Sea Shepherd

andy_g wrote: »

If within a few feet of the blast yes harpoon has a depth of about 10ft after it hits the water shock wave wouldnt be an issue beyond 25ft and would stun the animal not kill it outright.

So there for when tied to the side of a whaling vessel drowns itself or drowns on its own blood! Still humane enough for ya?

The grenade goes of after it has penetrated the whale 60-70cm,and if hit in the chest as Norwegian whalers do,the whale will be killed instantly from the shock wave created by the impact and blast from the grenade.
So yes humane enough for me.

In 2008, 535 whales were taken by 27 vessels. Four whales (0.7 %) were reported lost after they were dead. No whales were reported to have escaped wounded. During the season one inspector from the Directorate of Fisheries were present at sea and on land. No violations of national regulations for hunting methods were reported.

andy_g wrote: »

Looking at the design of these harpoons they have a striker percussion cap thats set to detonate at 15 foot pounds thats only enough force to explode on impact with the water.

Also were these "observers" from Norway?

Seems were going off topic as the original topic is sea shepherd not the penthrite grenade.

Maybe you should consider joining them this year on their annual whale hunt,I am sure they would be delighted with your new scientific data.;)

Only minke whales (Balaenoptera acutorostrata) are hunted in Norway. The hunt is conducted from small (50 feet) or medium sized (60-120 feet) fishing boats specially rigged for whaling in the spring and summer season. The boats are equipped with 50 mm or 60 mm harpoon guns with corresponding harpoons and rifles with full metal jacket, round nosed bullets of calibres 9.3, .375 and .458 (minimum calibre 9.3 mm) as back- up weapon. The harpoon is carrying a penthrite grenade (Whale grenade-99) loaded with 30 g pressed penthrite as explosive. A charge of 52 g of gunpowder is used to launch the harpoon. The detonation is triggered at a depth of 65 cm inside the whale body by a twin hook connected to the firing pin with an elastic synthetic cord. The harpoon line, the fore-runner, is made of elastic materials like nylon or other synthetic materials and runs through a spring system to a winch to haul the whale in to the boat after it has been shot.
The whale is shot from the side whenever possible and the harpoon is usually aimed at the thorax region. A minke whale that is deadly hit will immediately stop swimming and roll onto its back or pull out some of the harpoon line before stopping. A whale that is still alive maintains normal position in the water and dives actively and resurfaces to blow. If the whale does not immediately turn over on its back it is hauled to the boat using the winch immediately after being shot and the gunner will be ready to fire the back-up rifle in the brain if necessary when it is alongside the boat. Many hunters fire a round as a matter of routine.
Research
From 1981 to 2004 three major research programmes to improve and assess the hunting and killing methods for minke whales were conducted in Norway. The goal of these programmes was to:

1) develop hunting methods and improved gear to improve the animal welfare associated with the hunting and killing of the whales, and also to improve the hunter’s safety; and
2) verify the results above by a very close monitoring of the hunt and sampling of time to
death (TTD) data, post-mortem examinations of the carcass and neuropathological
studies of brains from hunted (68) whales; and
3) develop and implement automated electronic monitoring technology for the
Norwegian minke whale hunt

The results of this research were new inventions of hunting gear, development and implementation of new weapon-technology, improved hunting techniques and routines, establishment of obligatory education and training of hunters and inspectors, plus an electronic monitoring system (Blue Box). In addition, the way the whales died was verified by the post-mortem examinations of the carcass and neuropathological studies of brains. Four types of whale grenades with the potent supersonic explosive penthrite were developed: two harpoon grenades used for minke whales, one for fin and sei whale hunt in Iceland, and one grenade for the traditional darting gun used by traditional subsistence hunters of bowhead whales in Alaska.

Data of results of different killing methods were collected for 5,552 minke whales from 1981 to 2002. The statistics show a considerable increase in instantaneous death rate (IDR). The time to death (TTD) was reduced accordingly and losses of wounded animals became less than one per thousand during 2000 to 2002
During 1997 to 1999 a new grenade (Whale grenade-99) with an improved and reversible safety and arming (SAM) was developed and tested. The penthrite charge was increased to 30 g of pressed penthrite and the weight was reduced 40 %, which considerably improved the balance of the gun and the harpoon ballistics.

The new grenade was introduced in the hunt on all vessels from the 2000 season on. Trained veterinarians and whale biologists collected TTD from all whales hunted during three seasons. The TTD was recorded as the moment at which cessation of flipper movement, relaxation of the mandible, or sinking without any active movement occurred, which may include periods when the animal may have been unconscious or already dead. The results for the 1,667 minke whales
caught in the three seasons (2000-2002) are shown in Fig. 2. The statistical analysis showed an IDR of about 80 % with no statistically significant difference between the three seasons. The results also showed that the whales died instantaneously or very quickly when the grenade hits and detonates centrally in the thorax or near the central nervous system. Detonation in the cranial part of the abdomen or in musculature dorsal to the thorax also resulted in instantaneous or very rapid death, but the effect of such hits was less reliable.

And since you already trying to get away from the discussion about sea Shepard and whaling,I think they are closely related though.

And the observers for the fisheries here in Ireland,are they Irish?


Why do you think Norway is allowed to do commercial whaling!
Because they have 25 years of reasearch to proof that whales can be killed humanely within 1 minutes(IWC),and that it's sustainable.
I don't think anyone can deny that,except for you maybe.:rolleyes:

andy_g wrote: »

So how does that equate to a sea shepherd discussion? oh wait it doesnt plus a hollow point would be more human than a fmj round.

What is Sea Shepard protesting against?oh wait can it be Whaling??
And is a 50cal more human than a 5.56mm:rolleyes:

andy_g wrote: »

actually no as 5.56 with hollow point would do more damage than a .50cal 50 doesnt break up on impact and thus is more a hard target round. while anything up to 7.92 is better for soft targets.

As in all other warfare or hunting,it's all about shot placement.
some have survived both with 50 cal or 5.56 in the leg,but in the chest or head,50 cal wins all the way.
and with body armour,it will stop. 5.56mm,but not a 50 cal.
And with this ammo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211

You are not even safe behind walls;)

But I think this thread is going a bit outside Sea Shepard and Whaling at the moment.
I am sure they would love this one over in the shooting thread;)or the military thread.

andy_g wrote: »

The round you linked to is obsolete since 99. even so the penetrating power of a .50 fmj the animal wouldnt even notice it as its a supersonic round not subsonic which breaks up on impact giving a human kill.

So why exactly is it that "research" ends up in the fish market? Or is it research of who eats whale meat?

That round is used in Afghanistan today by US and allies.Do you know what a subsonic round is??

When they slaughter other animals for research,do they throw away the remains,or do they use it i wonder?
And its probably a research of who eats it or not too,but with all the lies and bad propaganda that has been in media the last 30 years i am not surprised.
Have you ever tried it,i had some last week.i still have 5 kg in the freezer if you would like to try some;)

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

One would assume it would make more sense to dump the carcass back into the local environment where local creatures can benefit from it. It would also lend more credence to the notion that it is actual research rather than simply commercial whaling in disguise.

I don't see lab mice or rats or bunnies or monkeys ending up on the supermarket shelves.

No,i have never seen mice,rats,monkeys or Bunnies in the Shelves at Tesco:rolleyes:
However burgers with horsemeat seem very common.;)
And you say it would look better to dump the remains overboard:eek:
That would be the same as dumping fish

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/conservation/8356141/Fishermen-to-be-banned-from-dumping-dead-fish-in-sea-under-EU-plans.html

And the reason why dumping anything overboard is bad,is quite obvious;)

andy_g wrote: »

On a lighter note.



So well done to all the crews this year.

Now its just to wait for the Norwegian whale sesong to start in May,and some fresh whale eat in the freezer again;)
Maybe Sea Shepard is coming by for a visit?:D:D

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not really, the fish should be used, or better yet not caught in the first place by improving technique and banning the more outdated and destructive methods but there is little interest in addressing that same as there is little interest in stopping the Japs from what is actually commercial whaling badly disguised.

The odd whale carcass though is an entire eco system in itself and would be beneficial to the environment in so much as keeping it and shipping it half way round the world isn't. Of course it's not the odd one but 200 odd and that's probably a bit wasteful but then again I can't fathom what research they do with 200 dead whales a year in the first place.

No it's actually better for the environment to eat whale meat,than beef or chicken.

So eat a whale and save the planet;)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/03/03/us-climate-whaling-idUSEIC37493020080303

andy_g wrote: »

Ah sure eat whale meat get poisoned http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=packaged-whale-meat-in-ja

And here is one as you like to use wiki so much long range shooter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_meat#Toxicity

I'll post links if required.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger;):D:D
Whale meat only contains 0.15mg mercury per kilo,and that's way within the limit of 0.5mg mercury per kilo,set for all seafood sold in Norway,according to latest research.
And even if it contains more,it's perfectly safe to eat,unless you eat it every day.
A few times a month is perfectly safe.
Have you ever heard of anyone die or get ill from eating it?its nothing worse than horse meat in burgers.
The anti whalers are off course trying there best to find a way to lie about whaling.