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Stallions

UrbanSea

Can anyone seriously compete with Coolmore? Who are yer favourite stallions?

Galileo has owned the big races world wide this year. Europe,S.Africa and a dual grade 1 success last week in the States,who can even get near half of Coolmore's stallions.

I'd rate them
1.Galileo
2.Montjeu
3.Danehill Dancer

Holy Roman Emperor has really impressed me and you can bet his stud fee will be more than 10 grand next year. Even Strategic Prince is a first year sire who banged out a group 1 winner at a fee of 5,000.

Teofilo has really caught my eye aswell this year.

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UrbanSea

This is a good read on Coolmore

http://thevaulthorseracing.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/coolmore-three-lads-with-a-vision/

rockycelt

great thread lads, enjoyed reading that. especially starting back 18 months ago!
looking forward to seeing See The Stars first crop later in the year.

That list of ladies for Frankel is jaw dropping.
I see Lightning Pearl (Pearl Bloodstock/Ger Lyons' Gr1 filly) is listed go go to him, interesting one for me.

I think it's a massive fee to pay, and a massive gamble. There is only one guarantee in this, that there will be a regression back to the mean when it comes to his progeny. The hope for speculators can only be that he will benchmark a new mean, that is slightly better than the old one (if you get what I'm saying).

If I could afford the £125k now, I could probably afford to hold off for a couple of years and spend £300k either on him (if he's proven) or Galileo.

UrbanSea

Agree rockycelt, people jumping the gun because of who him as a racehorse. Whilst he was sure to be popular, I never thought he'd be that high. At 85 thousand euros I'd much rather Sea the Stars given his pedigree-slight concern about Cape Cross as a sire of sires but Invincible Spirit is a proper stallion and he's a Green Desert too

Brian2850

Hi guys, just flicking back through this thread and was interested in the discussion about Flemsforth's nomination price and the movement that's in it. I've heard that this type of price movement and bargaining is par for the course when it comes to the NH game but can anybody tell me if the same goes on with flat stallions or whether the guys at the upper end of the market hold the line regarding price?

UrbanSea

How do you mean Brian, in terms of negotiating the price is it?

Does anyone know where Excellent Art is gone, not listed for 2013 at Coolmore

Brian2850

Yeah Richie. Most guys will tell you that there is pretty big room for negotiation in NH sire fees and I was just wondering if that is the same with the top flat stallions? So, for example, Acclamation is 35k this year (just picking this as an example), is it 35k for all comers or would you do a better deal the better mare you had?

Appreciate it's a bit of a hypothetical situation, but just trying to get a feel for the area. Thanks

carmanard

RichieLawlessness wrote: »

Does anyone know where Excellent Art is gone, not listed for 2013 at Coolmore

Apprently he's gone to Poonwalla Stud in India, who also stood/stands former Ballydoyle inmate Ace and also Arazan, who I seem to recall has thrown up a couple of nice NH horses, I think one or two of his have shifted for reasonable money at the sales of late.... Same link that told me this also says that Dangerous Midge is standing in Chile and that Afleet Again is standing in Korea, two winners of races at the Breeders Cup standing a long way from home.... think the website is pedigreegoddess.com, Anne Peters Pedigree Consultant in Kentucky, interesting stuff on there....

UrbanSea

Brian2850 wrote: »

Yeah Richie. Most guys will tell you that there is pretty big room for negotiation in NH sire fees and I was just wondering if that is the same with the top flat stallions? So, for example, Acclamation is 35k this year (just picking this as an example), is it 35k for all comers or would you do a better deal the better mare you had?

Appreciate it's a bit of a hypothetical situation, but just trying to get a feel for the area. Thanks

There would be some on here that could answer better but pretty sure there is room for manouver especially if the stallion hasn't a full book...Not so sure of the upper end of the scale I remember reading on the Betfair forum someone claiming they knew someone who used Galileo and there were conditions the length of his arm, something like if it was a colt he'd give it up, not sure how true it is

carmanard wrote: »

Apprently he's gone to Poonwalla Stud in India, who also stood/stands former Ballydoyle inmate Ace and also Arazan, who I seem to recall has thrown up a couple of nice NH horses, I think one or two of his have shifted for reasonable money at the sales of late.... Same link that told me this also says that Dangerous Midge is standing in Chile and that Afleet Again is standing in Korea, two winners of races at the Breeders Cup standing a long way from home.... think the website is pedigreegoddess.com, Anne Peters Pedigree Consultant in Kentucky, interesting stuff on there....

Didn't realise he'd gone there, Strategic Prince standing in Chile too this year, a bit surprised that Thewayyouare is still at Coolmore. Think you're confusing Arazan with Arakan, Arazanwas with John Oxx think Mastercraftsman beat him at odds on in the Phoenix as a 2 year old

carmanard

RichieLawlessness wrote: »

There would be some on here that could answer better but pretty sure there is room for manouver especially if the stallion hasn't a full book...Not so sure of the upper end of the scale I remember reading on the Betfair forum someone claiming they knew someone who used Galileo and there were conditions the length of his arm, something like if it was a colt he'd give it up, not sure how true it is

Didn't realise he'd gone there, Strategic Prince standing in Chile too this year, a bit surprised that Thewayyouare is still at Coolmore. Think you're confusing Arazan with Arakan, Arazanwas with John Oxx think Mastercraftsman beat him at odds on in the Phoenix as a 2 year old

Yep, bit of a brainfart there. Arazan is still a sore point with me, I put him in my ten to follow for his 3yr old season. And left out sea the stars. FML, that didn't end well...

UrbanSea

Ballydoyle 2yo

Colts
Four Carat (24/3/11) - Montjeu ex Four Roses
Half brother to Blandford Stakes Gr.2 winner Four Sins
War Command (27/4/11) - War Front ex Wandering Star
Half brother to Prix de Conde Gr.3 winner Naval Officer

(23/2/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Moonstone
Dam is Irish Oaks winner
(15/3/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Queen Cleopatra
Full brother to Navigation Stakes Listed winner Look At Me
(1/4/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Virginia Waters
Half brother to Celebration Stakes Listed winner Emperor Claudius
(24/2/11) - Elusive Quality ex Christmas Kid
Dam won Ashland Stakes Gr.1
(12/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex American Queen
Half brother to two winners, dam half sister to French Listed winner
(11/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Beltisaal
Half brother to Racing Post Trophy Gr.1 winner Kingsbarns
(17/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Blue Cloud
Half brother to Leopardstown 1000 Guineas Trial Gr.3 winner Empowering
(16/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Blue Dream
Dam half sister to Bordighera (dam of George Washington)
(28/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Descant
Dam is half sister to Gr.1 winner Zafonic and Gr.3 winner Zamindar
(4/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex My Emma
Half brother to Listed winner Moments Of Joy, dam won Yorkshire Oaks Gr.1
(31/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Small Sacrifice
From family of Moyglare bred Gr.1 winner Dress To Thrill
(2/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Strawberry Roan
Dam is twice Listed winner and full sister to Oaks winner Imagine
(9/3/11) - Galileo ex Again
Dam won Moyglare Stud Stakes and Irish 1000 Guineas
(28/1/11) - Galileo ex Alexander Goldrun
First foal, dam won 5 Gr.1
(11/2/11) - Galileo ex Beauty Is Truth
Half brother to triple Gr.3 winner Fire Lily
(1/3/11) - Galileo ex Bywayofthestars
Dam half sister to Irish Oaks winner Moonstone
(8/2/11) - Galileo ex Chintz
Dam won C.L. Weld Park Stakes Gr.3, from family of Arc winner Solemia
(13/2/11) - Galileo ex Crystal Valkyrie
Half brother to Gr.3 winners Above Average and Sent From Heaven
(25/3/11) - Galileo ex Dancing Shoes
Half brother to La Canada Stakes Gr.2 winner Striking Dancer
(9/4/11) - Galileo ex Dietrich
Half brother to Gr.3 winner Beauty Bright and dam is twice Gr.3 winners
(19/2/11) - Galileo ex Elletelle
First foal, dam won Royal Ascot race of Queen Mary Stakes Gr.2
(27/3/11) - Galileo ex Guaranda
Full brother to Fillies' Stakes Gr.3 winner Gravitation
(7/2/11) - Galileo ex Ice Queen
Dam won Noblesse Stakes Gr.3
(12/4/11) - Galileo ex Khoruna
Half brother to Triple Gr.1 winner Kazzia
(4/1/11) - Galileo ex Looking Back
Full brother to Triple Gr.1 winner Rip Van Winkle
(25/3/11) - Galileo ex Mystical Lady
Half brother to Leopardstown 2000 Guineas Trial Gr.3 winner Furner's Green
(18/4/11) - Galileo ex Mythical Echo
Dam full sister to San Francisco Mile Stakes Gr.2 winner Chinese Dragon
(20/2/11) - Galileo ex One Moment In Time
Dam full sister to dual Gr.1 winner Simply Perfect
(8/4/11) - Galileo ex Ouija Board
Dam won 7 Gr.1 including Oaks, Breeders Cup F&M Turf (x2)
(3/4/11) - Galileo ex Queen Of France
Dam is Listed placed
(18/2/11) - Galileo ex Red Evie
Full brother to C.L. Weld Park Stakes Gr.3 winner Magical Dream
(10/1/11) - Galileo ex Simply Perfect
Dam won Falmount Stakes and Meon Valley Fillies' Mile Stakes
(8/1/11) - Galileo ex Squeak
Dam twice US Gr.1 winner
(18/4/11) -Galileo ex Trading Places
Dam half sister to July Stakes Gr.3 winner Wharf
(4/4/11) - Galileo ex Withorwithoutyou
Half brother to Golden Jubilee Stakes Gr.1 winner Art Connoisseur
(19/3/11) - Giant's Causeway ex Galleon Of Gold
Half brother to US Gr.1 winner Game Face
(7/2/11) - High Chaparral ex Inchmina
Family of EP Taylor Stakes Gr.1 winner Miss Keller
(17/3/11) - High Chaparral ex Night Teeny
Half brother to Oaks d'Italia Gr.2 winner Night Of Magic
(12/2/11) - High Chaparral ex Rainbow Queen
Dam half sister to Gr.3 winner Stella Blue
(3/5/11) - Holy Roman Emperor ex Song Of The Sea
Full brother to Jersey Stakes Gr.3 winner Ishvana
(21/2/11) - Holy Roman Emperor ex Tyranny
Half brother to Gr.1 winner Zoffany
(10/2/11) - Henrythenavigator ex Good Time Sally
Granddam is Gr.3 winner, family of Ivyanna who won Italy Oaks Gr.1
(26/2/11) - Henrythenavigator ex Peeping Fawn
Dam won 4 Gr.1
(4/5/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Moore's Melody
Half brother to Solario Stakes Gr.3 winner Talwar
(26/4/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Plume Rouge
Dam won Fairy Bridge Stakes Listed
(17/2/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Weekend Fling
Half brother to Gr.3 placed Royal Empress
(6/3/11) - Montjeu ex Belesta
First foal, dam half sister to Gr.3 winner In Clover
(20/3/11) - Montjeu ex Dance Parade
Dam won Gr.3 twice
(24/3/11) - Montjeu ex Dibenoise
Full brother to Gr.1 winners Recital and Corre Caminos
(18/2/11) - Montjeu ex Helsinki
Half brother to Gr.1 winner Shamardal
(26/2/11) - Montjeu ex Honorlina
Dam full sister to twice Gr.1 winner Vahorimix
(24/2/11) - Montjeu ex Hula Angel
Dam won Irish 1000 Guineas
(4/4/11) - Montjeu ex Jewel In The Sand
Dam won Cherry Hinton Stakes Gr.2
(21/4/11) - Montjeu ex Lasting Chance
Half brother to Hong Kong Derby & Hong Kong Gold Cup winner Collection
(8/4/11) - Montjeu ex Love Me True
Half Brother to 5 times Gr.1 winner Duke Of Marmalade
(24/3/11) - Montjeu ex Lucina
Dam half sister to triple Gr.3 winner Blue Monday
(17/2/11) - Montjeu ex Marquesa
Dam half sister to Gr.3 Beauty Bright
(26/2/11) - Montjeu ex Metaphor
Dam half sister to Craven Stakes Gr.3 winner King Of Happiness
(28/4/11) -Montjeu ex Mixed Blessing
Dam won Princess Margaret Stakes Gr.3
(10/4/11) - Oasis Dream ex Attraction
Dam is unbeaten 2yo and won Irish 1000 Guineas and 1000 Guineas
(8/4/11) - Oasis Dream ex Galaxy Highflyer
Dam half sister to Gr.1 winners Kayf Tara, Opera House and Zee Zee Top
(27/4/11) - Oasis Dream ex I'm In Love
Half brother to US Gr.3 winner More Than Love
(7/2/11) - Oasis Dream ex Lesson In Humility
Dam won Ballyogen Stakes Gr.3
(6/5/11) - Oasis Dream ex Littlefeather
Dam half sister to 4 times Gr.1 winner Marling
(10/3/11) - Oasis Dream ex Masskana
Half brother to Hong Kong Cup Gr.1 winner Eagle Mountain
(25/2/11) - War Front ex Dancing Trieste
From family of Argentina Gr.1 winners La Galerie and Gouache
(25/2/11) - War Front ex Golden Toast
From family of Gr.3 winner Desert Quiet
(20/5/11) - War Front ex Rule One
Dam half sister to US Gr.3 winner Lady Digby
(2/5/11) - Yeats ex Bleu Ciel Et Blanc
Half brother to 4 time Gr.1 jump winner Binocular

UrbanSea

Fillies
Joya (16/4/11) - Galileo ex Secrete Marina
Half sister to Gr.2 and triple Gr.3 winner Joanna

(21/4/11) - Danehill Dancer ex Quarter Moon
Dam won Moyglare Stud Stakes
(22/1/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Delphinium
Half sister to Gallinule Stakes Gr.3 winner Hebridean
(28/3/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Lady Icarus
Half sister to Gr.3 winner Furner's Green
(5/5/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Leonia
From family of Germany Gr.1 winners Lando and Laroche
(5/4/11) - Fastnet Rock ex Sea Picture
Dam half sister to Yorkshire Oaks Gr.1 winner Hellenic
(7/5/11) - Galileo ex Anna Karenina
Full sister to Beresford Stakes Gr.2 winner Battle Of Marengo
(17/3/11) - Galileo ex Bonnie Byerly
Half sister to US Gr.2 winner Diabolical
(28/4/11) - Galileo ex Doula
Full sister to twice Gr.3 placed Amazing Beauty
(29/3/11) - Galileo ex Halfway To Heaven
Full ister to Gr.2 placed Flying The Flag, dam is triple Gr.1 winner
(4/2/11) - Galileo ex Halland Park Lass
Full sister to Gr.2 winner Up and half sister to twice Gr.1 winner Dutch Art
(2/2/11) - Galileo ex Jude
Half sister to Gr.1 winners Quarter Moon and Yesterday
(20/3/11) - Galileo ex Massarra
Half Sister to Gr.1 winner Nayarra
(18/1/11) - Galileo ex Rumplestiltskin
Dam won Moyglare Stud Stakes
(1/5/11) - Galileo ex Secret Garden
Full sister to Irish 2000 Guineas winner Roderic O'Connor
(1/5/11) - Galileo ex Shadow Song
Full sister to Gr.1 winner Together and half sister to Gr.1 winner Jan Vermeer
(9/1/11) - Galileo ex You'resothrilling
Dam won Cherry Hinton Stakes Gr.2 also full sister to Giant's Causeway
(14/3/11) - Giant's Causeway ex Imagine
Half sister to Gr.1 winner Horatio Nelson, Full to Gr.2 winner Viscount Nelson
(14/3/11) - Mastercraftsman ex Sogno Verde
Half sister to Railway Stakes Gr.2 winner Lilbourne Lad
(24/1/11) - Montjeu ex Cherry Hinton
Full sister to Rockfel Stakes Gr.2 winner Wading
(6/5/11) - Oasis Dream ex All Too Beautiful
Half sister to Cheshire Oaks Listed winner Wonder Of Wonders
(29/1/11) - Oasis Dream ex Slink
Dam full sister to Gr.1 winner Sulk and half sister to Gr.1 winner Eagle Mountain
(19/3/11) - Smart Strike ex Silk And Scarlet
Half sister to Gr.1 winners Eishin Apollon and Master Of Hounds

UrbanSea

Can't wait for some of the Fastnet Rocks

Some nice ones there, Moonstone comes from a really nice family, Danehill Dancer colt out of Queen Alexandra she's a full sister to Henrythenavigator. All Too Beautiful and Cherry Hinton's fillies should be nice, both of them are daughters of Urban Sea, All too Beautiful a full sister to Galileo, Cherry Hinton by Green Desert

andyman

Some people might call me mad, but I only realised that New Approach is the only offspring of Galileo to win the Epsom Derby. Never realised that before..

UrbanSea

Treasure Beach was the closest apart from him, Montjeu is the Derby sire

andyman

Aye I know that re: Montjeu, just naturally thought Galileo had more than one winner.

the fella who

what does anyone make of tagula?

UrbanSea

wouldn't go near

the fella who

RichieLawlessness wrote: »

wouldn't go near

Why so??

Sire of sires and outcross for northern dancer??

UrbanSea

Is Canford Cliffs not his only son at stud, his only group one winner, Tax Free a group 2 winner very very few black type runners even for a low stallion

the fella who

RichieLawlessness wrote: »

Is Canford Cliffs not his only son at stud, his only group one winner, Tax Free a group 2 winner very very few black type runners even for a low stallion

hhmm yeah guess you have a point, but im presuming he wouldnt have been getting the top mares over the years.
Whats your opinion on thewayyouare and vale of york?
Covering key of luck mare soon and thats my budget bout 2000 euro.
If I get filly keep for racing otherwise go to sales with colt all going well

UrbanSea

Haha I was going to suggest Thewayyouare as an alternative. The poor man's henrythenavigator, are you looking to sell or keep, some of thewayyouares are selling well

Edit just saw the last line.

the fella who

has he got a 2yo crop in usa??

faoile@n

Would you not take a punt on Alfred Noble or Requinto?

Presumably you'd get a deal I'm either.

UrbanSea

Would definitely use Alfred Nobel, can see him getting some nice early two year olds but his pedigree suggests they may well progress given he's from the family of New Approach.

Not sure I'd be a big fan of Requinto. If you were willing to stretch your budget I'm a big fan of Big Bad Bob

Sea The Starz

I see first 2yo race will be coming shortly. What are peoples fancy for champ first season sire. Obviously STS gonna be seriously interesting, imho I'd consider him a flop if he doesn't get at least 5 classic prospects considering the mares he's gotten, basically the who's who of the stud book. Bushrangers sold well in the ring and being a rattling good 2yo he should be fighting for top honours. Dandy Man I think will be another that will get some speedy types. A stallion I think could be value next year would be Champs Elysses. I cant see him getting many 2yos and i think his fee will go down to next to nothing next yr and he'd be worth going to on pedigree alone, although probably not the best if your looking to sell. Thoughts?

jayroyal

I like Dandy Man myself but can't wait to see Intense Focus progeny get under way. They both have a few entries in the 3 two year old races this weekend. Bolger will surely have his best Intense Focus this Sunday as he did similar with Teofilo and New Approach colts for the past two years.

Huntthe

the fella who wrote: »

what does anyone make of tagula?

Tagula is respected by buyers at that level (about 2k) for the cover.Trainers will buy them if you have a nice type. He has a rep for producing race horses. Others in his bracket are Captain Rio (recommended) and Alhaarth. Tag and Alhaarth are old boys so there may be fertility issues. These 3 have all produced grp 1 winners. Only a small % have sired a grp 1 winner so if the mare is starting out and you don't want to go broke finding out if she's any good one of the above would fit the bill.

If she has a flashy pedigree you could use a first season sire and you could get a away with it. If you go with one (punt) that has it's first crop to race this year or next and they bomb (as most do) than your foal will bomb too. For a new mare this is the worst option and the cover will cost you more. A good way of judging whether a stallion is a good option is to ask yourself 'compared to other mares that this stallion has covered how desireable would my foal be in comparision to his other foals'.

If you decide to punt Vale of York covered a decent bunch and he is the price range.

UrbanSea

Hunthe I know a small minority get group 1 winners but for a horse who was standing at 7 or 8k wouldn't his return still be considered quite poor. At a cheaper fee than him I'd be interested in Arakan, am I right in thinking he covered the biggest book in the UK and Ireland last year? Pity Peintre Celebre is quite expensive at 10k

kfallon

First Mastercraftsman colt entered at the Curragh on Sunday for A P O'Brien. Intense Focus has a debutante also at the 5 day stage

UrbanSea

She'd need to be good to beat colts so early on, I'm looking forward to seeing the Fastnet Rock if he stays in, not sure if they are quite dependant on good ground though