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Stallions

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Comments

  • #332
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    This is a good read on Coolmore

    http://thevaulthorseracing.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/coolmore-three-lads-with-a-vision/


  • #333
    rockycelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭rockycelt


    great thread lads, enjoyed reading that. especially starting back 18 months ago!
    looking forward to seeing See The Stars first crop later in the year.

    That list of ladies for Frankel is jaw dropping.
    I see Lightning Pearl (Pearl Bloodstock/Ger Lyons' Gr1 filly) is listed go go to him, interesting one for me.

    I think it's a massive fee to pay, and a massive gamble. There is only one guarantee in this, that there will be a regression back to the mean when it comes to his progeny. The hope for speculators can only be that he will benchmark a new mean, that is slightly better than the old one (if you get what I'm saying).

    If I could afford the £125k now, I could probably afford to hold off for a couple of years and spend £300k either on him (if he's proven) or Galileo.


  • #334
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Agree rockycelt, people jumping the gun because of who him as a racehorse. Whilst he was sure to be popular, I never thought he'd be that high. At 85 thousand euros I'd much rather Sea the Stars given his pedigree-slight concern about Cape Cross as a sire of sires but Invincible Spirit is a proper stallion and he's a Green Desert too


  • #335
    Brian2850
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭Brian2850


    Hi guys, just flicking back through this thread and was interested in the discussion about Flemsforth's nomination price and the movement that's in it. I've heard that this type of price movement and bargaining is par for the course when it comes to the NH game but can anybody tell me if the same goes on with flat stallions or whether the guys at the upper end of the market hold the line regarding price?


  • #336
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    How do you mean Brian, in terms of negotiating the price is it?


    Does anyone know where Excellent Art is gone, not listed for 2013 at Coolmore


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  • #337
    Brian2850
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭Brian2850


    Yeah Richie. Most guys will tell you that there is pretty big room for negotiation in NH sire fees and I was just wondering if that is the same with the top flat stallions? So, for example, Acclamation is 35k this year (just picking this as an example), is it 35k for all comers or would you do a better deal the better mare you had?

    Appreciate it's a bit of a hypothetical situation, but just trying to get a feel for the area. Thanks


  • #338
    carmanard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭carmanard


    RichieLawlessness wrote: »
    Does anyone know where Excellent Art is gone, not listed for 2013 at Coolmore

    Apprently he's gone to Poonwalla Stud in India, who also stood/stands former Ballydoyle inmate Ace and also Arazan, who I seem to recall has thrown up a couple of nice NH horses, I think one or two of his have shifted for reasonable money at the sales of late.... Same link that told me this also says that Dangerous Midge is standing in Chile and that Afleet Again is standing in Korea, two winners of races at the Breeders Cup standing a long way from home.... think the website is pedigreegoddess.com, Anne Peters Pedigree Consultant in Kentucky, interesting stuff on there....


  • #339
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Brian2850 wrote: »
    Yeah Richie. Most guys will tell you that there is pretty big room for negotiation in NH sire fees and I was just wondering if that is the same with the top flat stallions? So, for example, Acclamation is 35k this year (just picking this as an example), is it 35k for all comers or would you do a better deal the better mare you had?

    Appreciate it's a bit of a hypothetical situation, but just trying to get a feel for the area. Thanks

    There would be some on here that could answer better but pretty sure there is room for manouver especially if the stallion hasn't a full book...Not so sure of the upper end of the scale I remember reading on the Betfair forum someone claiming they knew someone who used Galileo and there were conditions the length of his arm, something like if it was a colt he'd give it up, not sure how true it is
    carmanard wrote: »
    Apprently he's gone to Poonwalla Stud in India, who also stood/stands former Ballydoyle inmate Ace and also Arazan, who I seem to recall has thrown up a couple of nice NH horses, I think one or two of his have shifted for reasonable money at the sales of late.... Same link that told me this also says that Dangerous Midge is standing in Chile and that Afleet Again is standing in Korea, two winners of races at the Breeders Cup standing a long way from home.... think the website is pedigreegoddess.com, Anne Peters Pedigree Consultant in Kentucky, interesting stuff on there....

    Didn't realise he'd gone there, Strategic Prince standing in Chile too this year, a bit surprised that Thewayyouare is still at Coolmore. Think you're confusing Arazan with Arakan, Arazanwas with John Oxx think Mastercraftsman beat him at odds on in the Phoenix as a 2 year old


  • #340
    carmanard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭carmanard


    RichieLawlessness wrote: »

    There would be some on here that could answer better but pretty sure there is room for manouver especially if the stallion hasn't a full book...Not so sure of the upper end of the scale I remember reading on the Betfair forum someone claiming they knew someone who used Galileo and there were conditions the length of his arm, something like if it was a colt he'd give it up, not sure how true it is



    Didn't realise he'd gone there, Strategic Prince standing in Chile too this year, a bit surprised that Thewayyouare is still at Coolmore. Think you're confusing Arazan with Arakan, Arazanwas with John Oxx think Mastercraftsman beat him at odds on in the Phoenix as a 2 year old

    Yep, bit of a brainfart there. Arazan is still a sore point with me, I put him in my ten to follow for his 3yr old season. And left out sea the stars. FML, that didn't end well... :)


  • #341
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Ballydoyle 2yo

    Colts
    Four Carat (24/3/11) - Montjeu ex Four Roses
    Half brother to Blandford Stakes Gr.2 winner Four Sins
    War Command (27/4/11) - War Front ex Wandering Star
    Half brother to Prix de Conde Gr.3 winner Naval Officer

    (23/2/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Moonstone
    Dam is Irish Oaks winner
    (15/3/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Queen Cleopatra
    Full brother to Navigation Stakes Listed winner Look At Me
    (1/4/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Virginia Waters
    Half brother to Celebration Stakes Listed winner Emperor Claudius
    (24/2/11) - Elusive Quality ex Christmas Kid
    Dam won Ashland Stakes Gr.1
    (12/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex American Queen
    Half brother to two winners, dam half sister to French Listed winner
    (11/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Beltisaal
    Half brother to Racing Post Trophy Gr.1 winner Kingsbarns
    (17/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Blue Cloud
    Half brother to Leopardstown 1000 Guineas Trial Gr.3 winner Empowering
    (16/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Blue Dream
    Dam half sister to Bordighera (dam of George Washington)
    (28/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Descant
    Dam is half sister to Gr.1 winner Zafonic and Gr.3 winner Zamindar
    (4/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex My Emma
    Half brother to Listed winner Moments Of Joy, dam won Yorkshire Oaks Gr.1
    (31/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Small Sacrifice
    From family of Moyglare bred Gr.1 winner Dress To Thrill
    (2/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Strawberry Roan
    Dam is twice Listed winner and full sister to Oaks winner Imagine
    (9/3/11) - Galileo ex Again
    Dam won Moyglare Stud Stakes and Irish 1000 Guineas
    (28/1/11) - Galileo ex Alexander Goldrun
    First foal, dam won 5 Gr.1
    (11/2/11) - Galileo ex Beauty Is Truth
    Half brother to triple Gr.3 winner Fire Lily
    (1/3/11) - Galileo ex Bywayofthestars
    Dam half sister to Irish Oaks winner Moonstone
    (8/2/11) - Galileo ex Chintz
    Dam won C.L. Weld Park Stakes Gr.3, from family of Arc winner Solemia
    (13/2/11) - Galileo ex Crystal Valkyrie
    Half brother to Gr.3 winners Above Average and Sent From Heaven
    (25/3/11) - Galileo ex Dancing Shoes
    Half brother to La Canada Stakes Gr.2 winner Striking Dancer
    (9/4/11) - Galileo ex Dietrich
    Half brother to Gr.3 winner Beauty Bright and dam is twice Gr.3 winners
    (19/2/11) - Galileo ex Elletelle
    First foal, dam won Royal Ascot race of Queen Mary Stakes Gr.2
    (27/3/11) - Galileo ex Guaranda
    Full brother to Fillies' Stakes Gr.3 winner Gravitation
    (7/2/11) - Galileo ex Ice Queen
    Dam won Noblesse Stakes Gr.3
    (12/4/11) - Galileo ex Khoruna
    Half brother to Triple Gr.1 winner Kazzia
    (4/1/11) - Galileo ex Looking Back
    Full brother to Triple Gr.1 winner Rip Van Winkle
    (25/3/11) - Galileo ex Mystical Lady
    Half brother to Leopardstown 2000 Guineas Trial Gr.3 winner Furner's Green
    (18/4/11) - Galileo ex Mythical Echo
    Dam full sister to San Francisco Mile Stakes Gr.2 winner Chinese Dragon
    (20/2/11) - Galileo ex One Moment In Time
    Dam full sister to dual Gr.1 winner Simply Perfect
    (8/4/11) - Galileo ex Ouija Board
    Dam won 7 Gr.1 including Oaks, Breeders Cup F&M Turf (x2)
    (3/4/11) - Galileo ex Queen Of France
    Dam is Listed placed
    (18/2/11) - Galileo ex Red Evie
    Full brother to C.L. Weld Park Stakes Gr.3 winner Magical Dream
    (10/1/11) - Galileo ex Simply Perfect
    Dam won Falmount Stakes and Meon Valley Fillies' Mile Stakes
    (8/1/11) - Galileo ex Squeak
    Dam twice US Gr.1 winner
    (18/4/11) -Galileo ex Trading Places
    Dam half sister to July Stakes Gr.3 winner Wharf
    (4/4/11) - Galileo ex Withorwithoutyou
    Half brother to Golden Jubilee Stakes Gr.1 winner Art Connoisseur
    (19/3/11) - Giant's Causeway ex Galleon Of Gold
    Half brother to US Gr.1 winner Game Face
    (7/2/11) - High Chaparral ex Inchmina
    Family of EP Taylor Stakes Gr.1 winner Miss Keller
    (17/3/11) - High Chaparral ex Night Teeny
    Half brother to Oaks d'Italia Gr.2 winner Night Of Magic
    (12/2/11) - High Chaparral ex Rainbow Queen
    Dam half sister to Gr.3 winner Stella Blue
    (3/5/11) - Holy Roman Emperor ex Song Of The Sea
    Full brother to Jersey Stakes Gr.3 winner Ishvana
    (21/2/11) - Holy Roman Emperor ex Tyranny
    Half brother to Gr.1 winner Zoffany
    (10/2/11) - Henrythenavigator ex Good Time Sally
    Granddam is Gr.3 winner, family of Ivyanna who won Italy Oaks Gr.1
    (26/2/11) - Henrythenavigator ex Peeping Fawn
    Dam won 4 Gr.1
    (4/5/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Moore's Melody
    Half brother to Solario Stakes Gr.3 winner Talwar
    (26/4/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Plume Rouge
    Dam won Fairy Bridge Stakes Listed
    (17/2/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Weekend Fling
    Half brother to Gr.3 placed Royal Empress
    (6/3/11) - Montjeu ex Belesta
    First foal, dam half sister to Gr.3 winner In Clover
    (20/3/11) - Montjeu ex Dance Parade
    Dam won Gr.3 twice
    (24/3/11) - Montjeu ex Dibenoise
    Full brother to Gr.1 winners Recital and Corre Caminos
    (18/2/11) - Montjeu ex Helsinki
    Half brother to Gr.1 winner Shamardal
    (26/2/11) - Montjeu ex Honorlina
    Dam full sister to twice Gr.1 winner Vahorimix
    (24/2/11) - Montjeu ex Hula Angel
    Dam won Irish 1000 Guineas
    (4/4/11) - Montjeu ex Jewel In The Sand
    Dam won Cherry Hinton Stakes Gr.2
    (21/4/11) - Montjeu ex Lasting Chance
    Half brother to Hong Kong Derby & Hong Kong Gold Cup winner Collection
    (8/4/11) - Montjeu ex Love Me True
    Half Brother to 5 times Gr.1 winner Duke Of Marmalade
    (24/3/11) - Montjeu ex Lucina
    Dam half sister to triple Gr.3 winner Blue Monday
    (17/2/11) - Montjeu ex Marquesa
    Dam half sister to Gr.3 Beauty Bright
    (26/2/11) - Montjeu ex Metaphor
    Dam half sister to Craven Stakes Gr.3 winner King Of Happiness
    (28/4/11) -Montjeu ex Mixed Blessing
    Dam won Princess Margaret Stakes Gr.3
    (10/4/11) - Oasis Dream ex Attraction
    Dam is unbeaten 2yo and won Irish 1000 Guineas and 1000 Guineas
    (8/4/11) - Oasis Dream ex Galaxy Highflyer
    Dam half sister to Gr.1 winners Kayf Tara, Opera House and Zee Zee Top
    (27/4/11) - Oasis Dream ex I'm In Love
    Half brother to US Gr.3 winner More Than Love
    (7/2/11) - Oasis Dream ex Lesson In Humility
    Dam won Ballyogen Stakes Gr.3
    (6/5/11) - Oasis Dream ex Littlefeather
    Dam half sister to 4 times Gr.1 winner Marling
    (10/3/11) - Oasis Dream ex Masskana
    Half brother to Hong Kong Cup Gr.1 winner Eagle Mountain
    (25/2/11) - War Front ex Dancing Trieste
    From family of Argentina Gr.1 winners La Galerie and Gouache
    (25/2/11) - War Front ex Golden Toast
    From family of Gr.3 winner Desert Quiet
    (20/5/11) - War Front ex Rule One
    Dam half sister to US Gr.3 winner Lady Digby
    (2/5/11) - Yeats ex Bleu Ciel Et Blanc
    Half brother to 4 time Gr.1 jump winner Binocular


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  • #342
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Fillies
    Joya (16/4/11) - Galileo ex Secrete Marina
    Half sister to Gr.2 and triple Gr.3 winner Joanna

    (21/4/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Quarter Moon
    Dam won Moyglare Stud Stakes
    (22/1/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Delphinium
    Half sister to Gallinule Stakes Gr.3 winner Hebridean
    (28/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Lady Icarus
    Half sister to Gr.3 winner Furner's Green
    (5/5/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Leonia
    From family of Germany Gr.1 winners Lando and Laroche
    (5/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Sea Picture
    Dam half sister to Yorkshire Oaks Gr.1 winner Hellenic
    (7/5/11) - Galileo ex Anna Karenina
    Full sister to Beresford Stakes Gr.2 winner Battle Of Marengo
    (17/3/11) - Galileo ex Bonnie Byerly
    Half sister to US Gr.2 winner Diabolical
    (28/4/11) - Galileo ex Doula
    Full sister to twice Gr.3 placed Amazing Beauty
    (29/3/11) - Galileo ex Halfway To Heaven
    Full ister to Gr.2 placed Flying The Flag, dam is triple Gr.1 winner
    (4/2/11) - Galileo ex Halland Park Lass
    Full sister to Gr.2 winner Up and half sister to twice Gr.1 winner Dutch Art
    (2/2/11) - Galileo ex Jude
    Half sister to Gr.1 winners Quarter Moon and Yesterday
    (20/3/11) - Galileo ex Massarra
    Half Sister to Gr.1 winner Nayarra
    (18/1/11) - Galileo ex Rumplestiltskin
    Dam won Moyglare Stud Stakes
    (1/5/11) - Galileo ex Secret Garden
    Full sister to Irish 2000 Guineas winner Roderic O'Connor
    (1/5/11) - Galileo ex Shadow Song
    Full sister to Gr.1 winner Together and half sister to Gr.1 winner Jan Vermeer
    (9/1/11) - Galileo ex You'resothrilling
    Dam won Cherry Hinton Stakes Gr.2 also full sister to Giant's Causeway
    (14/3/11) - Giant's Causeway ex Imagine
    Half sister to Gr.1 winner Horatio Nelson, Full to Gr.2 winner Viscount Nelson
    (14/3/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Sogno Verde
    Half sister to Railway Stakes Gr.2 winner Lilbourne Lad
    (24/1/11) - Montjeu ex Cherry Hinton
    Full sister to Rockfel Stakes Gr.2 winner Wading
    (6/5/11) - Oasis Dream ex All Too Beautiful
    Half sister to Cheshire Oaks Listed winner Wonder Of Wonders
    (29/1/11) - Oasis Dream ex Slink
    Dam full sister to Gr.1 winner Sulk and half sister to Gr.1 winner Eagle Mountain
    (19/3/11) - Smart Strike ex Silk And Scarlet
    Half sister to Gr.1 winners Eishin Apollon and Master Of Hounds


  • #343
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Can't wait for some of the Fastnet Rocks

    Some nice ones there, Moonstone comes from a really nice family, Danehill Dancer colt out of Queen Alexandra she's a full sister to Henrythenavigator. All Too Beautiful and Cherry Hinton's fillies should be nice, both of them are daughters of Urban Sea, All too Beautiful a full sister to Galileo, Cherry Hinton by Green Desert


  • #344
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭andyman


    Some people might call me mad, but I only realised that New Approach is the only offspring of Galileo to win the Epsom Derby. Never realised that before..


  • #345
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Treasure Beach was the closest apart from him, Montjeu is the Derby sire


  • #346
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭andyman


    Aye I know that re: Montjeu, just naturally thought Galileo had more than one winner.


  • #347
    the fella who
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭the fella who


    what does anyone make of tagula?


  • #348
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    wouldn't go near


  • #349
    the fella who
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭the fella who


    RichieLawlessness wrote: »
    wouldn't go near

    Why so??

    Sire of sires and outcross for northern dancer??


  • #350
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Is Canford Cliffs not his only son at stud, his only group one winner, Tax Free a group 2 winner very very few black type runners even for a low stallion


  • #351
    the fella who
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭the fella who


    RichieLawlessness wrote: »
    Is Canford Cliffs not his only son at stud, his only group one winner, Tax Free a group 2 winner very very few black type runners even for a low stallion

    hhmm yeah guess you have a point, but im presuming he wouldnt have been getting the top mares over the years.
    Whats your opinion on thewayyouare and vale of york?
    Covering key of luck mare soon and thats my budget bout 2000 euro.
    If I get filly keep for racing otherwise go to sales with colt all going well


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  • #352
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Haha I was going to suggest Thewayyouare as an alternative. The poor man's henrythenavigator, are you looking to sell or keep, some of thewayyouares are selling well

    Edit just saw the last line.


  • #353
    the fella who
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭the fella who


    has he got a 2yo crop in usa??


  • #354
    faoile@n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭faoile@n


    Would you not take a punt on Alfred Noble or Requinto?

    Presumably you'd get a deal I'm either.


  • #355
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Would definitely use Alfred Nobel, can see him getting some nice early two year olds but his pedigree suggests they may well progress given he's from the family of New Approach.

    Not sure I'd be a big fan of Requinto. If you were willing to stretch your budget I'm a big fan of Big Bad Bob


  • #356
    Sea The Starz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 145 ✭✭Sea The Starz


    I see first 2yo race will be coming shortly. What are peoples fancy for champ first season sire. Obviously STS gonna be seriously interesting, imho I'd consider him a flop if he doesn't get at least 5 classic prospects considering the mares he's gotten, basically the who's who of the stud book. Bushrangers sold well in the ring and being a rattling good 2yo he should be fighting for top honours. Dandy Man I think will be another that will get some speedy types. A stallion I think could be value next year would be Champs Elysses. I cant see him getting many 2yos and i think his fee will go down to next to nothing next yr and he'd be worth going to on pedigree alone, although probably not the best if your looking to sell. Thoughts?


  • #357
    jayroyal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭jayroyal


    I like Dandy Man myself but can't wait to see Intense Focus progeny get under way. They both have a few entries in the 3 two year old races this weekend. Bolger will surely have his best Intense Focus this Sunday as he did similar with Teofilo and New Approach colts for the past two years.


  • #358
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    the fella who wrote: »
    what does anyone make of tagula?

    Tagula is respected by buyers at that level (about 2k) for the cover.Trainers will buy them if you have a nice type. He has a rep for producing race horses. Others in his bracket are Captain Rio (recommended) and Alhaarth. Tag and Alhaarth are old boys so there may be fertility issues. These 3 have all produced grp 1 winners. Only a small % have sired a grp 1 winner so if the mare is starting out and you don't want to go broke finding out if she's any good one of the above would fit the bill.

    If she has a flashy pedigree you could use a first season sire and you could get a away with it. If you go with one (punt) that has it's first crop to race this year or next and they bomb (as most do) than your foal will bomb too. For a new mare this is the worst option and the cover will cost you more. A good way of judging whether a stallion is a good option is to ask yourself 'compared to other mares that this stallion has covered how desireable would my foal be in comparision to his other foals'.

    If you decide to punt Vale of York covered a decent bunch and he is the price range.


  • #359
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Hunthe I know a small minority get group 1 winners but for a horse who was standing at 7 or 8k wouldn't his return still be considered quite poor. At a cheaper fee than him I'd be interested in Arakan, am I right in thinking he covered the biggest book in the UK and Ireland last year? Pity Peintre Celebre is quite expensive at 10k


  • #360
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    First Mastercraftsman colt entered at the Curragh on Sunday for A P O'Brien. Intense Focus has a debutante also at the 5 day stage


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  • #361
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    She'd need to be good to beat colts so early on, I'm looking forward to seeing the Fastnet Rock if he stays in, not sure if they are quite dependant on good ground though


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