hurt. It is putting the smaller person in a vulnerable position.

Odysseus · 19-06-2013 10:36PM

Jiggers77 wrote: »

Yeah once again people have lost the run of themselves. Theres no debate when it comes to brutalising children. Its wrong, end off! What were talking about here is smacking and to quote the original thread using something like a belt to punish a child and is this something parents today would practice. It defo wont ever be happening in my house!

The belt is still use to a small degree, I know of one case where electric flex was used, thankfully that cnut got jail. The belt is in as much as I know/experience considered abusive by most today. It is only a very small minority who see it as acceptable.

Against in my experience the belt was used in a very visious way when I was growing up, I know of a child who was stripped, tied up and then the belt was used, and it wasn't considered that extreme at that time. Of couse we all know what we consider it to be these days.

So to anwer your question in my experience/understanding etc the belt is only used by a very small amount these days, thankfully, whereas it was considered normal practice in day, nevermind what my own Dad got.

What a lot of people here are labelling as punishment would require me to ring the duty social worker in my work; whereas some telling me they smack their child occassionally as a punishment would not have me making that phone call.

Hope that makes some sense.

ToddyDoody · 19-06-2013 10:36PM

It depends what you smack them with. Doing it with your Willy is a big no ever since the church scandals.

humbert · 19-06-2013 10:39PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I understand what is being said.We are not talking about a beating or even a strike that hurts. It does raise the point that some people find it acceptable that It is ok for a 9-14st + person to strike a 3st+ person. It doesn't matter if the strike does not hurt. It is putting the smaller person in a vulnerable position.

The way you describe it makes it sound like it's wrong because it's not a fair fight.

Also, what do you mean by a vulnerable position? Vulnerable is one of those nasty buzz words but it's not like the spanking is happening in a crocodile pit.

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 10:43PM

humbert wrote: »

The way you describe it makes it sound like it's wrong because it's not a fair fight.

Also, what do you mean by a vulnerable position? Vulnerable is one of those nasty buzz words but it's not like the spanking is happening in a crocodile pit.

Vulnerable, as in they have no recourse but to submit. If this is how an adult wishes to demonstrate control over a child, it is wrong and lazy in my opinion.

Remove child from the situation and punish them accordingly without the hitting out undertone.

Juniorhurler · 19-06-2013 10:47PM

I have two kids. One is five next week and the other is three next august. To be honest I don't see much wrong with a little smack provided it doesn't hurt the child and does not scare or intimidate the child. Having said that, I don't smack my children as I think there are far better ways of punishing them. Withdrawal of treats, bold corner and so many others work far better with my children. So why would I smack when there are far better ways of punishing them.

humbert · 19-06-2013 10:49PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Vulnerable, as in they have no recourse but to submit.

That's not vulnerable though. Establishing dominance, perhaps.

(I'm sorry for being pedantic but I just think vulnerable is overused for largely emotive reasons)

imtdub · 19-06-2013 10:51PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I understand what is being said.We are not talking about a beating or even a strike that hurts. It does raise the point that some people find it acceptable that It is ok for a 9-14st + person to strike a 3st+ person. It doesn't matter if the strike does not hurt. It is putting the smaller person in a vulnerable position.

Jaysus we're not going to have a wrestling match there with our own kids :eek:. Original post was about smacking but people have taken this conversation to a totally different level and they are mixing studies about brutal punishments to simple smacking...

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 10:52PM

humbert wrote: »

That's not vulnerable though. Establishing dominance, perhaps.

(I'm sorry for being pedantic but I just think vulnerable is overused for largely emotive reasons)

I wasn't aware it was a buzz word.

You can establish dominance without striking a person. I agree whole heartily with the poster above. Withdrawal of privileges is a much better way to discipline a young person.

Don't get me wrong, all of the parents who don't think a little slap does any harm, most certainly do the same. just drop the smacking part.

dj jarvis · 19-06-2013 10:53PM

if you are doing your job right as a parent you should have no need to strike a child - bad and lazy parents lead to and cause smacking, not the child.
you have an arsenal of other options to discipline a child.

as for the old 80's excuse - i also got the odd smack , done me no harm , but i have never felt the need to smack my kids - because i remember how degrading it was.

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 10:55PM

imtdub wrote: »

Jaysus we're not going to have a wrestling match there with our own kids :eek:. Original post was about smacking but people have taken this conversation to a totally different level and they are mixing studies about brutal punishments to simple smacking...

I think you need to re-read my posts.

SusieBlue · 19-06-2013 11:05PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Vulnerable, as in they have no recourse but to submit. If this is how an adult wishes to demonstrate control over a child, it is wrong and lazy in my opinion.

Remove child from the situation and punish them accordingly without the hitting out undertone.

Amen to that.

I was slapped as a child, not often, but it still bothers me to this day. I remember more than one occasion where my father hit me and then scolded me after for crying because it was just a "tap", and it couldn't possibly have hurt.
This is why I get angry when I see parents saying "a light slap" etc..What may feel like a light slap to you, could be a forceful blow to a child.

It was humiliating and afterwards I would always be on my very best behaviour because I was afraid I'd get another slap. It was almost as though I felt as though I had to prove myself to get their attention and affection after getting a slap.

My parents are absolutely wonderful people but I feel they got this so, so wrong. I had a normal, happy childhood and as I said, this wasn't a regular occurrence. I was by no means abused at all. That said, it still doesn't sit right with me and I think my parents were wrong for doing it.

I don't agree with it, and thankfully my partner agrees because the day he lays a hand on our child is the day I walk out the door without coming back. I feel very strongly about it.

slarkin123 · 19-06-2013 11:08PM

I've got 3 kids that I don't slap. There are other ways to punish a child that works, no matter what the age. I've also seen how slapping doesn't work on some kids. My friend has a 5 and 6 year old who are slapped regularly and they turn it on her by screaming abuse and calling her every name under the sun. That only leads to more slapping and more verbal abuse from the kids. It's a vicious circle for her. I've a 12 hitting teen years with hormones running mad, a very opinionated 9 year old who's never wrong and a 3 year old who still hasn't copped on that you don't get your own way by throwing tantrums. We certainly have trying times in our house.

Jiggers77 · 19-06-2013 11:11PM

Odysseus wrote: »

The belt is still use to a small degree, I know of one case where electric flex was used, thankfully that cnut got jail. The belt is in as much as I know/experience considered abusive by most today. It is only a very small minority who see it as acceptable.

Against in my experience the belt was used in a very visious way when I was growing up, I know of a child who was stripped, tied up and then the belt was used, and it wasn't considered that extreme at that time. Of couse we all know what we consider it to be these days.

So to anwer your question in my experience/understanding etc the belt is only used by a very small amount these days, thankfully, whereas it was considered normal practice in day, nevermind what my own Dad got.

What a lot of people here are labelling as punishment would require me to ring the duty social worker in my work; whereas some telling me they smack their child occassionally as a punishment would not have me making that phone call.

Hope that makes some sense.

Thanks for clarifying that Odysseus! That makes some sense....I think

sunflower27 · 19-06-2013 11:13PM

slarkin123 wrote: »

I've got 3 kids that I don't slap. There are other ways to punish a child that works, no matter what the age. I've also seen how slapping doesn't work on some kids. My friend has a 5 and 6 year old who are slapped regularly and they turn it on her by screaming abuse and calling her every name under the sun. That only leads to more slapping and more verbal abuse from the kids. It's a vicious circle for her. I've a 12 hitting teen years with hormones running mad, a very opinionated 9 year old who's never wrong and a 3 year old who still hasn't copped on that you don't get your own way by throwing tantrums. We certainly have trying times in our house.

I think we can all rattle off examples where certain punishments worked for some kids and didn't for others. I think it really comes down to whether you think a smack is a suitable form of punishment or not.

I personally wouldn't smack a three-year-old for having a tantrum. That is simply adding fuel to the fire when they are already highly emotional. I am not a parent, but faced with a child having a tantrum, I'd be letting them scream it out. My mum did that to us and we quickly learnt a tantrum brought no results, just made us exhausted and had everyone staring at us

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 11:15PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

I think we can all rattle off examples where certain punishments worked for some kids and didn't for others. I think it really comes down to whether you think a smack is a suitable form of punishment or not.

I personally wouldn't smack a three-year-old for having a tantrum. That is simply adding fuel to the fire when they are already highly emotional. I am not a parent, but faced with a child having a tantrum, I'd be letting them scream it out. My mum did that to us and we quickly learnt a tantrum brought no results, just made us exhausted and had everyone staring at us

You have already established that you think smacking is ok.

In what circumstances, in your opinion, is it suitable?

Odysseus · 19-06-2013 11:19PM

This thread seems to have brought up various issues for people about their experiences during childhood. Now as part of my training I would have spent a long time in therapy discussing stuff like this. Now clearly I am not suggesting abyone here needs therapy; however, one thing I done about this topic was I had various discussions with my parents about some of the experiences I had around being punished.

Without sounding corny, it will be of benefit to discuss whatever personal issues you may have as an adult as a result of your experience of physical punishment as a child.

I have discussed a lot of stuff about my younger years with my parents, my Dad died over 4 years ago and tbh I gald I took the opportunity when I had it.

sunflower27 · 19-06-2013 11:20PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You have already established that you think smacking is ok.

In what circumstances, in your opinion, is it suitable?

Oooh, let's see. OK, a child running off near a busy road, a child not doing what they have been asked to do repeatedly, using a swear word they have been repeatedly told not to use. Hard to say, it would be depend on the circumstance, but yeah, definitely, a smack would be dished out under certain circumstances, and I have no problem with saying so. Am sure there are numerous other circumstances, but it would really depend on what the child did. It would be a judgement call depending on circumstances.

Jiggers77 · 19-06-2013 11:22PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You have already established that you think smacking is ok.

In what circumstances, in your opinion, is it suitable?

I remember thinking at the time of the London Riots seeing kids on the street causing such wanton vandalism and destruction that there was certainly a justification for giving a kid a good leathering. I think if it had have been one of my kids though I would have a hard time going through with it even though my own father would have had no problem at all giving me a hiding when I was young. Its just a different time nowadays with different notions on whats appropriate!

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 11:24PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

Oooh, let's see. OK, a child running off near a busy road, a child not doing what they have been asked to do repeatedly, using a swear word they have been repeatedly told not to use. Hard to say, it would be depend on the circumstance, but yeah, definitely, a smack would be dished out under certain circumstances, and I have no problem with saying so. Am sure there are numerous other circumstances, but it would really depend on what the child did. It would be a judgement call depending on circumstances.

All of the examples you listed have better solutions. How's about smacking is taken out of the list of options when a parent makes a parenting call. Maybe they should look at less reactionary ways to teach a child that they have done wrong.

It isn't the child, it is the adult who is wrong in every circumstance.

Jiggers77 · 19-06-2013 11:27PM

Odysseus wrote: »

This thread seems to have brought up various issues for people about their experiences during childhood. Now as part of my training I would have spent a long time in therapy discussing stuff like this. Now clearly I am not suggesting abyone here needs therapy; however, one thing I done about this topic was I had various discussions with my parents about some of the experiences I had around being punished.

Without sounding corny, it will be of benefit to discuss whatever personal issues you may have as an adult as a result of your experience of physical punishment as a child.

I have discussed a lot of stuff about my younger years with my parents, my Dad died over 4 years ago and tbh I gald I took the opportunity when I had it.

What was there response when you tackled them about it! Did they regret using physical punishment and I suppose the real question is looking back now did they feel there was a better way they could have done things. I suppose it all depends again on the severity of the punishment you received and when you received it!

sunflower27 · 19-06-2013 11:31PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

All of the examples you listed have better solutions. How's about smacking is taken out of the list of options when a parent makes a parenting call. Maybe they should look at less reactionary ways to teach a child that they have done wrong.

It isn't the child, it is the adult who is wrong in every circumstance.

I don't think people that smack their children use only that form of punishment all the time. We also got grounded for bad behaviour, but that was more when we were older.

I don't see a smack as abuse or harmful to a child. Not the sort of smacks I am talking about. If I did, I would not do it. Period.

darced · 19-06-2013 11:48PM

This post has been deleted.

Micky Dolenz · 19-06-2013 11:53PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

I don't think people that smack their children use only that form of punishment all the time. We also got grounded for bad behaviour, but that was more when we were older.

I don't see a smack as abuse or harmful to a child. Not the sort of smacks I am talking about. If I did, I would not do it. Period.

But why use it as a form of punishment at all?

How can you say it isn't harmful to a child? We have already had a few posters who said they were smacked irregularly by their parent in an otherwise loving environment but they still felt degraded and still carry if with them.

What would you say to them?

Odysseus · 19-06-2013 11:55PM

Jiggers77 wrote: »

What was there response when you tackled them about it! Did they regret using physical punishment and I suppose the real question is looking back now did they feel there was a better way they could have done things. I suppose it all depends again on the severity of the punishment you received and when you received it!

I would be careful about language in such incidences, even to say I tackeled them implies a certain way of approaching the topic. I would say I discussed various topics with them.

I certainly acted out in a severe manner as a child, so I can see the pain I brought them, and it was good for me to hear it, and vice versa of course.

Of course they wished the handled things better, all parent make mistakes. The are plently of other harmful ways of punishing a child that does not involve smacking or any of the more abusive behaviours. Which is why I would consider a person to be a good parent just because the don't smack as a punishment.

I was glad I had these discussions and they certainly helped the adult relationship I now had with them and still have with my mother.

K-9 · 20-06-2013 12:08AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But why use it as a form of punishment at all?

Anger, frustration, the terrible twos!

How can you say it isn't harmful to a child? We have already had a few posters who said they were smacked irregularly by their parent in an otherwise loving environment but they still felt degraded and still carry if with them.

What would you say to them?

Parents aren't perfect, we get it wrong too.

As somebody who smacked in frustration a few times, it's perfectly understandable but to me, pointless. There are better methods of punishment available, and it only makes you feel guilty in the end, because it is a lazy option.

Pass given for the cliche about putting a fork in electrical sockets!

jugger0 · 20-06-2013 01:44AM

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Amen to that.

I was slapped as a child, not often, but it still bothers me to this day. I remember more than one occasion where my father hit me and then scolded me after for crying because it was just a "tap", and it couldn't possibly have hurt.
This is why I get angry when I see parents saying "a light slap" etc..What may feel like a light slap to you, could be a forceful blow to a child.

It was humiliating and afterwards I would always be on my very best behaviour because I was afraid I'd get another slap. It was almost as though I felt as though I had to prove myself to get their attention and affection after getting a slap.

My parents are absolutely wonderful people but I feel they got this so, so wrong. I had a normal, happy childhood and as I said, this wasn't a regular occurrence. I was by no means abused at all. That said, it still doesn't sit right with me and I think my parents were wrong for doing it.

I don't agree with it, and thankfully my partner agrees because the day he lays a hand on our child is the day I walk out the door without coming back. I feel very strongly about it.

Sounds like a job well done to me.

Smacking yes or no

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